Froome ignorance, he could always TT and climb

[boomcie]

join us Boomcie!

These are my conditions:
I will need to be Don and will need a substantial and steady income.
Only then will I sell myself out.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

A lot of riders without great pedigree finished ahead of those three.

Cobo, Kessiakoff, Poels, Seeldraeyers, Pardilla, Roche himself, Lagutin, Majka, Dessel, among 31 other not particularly notable names all finished ahead of Scarponi and Anton.

Scarponi and Anton should face more questions about their performances than the above riders.

Cobo has won mountain stages of two GTs, top 10ed the Vuelta and won País Vasco.
Kessiakoff has a top 10 at Romandie, won the Österreichrundfahrt by stomping the field on Kitzbüheler Horn and has finished not in the top 31, but in the top 10 of mountain stages at Grand Tours prior to this Vuelta.
Poels has come 2nd in the Tour de l'Ain twice in a row now.
Seeldraeyers has won the white jersey at the Giro.
Pardilla has won the Vuelta a Madrid, podiumed the Volta a Portugal and Österreichrundfahrt, Vuelta a la Rioja (when it was still a stage race) and Circuito Montáñes.
Roche has been top 10 in the Vuelta before and top 15-20 in other GTs.

All of the above have shown more recently than Froome. And as a result all of their performances have not been as surprising. We've always known that Froome can climb reasonably and do a pretty decent TT; but those other guys you named have done it with more on the line and achieved better results from it more recently too.

Until last weekend, when Froome took a huge leap forward.

If you took just his 2008 Tour performances in isolation, and his 2011 Vuelta performances in isolation, it looks like pretty solid forward progress. But he hasn't done much that's warranted the feeling that he has been progressing like that; he's gone in one fell swoop from "reasonable climber and TTer who could make a good domestique in the mountain stages and get a decent GC at a .HC or .1 race" to "guy dropping GC contenders on the climbs and beating Wiggins and Cancellara in the ITTs".

That's why it's surprising. Not because he's got here from where he was when he showed promise back with Barloworld - but because he's got here from being memorable for pretty much nothing in the last two and a half years, then suddenly this.

I remember him doing a Taaramäe on San Luca in the '09 Giro though.

 

[hatcher]

Poorly worded by me.

The comparison was their pedigree compared to Anton, Scarponi, and Rodriguez, not to Froome. It was hugely surprising that Froome finished ahead of them, but it becomes less surprising when it's Froome + 29 or however many others finishing ahead of Anton and Scarponi,

My point was the performances of Anton, Scarponi, and to a lesser extent Rodriguez were so poor that it is pointless to use them as comparisons.

That Froome was climbing with the front group was of course a surprise, but it becomes less surprising when you realise the front group wasn't the above three riders, but instead was Mollema, Martin, Wiggins, Nibali, Kessiakoff.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

no, Froome in 2008 Queen Stage at TDF. he was with the front group over all passes.

This is indeed a natural progression had he been gifted the favoured son status of a national, say, a Bauke Mollema.

Does anyone raise an eyebrow at Porte.

Froome is much classier than Porte.

No one cares about Porte's lack of history.

Froome has been put on ice for a while because of woes at Barloworld then injuries. Otherwise, everyone would talk of this putative yet specious natural progression like Dan Martin and Tony Martin and anyone with a surname named Martin.

HELLO!?!?!

Mollema won the Tour l'Avenir. The biggest U23 stage-race + The Circuito Montanes, one of the most important stage-races for U23 riders.
He;s been a major talent all his career and had much, much more to go with than Froome.

Take off your Froome glasses

 

[blackcat]

HELLO!?!?!

Mollema won the Tour l'Avenir. The biggest U23 stage-race + The Circuito Montanes, one of the most important stage-races for U23 riders.
He;s been a major talent all his career and had much, much more to go with than Froome.

Take off your Froome glasses

Froome won what I believe was the Regioni Queen, which is Italy's Avenir b4 BioGiro.

He was 22 in the Tour, riding with the leaders thru the Queen Stage. Read the reports of that stage.

Check his chronos out that TDF as a 22yo.

He could have been riding that Avenir with Gesink, and then Mollema. That is context.

 

[greenedge]

It's odd as he was not even supposed to be support for Wiggins in the mountains, that task went to Lokvist, Cioni and Zandio.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

It's odd as he was not even supposed to be support for Wiggins in the mountains, that task went to Lokvist, Cioni and Zandio.

That's because until last weekend all 3 were more proven in the mountains than Froome. Maybe not Zandio (though he did win the Vuelta a Burgos back in '08), but certainly Lövkvist and Cioni had much more mountain pedigree.

However, Froome was always likely to be a mountain domestique, because he's always been a climber. Not an elite one, but a reasonable one. Enough to make a pretty good engine in the slopes. Certainly nothing in his career to date suggested he'd be able to turn into a Szmyd/Niemiec/Navarro type of mountain domestique though, far less a Kashechkin/Piepoli/Rodríguez-at-Caisse kind of secondary GC man/mountain domestique hybrid.

 

[JRanton]

It's odd as he was not even supposed to be support for Wiggins in the mountains, that task went to Lokvist, Cioni and Zandio.

Where did you read that?

 

[Runitout]

I can remember Cavendish riding for the Isle of Man and Froome for Kenya at the 2006 Commonwealth Games, thinking: 'those two will go far'.

Froome's last couple of years have been disappointing, so it's nice to see him riding to potential.

 

[blackcat]

bump this baby

 

[diorgen]

This thread should be moved to the clinic

 

[roundabout]

"He won the hills competition in the Triptyque des Monts et Châteaux. See, he has always been a climber".

 

[Panda Claws]

Meh...

Andy Schleck could top 20 in tour ITT as well.

 

[blackcat]

This thread should be moved to the clinic

poor form, a little generosity pls

 

[roundabout]

I should start a Pellizzotti ignorance thread, or a Sella ignorance thread, or a Scarponi ignorance thread.

These guys actually finished top 20 in a GT in their first pro year at the same age as Froome finished 81st.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I like how one of the big signs that he could podium GTs was that he was in the group with the heads of state at the base of Alpe d'Huez in 2008.

So was Johan van Summeren. If Summie starts burning contenders off the back in the mountains, you bet the thread's going to the clinic and fast.

 

[Havetts]

Sky turning nobodies into climbing goats. Maybe I should apply, ill win the vuelta next year then. Low fat so some marginal gains to be made, plus i am bad at swimming so kerrison could teach me too!!

See you guys on the 2013 Vuelta podium.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

I should start a Pellizzotti ignorance thread, or a Sella ignorance thread, or a Scarponi ignorance thread.

These guys actually finished top 20 in a GT in their first pro year at the same age as Froome finished 81st.

Good point.

 

[hrotha]

Froome ignorance thread ignorance, this thread was always laughable.

 

[element]

He's clearly a lot leaner than he was even back in 2009. If he was capable of those results as a 22 year old in the tour, it's not inconceivable that he could be doing what he's doing now with good health, lower weight, altitude training, and a more structured race program.

- 2009

- 2012

 

[SafeBet]

He's clearly a lot leaner than he was even back in 2009. If he was capable of those results as a 22 year old in the tour, it's not inconceivable that he could be doing what he's doing now with good health, lower weight, altitude training, and a more structured race program.

And snail fever.

 

[Caruut]

Why is it okay to have a thread proclaiming cleanliness in this section?

 

[roundabout]

This reminds me of the fat Riis - skinny Riis picture comparison I saw.

Sky do seem to have figured something that nobody else can - weight loss (!) and altitude training (!!).

 

[hrotha]

He's clearly a lot leaner than he was even back in 2009. If he was capable of those results as a 22 year old in the tour, it's not inconceivable that he could be doing what he's doing now with good health, lower weight, altitude training, and a more structured race program.

What Tour results? He did OKish in a couple of stages. Whoa.

 

[roundabout]

23 year old.