Four-year Ferrari investigation handed over to CONI

[Big Doopie]

i do remember being vilified on these threads for calling scarponi a serial doper who should have long been banned for life.

the guy cannot live without the juice.

same goes for Alberto Contador the "most exciting, attacking, and loved" super doper of the entire peloton!

oh well, it's tough to always be right.

 

[Benotti69]

i do remember be vilified on these threads for calling scarponi a serial doper who should have long been banned for life.

the guy cannot live without the juice.

same goes for Alberto Contador the "most exciting, attacking, and loved" super doper of the entire peloton!

oh well, it's tough to always be right.

shooting fish in a barrel, shooting fish in a barrel...........

 

[Big Doopie]

i always said that the worst thing that armstrong did was the example he set to other riders.

they knew he was -- at best -- an average one-day rider.

ferrari made him a seven-time TDF "winner". that was literally the best advertisement for ferrari's services that could possibly be.

man, it is so tough to be me.

 

[icefire]

Bileka visited Ferrari a couple of times, just getting generic training advice, before he got in the juice.

I don't think anyone who wasn't already doping or at the very least seriously considering doping would work with Ferrari even just to get training advice, but the price ranges and Bileka's testimony suggests that yes, generic training advice was *also* part of Ferraris' business.

Looking at his achievements this might be the case of JJRojas

 

[Big Doopie]

shooting fish in a barrel, shooting fish in a barrel...........

lol.

from the guy who spends hours attacking the wrong people, when it was always clear who the serial unrepentant dopers were...

astana, katusha, etc..., etc... LOL!

apparently other teams (much more wicked according to benotti!) managed to gain the services of il mito with interstellar phone service that the Italian police are unaware of.

rotfflmfao!!

 

[Hugh Januss]

lol.

from the guy who spends hours attacking the wrong people, when it was always clear who the serial unrepentant dopers were...

astana, katusha, etc..., etc... LOL!

apparently other teams (much more wicked according to benotti!) managed to gain the services of il mito with interstellar phone service that the Italian police are unaware of.

rotfflmfao!!

You are not really saying that you think these names represent anything more than the tiniest tip of the doping iceberg and that because nobody from oh say Sky, BMC, or Garmin are involved in this that is somehow proof that they are clean?

 

[Big Doopie]

Armstrong payed Ferrari 100k...

um...

it was reported many years before that in French Velo Magazine that Armstrong payed $800,000 per year for exclusive rights (in cycling) to il mito.

$800,000 which would seem to make much more sense, since he was the only one who could easily afford such a sum since he was making so much money off of the other mito (myth) -- the cancer shield.

 

[Big Doopie]

You are not really saying that you think these names represent anything more than the tiniest tip of the doping iceberg and that because nobody from oh say Sky, BMC, or Garmin are involved in this that is somehow proof that they are clean?

but to equate let's say fdj with astana is mind-bogglingly stupid and uninformed.

it is false-equivalency and anti-intellectualism in a nutshell.

in other words.

just. plain. stupid.

and dishonest.

 

[hrotha]

i do remember being vilified on these threads for calling scarponi a serial doper who should have long been banned for life.

I call BS on this. Let's see some quotes - I very much doubt anybody in the Clinic took issue with your calling Scarponi a doper (that's always been obvious to everybody), so you must be misrepresenting it.

 

[Big Doopie]

I call BS on this. Let's see some quotes - I very much doubt anybody in the Clinic took issue with your calling Scarponi a doper (that's always been obvious to everybody), so you must be misrepresenting it.

i'm not doing your homework for you.

people even called me a freakin' racist for it.

lol.

 

[Benotti69]

lol.

from the guy who spends hours attacking the wrong people, when it was always clear who the serial unrepentant dopers were...

astana, katusha, etc..., etc... LOL!

apparently other teams (much more wicked according to benotti!) managed to gain the services of il mito with interstellar phone service that the Italian police are unaware of.

rotfflmfao!!

Would love to see the evidence of people defending Scarponi and Contador on here, heck even Flo knows Contador is a doper!!!

Imagine all those teams managed to beat Ferrari riders, the guy who won 7 TdFs in a row.......they were doing it on panyagua....

 

[Hugh Januss]

but to compare let's say fdj with astana is mind-boglingly stupid and uninformed.

it is false-equivalency and anti-intellectualism in a nutshell.

in other words.

just. plain. stupid.

Yeah, good cherry pick. Let's compare them to oh say Movistar, Sky, BMC, Omega Pharma, Saxo, Belkin, Trek, Katusha, Lampre, Lotto, Europcar, Garmin. What is stupid and uninformed is to, in 2014, still insist that "never tested positive" is any sort of proof at all of being clean.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I call BS on this. Let's see some quotes - I very much doubt anybody in the Clinic took issue with your calling Scarponi a doper (that's always been obvious to everybody), so you must be misrepresenting it.

Some guy was probably Trolling him, nobody could have been serious.

 

[B_Ugli]

Pretty dissappointed with Cooksons comments on this whole affair on CN. I know the guy has to have a measured response but I would have expected him to have some stronger words in the event that the alleged evidence turns out to be correct from CONI.

Perhaps it's because the claims that cycling is getting cleaner have just been debunked in one fail swoop by GDS's reporting.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Yeah, good cherry pick. Let's compare them to oh say Movistar, Sky, BMC, Omega Pharma, Saxo, Belkin, Trek, Katusha, Lampre, Lotto, Europcar, Garmin. What is stupid and uninformed is to, in 2014, still insist that "never tested positive" is any sort of proof at all of being clean.

Garmin is clean ,,,,,,JV said so.

"chapeau vino"

 

[Big Doopie]

Yeah, good cherry pick. Let's compare them to oh say Movistar, Sky, BMC, Omega Pharma, Saxo, Belkin, Trek, Katusha, Lampre, Lotto, Europcar, Garmin. What is stupid and uninformed is to, in 2014, still insist that "never tested positive" is any sort of proof at all of being clean.

ah, so you will admit that somehow fdj is different and suffered through some lean years against the serial dopers. but now they have a rider who finishes third in the tdf.

did pinot suddenly start visiting ferrari?

or is it simply more logical than that? think about it (I know logic is not something that many of these boards possess).

and what about europcar and garmin? really can you seriously equate them to astana? seriously?

lol.

seriously lol.

again in an attempt to appear like a forum board savant you all want to be able to point to how you said long ago that they ALL doped. and equally.

and, unfortunately. you are simply wrong.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Pretty dissappointed with Cooksons comments on this whole affair on CN. I know the guy has to have a measured response but I would have expected him to have some stronger words in the event that the alleged evidence turns out to be correct from CONI.

Perhaps it's because the claims that cycling is getting cleaner have just been debunked in one fail swoop by GDS's reporting.

At this point words are useless. Action is needed.
Lets see if Cookson can deliver.

 

[Big Doopie]

Imagine all those teams managed to beat Ferrari riders, the guy who won 7 TdFs in a row.......they were doing it on panyagua....

um, you do realize - right? - that some people are naturally more talented than others, right?

and, you do realize that one way to overcome being less talented is in fact to cheat?

I mean, right?

And, you do realize that when certain elements have been put in place to make cheating more difficult or more limited, true talent can then (sporadically) win out over the much less talented (and now cheating-LIMITED)?

I mean, right? You do in fact follow that simple logic?

And that the serial cheaters - who literally know no other way to succeed - will continually seek out a venue in which they can find access to whatever cheating is possible:

i.e. Scarponi - coming off how many bans? - choosing to ride for vino-astana-il mito.

i.e. clentadoppucci - seeking out doping teams, doctors and ds's one after the other.

i mean, do you really fail to grasp this very simple logic or are you just trolling me?

here's another perfect example:

full epo program chiappucci (middling talent rider) leaves clean lemond (natural supreme talent) 50+ mins behind at sestriere in 1992.
clean lemond (natural supreme talent) pulls back 12 mins on doped (but not super-doped) chiappucci (middling talent rider) during the 1990 TDF.

 

[webbie146]

um, you do realize - right? - that some people are naturally more talented than others, right?

and, you do realize that one way to overcome being less talented is in fact to cheat?

I mean, right?

And, you do realize that when certain elements have been put in place to make cheating more difficult or more limited, true talent can then (sporadically) win out over the much less talented (and now cheating-LIMITED)?

I mean, right? You do in fact follow that simple logic?

And that the serial cheaters - who literally know no other way to succeed - will continually seek out a venue in which they can find access to whatever cheating is possible:

i.e. Scarponi - coming off how many bans? - choosing to ride for vino-astana-il mito.

i.e. clentadoppucci - seeking out doping teams one after the other.

i mean, do you really fail to grasp this very simple logic or are you just trolling me?

You do realize that u can have all the talent in the world but a clean athlete won't win a 3-week GT? You need talent + bags.

You're haematocrit drops around 2 points per week. Sorry maybe a hugely talented athlete can win a 1-day race, or maybe even a 1 week race, but 3 weeks sorry.. Won't happen

Drop the attitude dude

 

[DirtyWorks]

Pretty dissappointed with Cooksons comments on this whole affair on CN. I know the guy has to have a measured response but I would have expected him to have some stronger words in the event that the alleged evidence turns out to be correct from CONI.

Why? His first job as the public leader of the UCI, a federation of national federations, is to defend the sport from controversy.

The UCI answers to no one. This too shall pass.

Remember he just claimed that the UCI's anti-doping is "independent." The people the UCI pays, working in the UCI's offices, answering to UCI management are "independent.

He's a much better liar than McQuaid. Still the same UCI.

 

[LaFlorecita]

it seems some people are expecting Contador and Valverde to be on the list. Surely that is not very likely? And we would have heard something about it by now.

 

[Benotti69]

...snipped the fluff.......

And, you do realize that when certain elements have been put in place to make cheating more difficult or more limited, true talent can then (sporadically) win out over the much less talented (and now cheating-LIMITED)?

I mean, right? You do in fact follow that simple logic?

........more fluff........

These guys were caught by an investigation. None of them tested positive.

This investigation was from inside information. Not from anti doping.

So how did the Belgian teams, Dutch, Spanish, American and British Teams beat this team of systematic dopers.

I mean simple logic tells us that anti doping isn't working, so if the other nations did investigations, phone tapping etc they would find the same thing happening.

Right.

 

[Hugh Januss]

ah, so you will admit that somehow fdj is different and suffered through some lean years against the serial dopers. but now they have a rider who finishes third in the tdf.

did pinot suddenly start visiting ferrari?

or is it simply more logical than that? think about it (I know logic is not something that many of these boards possess).

and what about europcar and garmin? really can you seriously equate them to astana? seriously?

lol.

seriously lol.

again in an attempt to appear like a forum board savant you all want to be able to point to how you said long ago that they ALL doped. and equally.

and, unfortunately. you are simply wrong.

No, unfortunately you are wrong doping is still the status quo in pro cycling, and even spills over to the amateur ranks.

 

[webbie146]

it seems some people are expecting Contador and Valverde to be on the list. Surely that is not very likely? And we would have heard something about it by now.

They could be waiting to reveal the bigger names later on. It's known Contador worked with Ferrari from 2007 to at least 2010 (Ferrari provided his legal team when he got popped for clen, Contador quickly dropped that lawyer.)

Let's hope he's not on the list though, I'm to big of a fan Hope Nibali is gonna get away unscratched too.

 

[Big Doopie]

You do realize that u can have all the talent in the world but a clean athlete won't win a 3-week GT? You need talent + bags.

You're haematocrit drops around 2 points per week. Sorry maybe a hugely talented athlete can win a 1-day race, or maybe even a 1 week race, but 3 weeks sorry.. Won't happen

Drop the attitude dude

but i agree.

why do you think martin finished "only" seventh in the vuelta but won lombardy and liege.

the fact is:

when blood doping was truly unlimited clean riders would not even win the big one day races and would never even come close to the podium of a GT.

however, now we have wins in the classics and podium in the TDF (admittedly with two big dopers missing). so what has changed?

is it really pinot, peraud and martin who have suddenly got fully charged and are visiting ferrari...even though there is absolutely ZERO factual evidence of it?

or is it more simply explained by limited doping making more talented clean riders a little more competitive and less talented serial dopers just a little more desperate that they are off running to il mito...?

again. simple. logic.

the idea that limitless doping is as rife as it used to be is simply not borne out by the facts.

and i apologize about the attitude. but how would you feel if you had to constantly dumb down your vocabulary in order to be fully understood?