Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re: Re:

So what do you consider his most ridiculous exploit so far?

His sudden emerge in the 2011 Vuelta
Making fun of his leader in the 2012 Tour
Annihilating everyone in the 2013 Tour
Winning back to back GT's in 2017
Pulling the most unbelievable 80km solo out if his hat to win the 2018 Giro.

It's the 2011 Vuelta. I still can't understand what sort of next-level dope he got on when he emerged as a contender for the overall win and routinely dropped his captain without breaking a sweat. Him beating megadoper Cobo on Pena Cabarga was the biggest red flag I've ever seen in cycling, and that includes Wiggins following Schleck, Armstrong and Contador up most of Ventoux.

That Vuelta confirmed Froome as a superdoper for me in a pretty shocking way. Everything he's done since has been watched with the understanding and expectation that he's brought his doping up yet another level, and I'm just watching to see how blatant he has the balls to be.

Even now, seven years later I can't for the life of me understand what sort of black magic witchcraft Froome got his hands on in 2011 that enabled him to go from pack fodder to superhuman in the blink of an eye. Nothing about it makes any sense, and I really hope we get to hear the truthful story about it one day after Skyfall has finally happened.

Lol word for word what I think. That Vuelta was such a total out of nowhere performance.... Even Louis Meintjes winning the TDF this year would be less surprisingly than that Vuelta performance.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

So what do you consider his most ridiculous exploit so far?

His sudden emerge in the 2011 Vuelta
Making fun of his leader in the 2012 Tour
Annihilating everyone in the 2013 Tour
Winning back to back GT's in 2017
Pulling the most unbelievable 80km solo out if his hat to win the 2018 Giro.

It's the 2011 Vuelta. I still can't understand what sort of next-level dope he got on when he emerged as a contender for the overall win and routinely dropped his captain without breaking a sweat. Him beating megadoper Cobo on Pena Cabarga was the biggest red flag I've ever seen in cycling, and that includes Wiggins following Schleck, Armstrong and Contador up most of Ventoux.

That Vuelta confirmed Froome as a superdoper for me in a pretty shocking way. Everything he's done since has been watched with the understanding and expectation that he's brought his doping up yet another level, and I'm just watching to see how blatant he has the balls to be.

Even now, seven years later I can't for the life of me understand what sort of black magic witchcraft Froome got his hands on in 2011 that enabled him to go from pack fodder to superhuman in the blink of an eye. Nothing about it makes any sense, and I really hope we get to hear the truthful story about it one day after Skyfall has finally happened.

Yep have to agree, the 2011 Vuelta was shocking to watch, the multiple attacks up Pena was beyond absurd and when eveyone thought he’d lose time in the ITT he decided to smash that as well, lol! Right there the sandshoes were tossed aside and the Dawg was born

 

[Jagartrott]

Re:

Reality check, Dumoulin descends at the same speed and he's in pink after Stage 19 and wins the Giro. So yeah, in the truest sense possible, Dumoulin lost the Giro on the descent. Everything else is just cherry-picking time gaps.

He lost a minute in the descent. Now even if he wouldn't lose part of that again later on, because, you know, he would be riding against a slight head wind solo for 70 km after an exhausting stage race, I have not a single doubt he would lose his pink (which he would hold by 20 seconds) in stage 20. Froome looked like he was at day 3 of a GT, Dumoulin like he was at day 20 of a heavy GT. Pinot like he had just done 3 GTs in a row.

 

[brownbobby]

Lol! Forever a Froome fan attempting to muddy the waters. My posts was an example of how ridiculous the original post was. Which I why I used the example with “range” and “roughly”.

Why can’t bots ever stick to reality?

So you manipulate figures to overplay a point and then accuse me of not sticking to reality for pointing it out....I see how it works now

That aside, I do agree that even 4.5w/kg for an amateur for 30 mins is pretty good...but back to the original point...for a WT rider, let alone the greatest GT rider for several generations 390w for about 10 minutes is hardly even trying. Week 3 of a GT or not.

No, I gave you an example to show how nutty the example was.

390w going up hill with 70km still to ride and staying away is absurd, yes. Sure, you can do 390w for 10 minutes at 10% but be caught on the next climb but not Super Dawg. He gains more time, lol!

The table of solo attacks showed that, he was able to out ride with no assistance known dopers.

Says who?

Anyone who understands that there’s only so many times you can ride at >6w/kg in a 3 week period.

Good job he stayed <6w/kg then.

 

[BullsFan22]

I've stayed away from the Froome/clinic stuff in general for some time, but I can't help but be a bit disgusted by the whole thing. If someone has irregular values/levels or failed a test, you at least temporarily suspend that rider until either the B tests are found to be negative or you have proof that he didn't dope or didn't take anything on purpose. I know it's not as black and white like that, particularly in pro cycling, but the Giro organizers did a massive disservice by allowing Froome to start the race.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

To bot, or not to bot, that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles
And by opposing end them. To die—to sleep,
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to: 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep, perchance to dream—ay, there's the rub:

 

[Alpe73]

I've stayed away from the Froome/clinic stuff in general for some time, but I can't help but be a bit disgusted by the whole thing. If someone has irregular values/levels or failed a test, you at least temporarily suspend that rider until either the B tests are found to be negative or you have proof that he didn't dope or didn't take anything on purpose. I know it's not as black and white like that, particularly in pro cycling, but the Giro organizers did a massive disservice by allowing Froome to start the race.

You certainly have a right to that opinion ... one that is shared by many others, I'm sure.

But ... the UCI/WADA rules permitted him to ride in that race ... and many were pleased by that, I'm sure.

Vegni is smiling .... Dawg didn't come to any misfortune ... indeed might have made a few new Italian fans.

Dawg may be punished for doping and lose this title and others ... and so be it. But until then ... he is the rightful and deserved Giro Champion.

 

[macbindle]

https://cyclingtips.com/2018/05/the-secret-pro-an-insiders-view-on-chris-froomes-crazy-giro-attack/

 

[brownbobby]

Re:

To bot, or not to bot, that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles
And by opposing end them. To die—to sleep,
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to: 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep, perchance to dream—ay, there's the rub:

Woah...deep!

Love Froome or Hate Froome?

Choose life or choose death?

Or is it just sport?

 

[DFA123]

Re:

https://cyclingtips.com/2018/05/the-secret-pro-an-insiders-view-on-chris-froomes-crazy-giro-attack/

I found this paragraph particularly interesting:

“Yes, but he was being chased by the ITT world champ” people scream while sharpening their pitchforks. Do you remember who got third at TT worlds? Froome did. And this time they were not on TT bikes, nor in TT skinsuits nor TT positions. Dumoulin was not expecting to be time trialing for 80km. Froome was. Dumoulin was not expecting to have to fuel for an 80km TT. Froome was. Froome probably got the gearing right and made sure he had the most aero set up. And aero counts.

It can be easy to overlook that there are so many non-clinic factors - physical and psychological - which can also create real and decisive differences between riders.

 

[brownbobby]

Re:

https://cyclingtips.com/2018/05/the-secret-pro-an-insiders-view-on-chris-froomes-crazy-giro-attack/

Outrageous. You cant post that kind of BS here :redface:

 

[biker jk]

Re:

https://cyclingtips.com/2018/05/the-secret-pro-an-insiders-view-on-chris-froomes-crazy-giro-attack/

TSP says that Froome gained most of his time gap on the descents which is plainly wrong.

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Re:

https://cyclingtips.com/2018/05/the-secret-pro-an-insiders-view-on-chris-froomes-crazy-giro-attack/

I found this paragraph particularly interesting:

“Yes, but he was being chased by the ITT world champ” people scream while sharpening their pitchforks. Do you remember who got third at TT worlds? Froome did. And this time they were not on TT bikes, nor in TT skinsuits nor TT positions. Dumoulin was not expecting to be time trialing for 80km. Froome was. Dumoulin was not expecting to have to fuel for an 80km TT. Froome was. Froome probably got the gearing right and made sure he had the most aero set up. And aero counts.

It can be easy to overlook that there are so many non-clinic factors - physical and psychological - which can also create real and decisive differences between riders.

so...eh....what was specially aero about Froome's bike that day....what different fuel would you use when riding hard in the mountains versus riding...eh...hard in the mountains (and passed feed zones and with a team car)....and gearing???? The secret pro eh...bloomin' 'eck.... he forget to mention the new saddle...there's a minute right there

 

[gillan1969]

I've stayed away from the Froome/clinic stuff in general for some time, but I can't help but be a bit disgusted by the whole thing. If someone has irregular values/levels or failed a test, you at least temporarily suspend that rider until either the B tests are found to be negative or you have proof that he didn't dope or didn't take anything on purpose. I know it's not as black and white like that, particularly in pro cycling, but the Giro organizers did a massive disservice by allowing Froome to start the race.

You certainly have a right to that opinion ... one that is shared by many others, I'm sure.

But ... the UCI/WADA rules permitted him to ride in that race ... and many were pleased by that, I'm sure.

Vegni is smiling .... Dawg didn't come to any misfortune ... indeed might have made a few new Italian fans.

Dawg may be punished for doping and lose this title and others ... and so be it. But until then ... he is the rightful and deserved Giro Champion.

with rights come responsibilities............but you know that

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Re:

So what do you consider his most ridiculous exploit so far?

His sudden emerge in the 2011 Vuelta
Making fun of his leader in the 2012 Tour
Annihilating everyone in the 2013 Tour
Winning back to back GT's in 2017
Pulling the most unbelievable 80km solo out if his hat to win the 2018 Giro.

It's the 2011 Vuelta. I still can't understand what sort of next-level dope he got on when he emerged as a contender for the overall win and routinely dropped his captain without breaking a sweat. Him beating megadoper Cobo on Pena Cabarga was the biggest red flag I've ever seen in cycling, and that includes Wiggins following Schleck, Armstrong and Contador up most of Ventoux.

That Vuelta confirmed Froome as a superdoper for me in a pretty shocking way. Everything he's done since has been watched with the understanding and expectation that he's brought his doping up yet another level, and I'm just watching to see how blatant he has the balls to be.

Even now, seven years later I can't for the life of me understand what sort of black magic witchcraft Froome got his hands on in 2011 that enabled him to go from pack fodder to superhuman in the blink of an eye. Nothing about it makes any sense, and I really hope we get to hear the truthful story about it one day after Skyfall has finally happened.

motors notwithstanding....

I think that the Counds came up with a last throw of the dice bodybuilding combo which is why we see the weight loss...the rest was sheer luck...obviously some of it will tie in with what we know about the grey areas (e.g. asthma) but I'm sure that the effects of some drug combos won't be known by cyclists, as bodybuilders work in a non-aerobic world and so any efficacy won't be known to those who inhabit the old school aerobic programmes a la armstrong - I say that, there may be numerous studies on the matter but I'm unaware. I think that then was conflated with what SKY were doing anyway in terms of Wiggins and OCC cortisone use and manipulating blood values in training at altitude....once they found another one they ran with him....

 

[dacooley]

let's assume dimoulin would've held off froome, - yes, yes, froome, this reptile doped to the gills whose genetic ceiling is zigzagging on santurio san luca slopes and being 3rd tier rolleur - and would've taken overall win. would it be fairer? nobody cares. it's simple, a rider people like or let's put it tighter tolerate must beat a guy who people despise. though, anyone of us is a great know what defeating a thermonuclear froome takes. in nutshell, doping has a little to do with that with all these rates. if we dislike one we do it to the bitter end no matter what happens, that's it.

 

[glassmoon]

Re:

https://cyclingtips.com/2018/05/the-secret-pro-an-insiders-view-on-chris-froomes-crazy-giro-attack/

off-topic but WTAF?
Even more annoying is that the team has so much money they keep booking the hotel on top of Teide for the whole year and just cancelling a week out, so no one can plan a training camp up there. Talk about dirty plays.

 

[macbindle]

Other mountains are available

Sounds like nonsense to me...

 

[MartinGT]

Re:

https://cyclingtips.com/2018/05/the-secret-pro-an-insiders-view-on-chris-froomes-crazy-giro-attack/

Totally dismisses the dropping of Dawg prior to the Stage 19 though.

Then goes on to slag Bahrain off :lol: Bless him. I bet if Sky did that he wouldnt say a thing.

 

[macbindle]

I don't think that is likely. If you read his previous blogs he was saying Froome should have stayed away from Giro. He isn't pro-Sky, he's pretty even-handed. (anathema to many in the Clinic, I know )

As to ignoring Froome's prior performance in the Giro, yes, he completely ignores it in stark contrast to PY who makes it the axiom of her argument.

 

[MartinGT]

Re:

I don't think that is likely. If you read his previous blogs he was saying Froome should have stayed away from Giro. He isn't pro-Sky, he's pretty even-handed. (anathema to many in the Clinic, I know ;) )

As to ignoring Froome's prior performance in the Giro, yes, he completely ignores it in stark contrast to PY who makes it the axiom of her argument.

:lol:

It would be interesting to see the whole power files for the whole stage and have a look at the stats. Not just the Dawgs FWIW.

 

[topcat]

This is a giro that will not stand the test of time

 

[SafeBet]

So Froome goes solo 80 km from the finish and pulls one of the most insane performances in modern cycling and it's ok(ish).
Bahrain keeps booking his fav hotel on Teide and it's a dirty play.

Yeah, even handed :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[rick james]

Re: Re:

https://cyclingtips.com/2018/05/the-secret-pro-an-insiders-view-on-chris-froomes-crazy-giro-attack/

off-topic but WTAF?
Even more annoying is that the team has so much money they keep booking the hotel on top of Teide for the whole year and just cancelling a week out, so no one can plan a training camp up there. Talk about dirty plays.

Book it for the full year! They’d be cheaper buying the hotel

 

[macbindle]

Re: Re:

I don't think that is likely. If you read his previous blogs he was saying Froome should have stayed away from Giro. He isn't pro-Sky, he's pretty even-handed. (anathema to many in the Clinic, I know ;) )

As to ignoring Froome's prior performance in the Giro, yes, he completely ignores it in stark contrast to PY who makes it the axiom of her argument.

:lol:

It would be interesting to see the whole power files for the whole stage and have a look at the stats. Not just the Dawgs FWIW.

Absolutely. It is my understanding that released power files for other key riders were quite extensive, whereas Froome's was for just one short burst. Is this correct, and has there been an explanation as to why he hasn't released the entire stage?