Four-year Ferrari investigation handed over to CONI

[BeagRigh]

Hopefully more to come - this can't be everyone involved.

The most surprising thing about these names is the riders not listed. I was expecting at least a few interesting names; Pirazzi, Evans, etc

 

[McLovin]

The period is 2010-2011, right? So in 2010 Contador was already working with Riis? Both him and Andy? Or Andy was already working with Bruyneel? Or Contador was still working with Bruyneel? Or why Contador it's not into this report? A real soap opera here.
Maybe Riis, still. After all, he made them kiss and make up after the chain incident.

 

[Pentacycle]

What's the significance of Marcato being named?

That he is a rider who is generally liked for his attacking style and panache. And we cycling fans don't like the fact that he's suddenly a doper.

 

[nhowson]

No Cunego? No Pozzovivo? No Aru? Not even Pellizotti?

Lame

What do you mean by lame here?

 

[staubsauger]

The period is 2010-2011, right? So in 2010 Contador was already working with Riis? Both him and Andy? Or Andy was already working with Bruyneel? Or Contador was still working with Bruyneel? Or why Contador it's not into this report? A real soap opera here.
Maybe Riis, still. After all, he made them kiss and make up after the chain incident.

Contador wasn't with Bruyneel anymore and so probably without Ferrari's primary assistance. He wasn't with Riis already. And Astana probably rejoined Ferrari's primary assistance just in 2012.

So his positive in 2010 due to some dilettantism makes pretty much sense.

Still, he brought Bruyneel and Armstrong watches and flowers in 2010. So who knows what was upset and what reality.

 

[McLovin]

So his positive in 2010 due to some dilettantism makes pretty much sense.

You're probably right but still it's hard to believe that a 4 time GT winner and the best GT rider in the world was doping Ricco style for one year.

 

[Benotti69]

I wonder did Ferrari charge more for star riders in order for more exclusivity and more secrecy.

Or are the Italian authorities hiding the stars from prosecution......

 

[Bumeington]

I wonder did Ferrari charge more for star riders in order for more exclusivity and more secrecy.

Or are the Italian authorities hiding the stars from prosecution......

Of course he did, no way every one of those is paying 50,000 euros like Menchov or 100,000 like Vino

 

[webbie146]

I wonder did Ferrari charge more for star riders in order for more exclusivity and more secrecy.

Or are the Italian authorities hiding the stars from prosecution......

Yes that the reason why there are big price differences. Some people ask well why didin't all those guys on the list rip **** apart?

They just got the very basic cheapest program which I think is 15k a year (or less). The best program costs 400k a year and is marketed as beating the biologic passport.

Scarponi was on a higher program during 2011 and got second in the Giro, only beaten by Contador. Considering the fact that Scarponi is not the most talented rider in the world getting second in a GT is great.

The question about Contador, yes he worked with Ferrari from 2007 up to at least 2010.

When he got caught with the clen Contador got a lawyer/defense team from Ferrari. when realizing this could lead to people making a connection between him and Ferrari he quickly dropped that lawyer.

Menchov second place in the 2010 tdf is interesting. Could make it a 1/2 for Ferrari with Contador 1, Menchov second haha

 

[More Strides than Rides]

The point was raised earlier, but how did we get from 90 to 38? Is that really 20 teams represented?

If these are all of the cyclists, is there a list of remaining athletes from others sports available, or expected to be available?

 

[@NL_LeMondFans]

If I was a clean rider... I'd say "No matter what I say, it's been said before by alledged dopers... Let's face it, most people already have an opinion on what I do and what I do not do. All I can do is show you the data and let people work on that opinion..."

In fact, I'd like to hear a rider say these words.

 

[webbie146]

If I was a clean rider... I'd say "No matter what I say, it's been said before by alledged dopers... Let's face it, most people already have an opinion on what I do and what I do not do. All I can do is show you the data and let people work on that opinion..."

In fact, I'd like to hear a rider say these words.

wrong topic buddy

 

[frenchfry]

Tru Dat .
If the UCI handled drug busts like Fifa etc then cycling's rep would not be half as bad. The UCI seem to have a great gift in making Cycling look like its the only sport that dopes. Zidane his still regarded a hero yet Armstrong his a nasty cheater.
Both doped and both reached the pinnacle of their sport.

Apart from the head-but t (but with tt was censored), Zidane is a pretty mild mannered guy. No news of him destroying the lives of innocent people.

On the other hand, he was certainly as well advised as Armstrong with regards to doping.

 

[frenchfry]

Yes that the reason why there are big price differences. Some people ask well why didin't all those guys on the list rip **** apart?

They just got the very basic cheapest program which I think is 15k a year (or less). The best program costs 400k a year and is marketed as beating the biologic passport.

Scarponi was on a higher program during 2011 and got second in the Giro, only beaten by Contador. Considering the fact that Scarponi is not the most talented rider in the world getting second in a GT is great.

The question about Contador, yes he worked with Ferrari from 2007 up to at least 2010.

When he got caught with the clen Contador got a lawyer/defense team from Ferrari. when realizing this could lead to people making a connection between him and Ferrari he quickly dropped that lawyer.

Menchov second place in the 2010 tdf is interesting. Could make it a 1/2 for Ferrari with Contador 1, Menchov second haha

The report says that Menchov only paid Ferrari 50K/year, if he wasn't so cheap he could have at least one TDF "win".

 

[B_Ugli]

The best program costs 400k a year and is marketed as beating the biologic passport

And herein lies the biggest problem. Guys like Ferrari and his peers seem to be able to get the most cutting edge info on what the Blood Passport administrators are looking for.

They have to get that info from somewhere or somebody!!

I have believed for a while that guys only test positive due to a mistake, error or outdated information from their Dr. In short the authorities get lucky no more no less.

 

[mrhender]

The point was raised earlier, but how did we get from 90 to 38? Is that really 20 teams represented?

If these are all of the cyclists, is there a list of remaining athletes from others sports available, or expected to be available?

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/12/p...nd-radioshack-suspected-of-systematic-doping/

It is suggested that the final list of riders could be twice as big; another spate of names has not been made public at this point in time, and will likely be released at a later point.

 

[webbie146]

The report says that Menchov only paid Ferrari 50K/year, if he wasn't so cheap he could have at least one TDF "win".

Armstrong payed Ferrari 100k in 2010. His prices went up last few years if you want the best.

Then again Nibali get's payed 4 million a year now by Astana. A 10% investment ain't to bad to stay on top and get the cutting edge stuff.

And herein lies the biggest problem. Guys like Ferrari and his peers seem to be able to get the most cutting edge info on what the Blood Passport administrators are looking for.

They have to get that info from somewhere or somebody!!

I have believed for a while that guys only test positive due to a mistake, error or outdated information from their Dr. In short the authorities get lucky no more no less.

Information from someone on the inside comes in handy when u work with certain compounds like Aicar and such knowing if a new test gets developed.

Beating the blood-paspord you don't really need this kind of information. A good doctor that is specialized in reading blood values will know which parameters are important to keep in check to beat the passport.

 

[frenchfry]

Talansky in 2012:

I feel genuine hatred towards Di Luca. He's a worthless lying scumbag making false statements that hurt the sport I love.

https://twitter.com/andrewtalansky/status/425755309257154560

Funny but as a fully suscribed Di Luca hater I actually had some warm thoughts about him as it appears that he really did share useful information with the authorities. I am sure I will go back to full-on hate soon though.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

I'm not sure I wanted to make it a separate topic, as it will mostly be the same conversation, but what has been bending my mind is the way the level of sophistication in doping totally determines its affects.

While putting more money into the program is mostly about security, it is also about the quality. What was Iglinsky getting in 2012 that he wasn't getting now? (Or was it just a case of motivation?)

Ferrari dopes all of his customers, and I bet he now has some understanding of what kind of athlete would make the best responder. He knows more about periodization, the balance of ingredients, and the safety precautions, to the point where doping is not the icing on the cake of a gifted athlete, it is the whole cake.

 

[BeagRigh]

CN article up with a heavy slant on Astana:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/astana-accused-of-systematic-doping

Some bits I found interesting/noteworthy:

After testing positive for CERA at the 2009 Giro d’Italia, Di Luca gave evidence to Padova investigators on December 14 of that year

Good on Di Luca for giving evidence but that was in 2009. wft was he thinking when he then went back to doping? Please tell me he wasn't stupid enough to go back to Ferrari?!

“Stefano Ferrari says he's spoken to Vinokourov who would like to do a contract for at least 10/12 riders... If this contract comes off with Astana a good earning is gauranteed.” Gazzetta report, apparently quoting the Padova police.

Ouch, that's pretty damning!

... via a bug hidden by police in Dr. Ferrari's camper van.

Interesting, they bugged Ferrari's camper! Given the tests and conversations it is known Lance had it that camper you would think this should be a treasure trove...

 

[pmcg76]

I thought the list was supposed to contain some very surprising names? Like, yawn. Most of those are either old news or no-name riders.

I think the only name that surprised me a little is Rojas.

I said yesterday I had put together a list of 70 names.

Those not on that list were the U-23 riders I didn't know any off.

The names I didn't have were Rojas, Frapporti, Proni, Ardila, Bozic.

I didn't have all the Masciarelli brothers but figured if one were on the list, all 3 would be.

Thought the Vacansoleil rider would be one of the Italians, thus Marcato and as figured, there would be a few Katusha riders, thus Gourov, Rovny.

Some of the missing names would seem to include Armstrong, Garzelli, Pellizotti, Ongarato, Gasparotto, M.Iglinsky, Kascheckin, Ignatiev.

The Padova Manelli raids included Marco Velo, Marco Corti, Ricardo Chiarini & Rafaele Ferrara.

For those who are desperated to see as many named as possible, there is very little cross-over with the Mantova investigation riders so far.

 

[sniper]

CN article up with a heavy slant on Astana:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/astana-accused-of-systematic-doping

Some bits I found interesting/noteworthy:



Good on Di Luca for giving evidence but that was in 2009. wft was he thinking when he then went back to doping? Please tell me he wasn't stupid enough to go back to Ferrari?!

especially odd in light of the fact that doping makes you ride backwards!

in all seriousness, Vino also went back to Ferrari after his 2 year ban. These guys apparently don't know better.
In general I think it shows how big the gains are, compared to the risks. Even if you've been caught previously.
For many it's an easy choice: either go stock the shelves in the local supermarket or continue the fraud and try to make some more millions.
Many of them have already assumed a lifestyle that isn't covered by a 1000 bucks per month salary.

 

[Oldman]

CN article up with a heavy slant on Astana:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/astana-accused-of-systematic-doping

Some bits I found interesting/noteworthy:



Good on Di Luca for giving evidence but that was in 2009. wft was he thinking when he then went back to doping? Please tell me he wasn't stupid enough to go back to Ferrari?!



Ouch, that's pretty damning!



Interesting, they bugged Ferrari's camper! Given the tests and conversations it is known Lance had it that camper you would think this should be a treasure trove...

As I mentioned on the Lance thread...Popo's laptop probably had a lot of interconnections. Stupid is as stupid does.

 

[frenchfry]

I always thought Ferrari was more of a boutique doping doctor, relatively few customers but high fees. Now he seems to have gone high volume - result of losing the Armstrong cash flow?

Are we going to learn anything new about 2009/2010?

 

[nuvolablu]

Rojas (twitter)
Sobre lo publicado hoy: intercambié varios mail con Stefano Ferrari sobre mis entrenamientos. Todo lo demás son rumores sin fundamento
Nada de esto tiene que ver con mi equipo. Espero y deseo que no nos veamos afectados de forma injusta por esta falacia




Marcato: "I have never visited Ferrari"
http://www.cyclingquotes.com/news/marcato_i_have_never_visited_ferrari/