ScienceIsCool said:
Alpe73 said:
red_flanders said:
Parker said:
Ok, let's have some context here. Froome is going around that corner literally only five seconds after attacking Contador. Of course, he's going superfast.
(Go and look at the stage again - Froome goes from Contador to Quintana in about a minute. There's only one corner like that - I've teed it up for you:
https://youtu.be/XOHBIEh9FSU?t=1974).
Linking to that clip is only helping the argument that he's using a motor. Proof? No. Comically unbelievable acceleration? Yep. Covered many times over.
Red ... pal. You’ve ridden the Ventoux, yourself, right?
And ... you were/are of the caliber (of rider) ... ie. pro or semi pro ... so that you could easily discern the acceleration potential of pro riders.
Just askin, pal.
Well that goes for you too then! You are also uniquely unqualified to discern whether or not that was ridiculous.
PS - It was.
John Swanson
Ok, never been a Pro, but i do ride a bike and i am a bit of a data geek when it comes to power. So i'll have a go at answering wether i thought the accelerations were 'ridiculous' or not...
It’s a while since I’ve watched the whole climb, but here’s what I remember from the video which overlaid his power data to the footage…
Most of the climb was spent between 300 and 400w, a few sections slightly higher reacting to steepening gradients, a few sections slightly lower riding in wheels. All perfectly normal for a rider with a reported threshold of around 420 watts.
Then of course we have the attacks, the cause of all the suspicion. When he drops Contador is a typical example of this and I have just rewatched this clip.
Again, he’s riding along between 300-400w, then bang….mega cadence, mega watts. In my experience, power spikes almost instantly when you attack, it doesn't gradually climb up, unless that's what you're trying to do. He peaks above 1000w for a few brief seconds. There’s then a drop in the wattage, but a very linear drop. 1000, 900, 800, 700, 600,600, 500, 400. All of this over the course of about 20 seconds.
But here’s the thing. I can do that. Most people who ride a bike with any intent can hit 1000w briefly. Admittedly, I’m a good few kg heavier than Froome, and I couldn’t do it two thirds of the way up Ventoux, especially with 200km already in my legs. But then again I’m not a WT pro. But that 20 second burst in terms of pure watts, I can do that.
He then continues to ride at 400-450w for 30secs or so to get on Quintana’s wheel. I couldn’t do that! For me this is what's exceptional, not the acceleration itself.
He repeats these bursts several times over the course of the climb, ultimately to drop Quintana. Now what is exceptional about the performance on the climb is how he recovers from these bursts. He’s able to follow up short intense highly anaerobic efforts, by dropping back down again but continuing to ride at a high tempo averaging between 350-450 watts. I couldn’t do that, I need a recovery period after efforts like that. But then again I’m not a WT pro.
Thing is, this is highly trainable. The ability to clear lactic acid from the legs built up during anaerobic efforts whilst still riding at high tempo close to threshold. It’s the basis of many good training sessions. Over/Under intervals taken to the extreme.
So, Froome on Ventoux 2013 was an exceptional performance. I expect top level athletes to put on exceptional performances. That’s not to say I’m convinced he wasn’t and isn’t doping. Traditional doping promoting incredible powers of short term recovery and endurance? Probable i'd say. I just don’t think what he did was impossible to do without doping and or a motor.
And I’ve never been sold on the motor doping story. That’s just an opinion. We’ve all got one and they’ll continue to be different in the absence of proof.