Frank schleck

[argyllflyer]

Is Schleck a chemist? Did he get a degree in his spare time so he could tell which substances have similar chemical structures?

Any diuretic is banned, bar 4. A chemistry degree is irrelevant.

 

[Cycle Chic]

What I found laughable was when Kirby went on a speech about the whole situation and said that when things are being tested for microscopic levels, it gets too messy so in the end nothing should be done and brought up Contador's clenbuterol positive as an example. Can you believe that?

They are both idiots but at least they mentioned it today which was a surprise...and I was just waiting for Kellys 10 second long opinion on the matter. He will NEVER enter the conversation on doping - i wonder why.

You should have posted on the Eurosport Commentary thread under the Pro Cycling forum - pretty sure they read it.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

@Scienceofsport
@dzrgreg It doesn't,that's the strange thing. In terms of blood doping,a diuretic would only highlight it! It's almost an UNMASKING agent

 

[BroDeal]

Any diuretic is banned, bar 4. A chemistry degree is irrelevant.

Really? Your average pro knows what substances are chemically similar to other substances and, assuming that the labels are even correct, can navigate a morass of trade names being used for substances?

 

[Catwhoorg]

Any professional sportsman shouldn't be ingesting a drug (or any supplement) without knowing exactly what it is.

The "other substances with a similar chemical structure or similar biological effects" appears several times in the WADA list to at least try to keep one step ahead of dopers.

Methyl-PEDbase is banned, use ethyl-PEDbase then when that is banned use propyl-PEDbase.

Or have the catch all, methyl-PEDbase and substances with a similar chemical structure

 

[airstream]

If it's a subversion inside of the team, the likelihood of which we cannot exclude, I'm afraid the Schlecks can quit cycling. I'm try to base on sound logic. What could have Frank won in the Tour? Getting top 10? - It's no use with Zubeldia and Kloden as captains. To win the stage? - It's highly unlikely considering his shape. Juicing up in order to take a stage would have been insanity. It seemed like he had the only goal — to get to Paris and forget about this season.

 

[ManInFull]

How often does the B sample come back negative? Regardless of how you feel about Frank, if the sample comes back negative that would be both good and bad for him. The bad being that he had to leave the Tour.

 

[Oldman]

How often does the B sample come back negative? Regardless of how you feel about Frank, if the sample comes back negative that would be both good and bad for him. The bad being that he had to leave the Tour.

He still has to prove he was "poisoned". Considering his relative position in the GC who would have wanted that? Horner, so he could quit waiting for him?

 

[Catwhoorg]

How often does the B sample come back negative? Regardless of how you feel about Frank, if the sample comes back negative that would be both good and bad for him. The bad being that he had to leave the Tour.

Less than 1% of the time. (from WADA data summaries)

 

[blackcat]

He still has to prove he was "poisoned". Considering his relative position in the GC who would have wanted that? Horner, so he could quit waiting for him?

KGB and Katusha


Viktor Yushchenko

Alexander Litvinenko

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

If it's a subversion inside of the team, the likelihood of which we cannot exclude, I'm afraid the Schlecks can quit cycling. I'm try to base on sound logic. What could have Frank won in the Tour? Getting top 10? - It's no use with Zubeldia and Kloden as captains. To win the stage? - It's highly unlikely considering his shape. Juicing up in order to take a stage would have been insanity. It seemed like he has the only goal — to get to Paris and forget about this season.

He was highly motivated to win a stage according to Philippe Maertens. *shrugs*

 

[Epicycle]

Less than 1% of the time. (from WADA data summaries)

And most of those were probably EPO tests, which historically have required more subjectivity to determine whether a sample is positive or not.

 

[Christian]

Well I know that (or at least I like to think that) many people have been waiting for my reaction to this incident. First off, let me say that my silence so far was only partially due to my surprise, but mostly to the fact that I was on a short trip in the beginning of this week where I didn't have internet access and only returned today.

My official statement:

This morning a text message reached me, saying Fränk Schleck had been tested positive. Naturally, I was deeply surprised and saddened. I have since been able to gather superficial information on the nature of the drug, yet not a sufficient amount to form a well-informed opinion on the matter. I shall therefore not comment on the likelyhood of Fränk Schleck's guilt or innocence.

All I can do is expose to you my general stance on doping suspicions, regardless of the identity of the accused, which one might define as optimistic. In cases where there is little, contradictory or bizarre evidence, and where there is an alternate explanation which seems at least somewhat plausible, I acknowlegde the theoretical validity of the non-doping alternative. This is such a case, the 2008 payments were such a case and Alberto Contador's positive for clenbuterol was such a case. You can see the reason why I don't post much in the clinic.

However, while acknowledging the theoretical possibility of two options, I think it is only human to attribute a larger likelyhood to one than to another. As I mentioned above, I feel not yet well-informed enough to form such an opinion on this specific case. I shall do that in due time.

Sincerely,

Christian

 

[ElChingon]

How often does the B sample come back negative? Regardless of how you feel about Frank, if the sample comes back negative that would be both good and bad for him. The bad being that he had to leave the Tour.

Just happened last year with Klobolev (sp?). Klobolev is racing again less than a year after that incident. So its possible. Not saying it will either, just that it has happened before.

 

[maltiv]

Well I know that (or at least I like to think that) many people have been waiting for my reaction to this incident. First off, let me say that my silence so far was only partially due to my surprise, but mostly to the fact that I was on a short trip in the beginning of this week where I didn't have internet access and only returned today.

My official statement:

This morning a text message reached me, saying Fränk Schleck had been tested positive. Naturally, I was deeply surprised and saddened. I have since been able to gather superficial information on the nature of the drug, yet not a sufficient amount to form a well-informed opinion on the matter. I shall therefore not comment on the likelyhood of Fränk Schleck's guilt or innocence.

All I can do is expose to you my general stance on doping suspicions, regardless of the identity of the accused, which one might define as optimistic. In cases where there is little, contradictory or bizarre evidence, and where there is an alternate explanation which seems at least somewhat plausible, I acknowlegde the theoretical validity of the non-doping alternative. This is such a case, the 2008 payments were such a case and Alberto Contador's positive for clenbuterol was such a case. You can see the reason why I don't post much in the clinic.

However, while acknowledging the theoretical possibility of two options, I think it is only human to attribute a larger likelyhood to one than to another. As I mentioned above, I feel not yet well-informed enough to form such an opinion on this specific case. I shall do that in due time.

Sincerely,

Christian

Woah, did RadioShack's PR team write the statement for you?

Seriously though, must suck to have one's favourite rider getting caught, particularly when he's from your country. I hope you won't let it ruin your holiday or whatever.

 

[iZnoGouD]

but really why the **** would he dope? i just can't get it makes no sense, he doesn't care about the race without his brother, Bruyneel poisened him for sure

 

[BotanyBay]

Funny that most media is focusing on the actual diuretic properties of the drug, as if he'd be using it to lose weight!... Silly boys. We use Clenbuterol for that!

They've totally missed the point that it is primarily used to beat doping tests by quickly flushing that metabolized EPO, HGH and Testosterone out of the urinary tract.

 

[BotanyBay]

As I mentioned above, I feel not yet well-informed enough to form such an opinion on this specific case. I shall do that in due time.

Sincerely,

Christian[/I]

Well, you've had some years to crunch some well-informed data on quite a few others. While you're chewing on Frank's data, you could make use of this time to comment on some others. How about it? Lance? Tyler? Floyd? Contador?

 

[BYOP88]

It's down to the fact that Frank and Andy are liked by the English speaking media. If they weren't then Harmon for example would have no problem bashing him, for evidence of this check out his remarks on Vino(LBL 2010), Ricco(in general), Valverde(OP) and Contador(clen-gate) to name a few compared to those of Armstrong. Also in the English media magazines such as Cycle Sport love them and Frank doesn't get any crap for his dodgy training plans/past, yet articles/pieces about Valverde etc contain snide remarks about their past.

That's why in the (English speaking) media, they haven't had a pop at him and several times today Harmon and Kirby said 'it isn't on the banned list etc', Kirby also said 'It's such a tiny amount, about as much as the Clen that Contador had in his system, but Frank shouldn't be punished for it'.

 

[Christian]

I hope you won't let it ruin your holiday or whatever.

I appreciate the concern, but don't worry I try not to let sports have too much of an effect on my "real life"

Well, you've had some years to crunch some well-informed data on quite a few others. While you're chewing on Frank's data, you could make use of this time to comment on some others. How about it? Lance? Tyler? Floyd? Contador?

Well some of them have admitted to doping use so the question is mute. Lance doping is kind of a generally accepted fact in my understanding. As for Contador I am truly agnostic.

But if you want we can further discuss these cases in the appropriate threads or by PM

 

[ManInFull]

That's why in the (English speaking) media, they haven't had a pop at him and several times today Harmon and Kirby said 'it isn't on the banned list etc', Kirby also said 'It's such a tiny amount, about as much as the Clen that Contador had in his system, but Frank shouldn't be punished for it'.

I didn't catch how Paul and Phil handled it today. But, I suspect that were not very negative on Frank. Frank and Andy are the "People's Champion" of the NBC Sports' cycling broadcasts.

 

[Oldman]

It's down to the fact that Frank and Andy are liked by the English speaking media. If they weren't then Harmon for example would have no problem bashing him, for evidence of this check out his remarks on Vino(LBL 2010), Ricco(in general), Valverde(OP) and Contador(clen-gate) to name a few compared to those of Armstrong. Also in the English media magazines such as Cycle Sport love them and Frank doesn't get any crap for his dodgy training plans/past, yet articles/pieces about Valverde etc contain snide remarks about their past.

That's why in the (English speaking) media, they haven't had a pop at him and several times today Harmon and Kirby said 'it isn't on the banned list etc', Kirby also said 'It's such a tiny amount, about as much as the Clen that Contador had in his system, but Frank shouldn't be punished for it'.

That's the kind of bullsh*t attitude that continues the lie. There is absolutely no reason he should have any of it in his system which is the point of the test. While it may not "be on the list" it's cousin drugs are and the regulations are phrased around the intent to use because designer versions of almost any drug emerge prior to ability to test. Frank's got some 'splainin' to due, Lucy.

 

[VeloGirl]

I am confused.

Quotes by Andy on Frank's positive...

"This is a huge blow for us"
"...we train together all the time, we are preparing together all the time, we race together all the time..."
"And I can tell you and you repeat that we have never taken anything"

Andy does realize he and Frank are separate people, right? Frank returned a positive, not Andy.

Did Andy pitch in money for Dr Fuentes as well?

 

[ManInFull]

Andy does realize he and Frank are separate people, right? Frank returned a positive, not Andy.

Did Andy pitch in money for Dr Fuentes as well?

Neither Frank nor Andy would do anything like that. Only riders like Contador, riders who are willing to submit to Lance and who don't speak English very well, would do something like that.

 

[VeloGirl]

If Frank's A sample comes back positive, does that mean Andy's B sample comes back positive?