Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[meat puppet]

Measuring doping and non doping through one's eyes having even significant experience of following is hooey

which is why anyone with a clue relies on statistics and estimates drawn from them.

if froome or anyone else for that matter won with a pVAM predicted time yesterday, I'd have a lot less trouble with their performances, etc.

 

[MizunoMX20]

"Finally cycling found a clean rider who beats all the doped riders' records!!!"

Thank you

I like Ricco's comments he should do more of 'em like that.

 

[zalacain]

Why? He knows that even if he does send all that stuff to WADA they don't have the resources to go through it never mind travelling with the team. Unless he pays them of course.
We have heard so much of his transparency for the last few years yet nothing ever comes of it.
Brailsford is a master of spin. Arguing with him is a waste of time.
A slight aside. Has anybody see The Daily Telegraph? All the comments from this press conference seem to have been removed as soon as some rational arguments appeared which did not support the Sky fans. Or is it just my computer? http://x2t.com/237477

 

[zalacain]

Can't argue with anything Sir Dave said today

Why? He knows that even if he does send all that stuff to WADA they don't have the resources to go through it never mind travelling with the team. Unless he pays them of course.
We have heard so much of his transparency for the last few years yet nothing ever comes of it.
Brailsford is a master of spin. Arguing with him is a waste of time.
A slight aside. Has anybody see The Daily Telegraph? All the comments from this press conference seem to have been removed as soon as some rational arguments appeared which did not support the Sky fans. Or is it just my computer? http://x2t.com/237477

 

[MizunoMX20]

According to Jeremy Whittle on twitter (the times correspondent): "Froome's major accelerations came on the 'false flats' towards C Reynard.."

I've done Mont Ventoux from Bedoin as well and let me tell you there are no false flats before Chalet Reynard, maybe some VERY short section but nowhere near long enough to cook Conti like that

 

[bikelizard]

Measuring doping and non doping through one's eyes having even significant experience of following is hooey

It's a small piece of the puzzle and Froome's puzzle has a lot of fitting pieces.

People used the same arguments to defend Armstrong during his reign even though it was obvious from the beginning that he wasn't clean.

 

[murali]

I think the only person laughing his way out of this tdf will be LA. Now LA can claim that a not-doped Froome has put in a performance better than himself. So obviously LA wasn't doping and by extension taking the 7 titles away from him is injustice. I think he might even sue tygart for attempt to defamation, and wrongful use of office for personal gains.

Way to go , Froome.

 

[Bratam]

Brailsford is a master of spin. Arguing with him is a waste of time.
http://x2t.com/237477

Absolutely. I can recall in early 2012 Paul Kimmage was set to spend a few weeks in the Sky Team camp as Brad Wiggins prepared for the TDF. What happened to that ? Sky called it off at the 11th hour on the apparent direction of Brad Wiggins.

Sky have been repeatedly full of hot air over the past 24 months. You cannot believe anything they say.

 

[Cerberus]

It's a small piece of the puzzle and Froome's puzzle has a lot of fitting pieces.

People used the same arguments to defend Armstrong during his reign even though it was obvious from the beginning that he wasn't clean.

Well the "eyeball test" is very inaccurate and heavilly subject to viewer bias, that's a fact. Of cause the more scientific test of power and performance gives the same result as your eyball test (and mine).

 

[MartinGT]

Johan Brailsford could be a polotician he comes out with that much sh!t.

 

[airstream]

It's a small piece of the puzzle and Froome's puzzle has a lot of fitting pieces.

People used the same arguments to defend Armstrong during his reign even though it was obvious from the beginning that he wasn't clean.

I don't state that Froome is clean. Moreover, I was saying what I think about him a few pages ago, but... we should decide what we want from this sport: either show or Plateau de Beille group rides...And I tell Froome 'Yes. Go ahead'. Surely, you will disagree, but I doubt you'll find someone to root for among 3-5-10 his main opponents.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

This is interesting.

http://climbing-records.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/mont-ventoux-2013-two-new-entries-in.html

 

[murali]

According to Jeremy Whittle on twitter (the times correspondent): "Froome's major accelerations came on the 'false flats' towards C Reynard.."

stop kidding. Where was the supposed flat that he is talking about. I believe all of us watching TV were tricked by the cameraman holding the camera in a angle and some photoshop to show all spectators and posts in a slight angle.

If you want to say Froome is clean, say so. But please don't give ridiculous quotes like this.

The place where valverde reached the mollema group after being dropped is the supposed "false flat". Froome was already testing Quintana at that point.

 

[Bratam]

What does it have to do with doping directly? Visual impression implies doping automatically?

A clean rider should be at or close to the limit when they are 2/3 of the way through a long, tough climb and they have just dropped the rest of the field (with the exception of Quintana who was just up ahead and slowing). To then suddenly speed off like a ballistic missile is highly suspicious of doping. As I am sure Lance Armstrong would tell you, it is "NOT NORMAL".

 

[Cimber]

This is interesting.

http://climbing-records.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/mont-ventoux-2013-two-new-entries-in.html

No not really cos the 1st half of the climb they went rather slowly as no one took charge. You need to compare the times from when Froome went total genius.

There have been some ranking of the last half of the climb that shows that Froome is the 2nd fastest ever (IIrc)

 

[murali]

Well the "eyeball test" is very inaccurate and heavilly subject to viewer bias, that's a fact. Of cause the more scientific test of power and performance gives the same result as your eyball test (and mine).

please don't call the "eyeball test" as BS. I think that most of us who quote the said test mean the same thing.
The power and performance test again is not going to stand in court, unless we physically test Froome in a lab environment. What we need is good investigators doing thorough investigation.

 

[murali]

Sir Dave Brailsford also hit out at the persistent scepticism surrounding Team Sky and said he would be happy to see the biological passport system improved in order to prove the squad's integrit

good to see that DB himself is saying that the biological passport system is not foolproof.

i feel sorry for LA. he assumed that the bio passport system was good. i think the old dopers will get surprised at the current sophistication once the true story comes out.

 

[bikelizard]

I don't state that Froome is clean. Moreover, I was saying what I think about him a few pages ago, but... we should decide what we want from this sport: either show or Plateau de Beille group rides...And I tell Froome 'Yes. Go ahead'. Surely, you will disagree, but I doubt you'll find someone to root for among 3-5-10 his main opponents.

I didn't read every page of this thread but I agree that "show and drama" is a important part of the TDF. Froome's performance on Ventoux was an excellent show and the doping discussion it triggered is certainly a necessary (and fun) part of the soap opera charm of cycling.
People are dissapointed that Froome dominates the Tour in the same way they are disappointed that their favourite TV show doesn't go the way they had hoped.

The more people talk about Froome's performance the more likely it is we'll learn the truth one day. And this is also part of the TDF.

 

[vrusimov]

Even if it's sarcasm honestly I have no clue what you imply by it...

Here is some help:

From the autobus:

Giro d'Italia 2010 DNQ

stage 1 ITT 8.4 138TH @'51. same time as Amador
stage 6(transitional) 97th @4'11. finished with Ale-Jet
stage 7(transitional) 132nd @24'10. Tuscan mud stage
stage 8(MT) 65th @12'02. 2 places and almost 4 minutes down on Tommy V.
stage 11 (transitional) 167th @46'31. Autobus
stage 13 (transitional) 111th @7'55. Worst Sky finisher.
stage 14(mt) 23rd @4'46. same group as Tommy V and 1 place ahead of Porte.
stage 15(mt) 82nd @22'35. Same group as the noted climber Pozzato.
stage 16 MTT 12.9km 39th @3'47. 4seconds behind Tommy V.
stage 17(transitional) 146th @18'13. Autobus
stage 19(mt) Kicked out for breaking the rules.

To this:

Pena Cabarga. 1st. Exceptional performance. ahead of Cobo
462W
6.42w/kg
470W standard[70kg]
00:17:15 duration of effort
2 Cols

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Measuring doping and non doping through one's eyes having even significant experience of following is hooey

Except that on the numerous occasions it has been applied to specific riders, those riders almost always come up dirty.

You remind me so much of the Armstrong fanboys of old. I just got a tear in my eye...

 

[thirteen]

Kimmage on Froome: http://www.independent.ie/sport/kimmage/questions-all-the-way-home-29418540.html

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

No not really cos the 1st half of the climb they went rather slowly as no one took charge. You need to compare the times from when Froome went total genius.

There have been some ranking of the last half of the climb that shows that Froome is the 2nd fastest ever (IIrc)

But if we're only taking account of Froome's final 10k then the comparisons should surely be to other flat out climbs over 10k, not the final 10k of the Ventoux in situations when the first 10k were ridden hard.

I'm not defending Froome, as I have been convinced he's dodgy since I first heard of him - Vuelta 2011 - but some of the hyperbole in the last 24 hours has been a bit OTT. Interesting that you dismiss the rankings, though. I'd have thought there'd be plenty of mileage in highlighting the names close to Froome in the rankings without cherry-picking sections of Froome's ascent to make an apples-to-oranges comparison.

 

[Ripper]

Only extreme fanboism or patriotism can prevent any one from beinng extremely suspicious about what we have seen from Froome in this Tour

You should read the posts underneath the stories then.

Simply - wow!

 

[Ferminal]

But if we're only taking account of Froome's final 10k then the comparisons should surely be to other flat out climbs over 10k, not the final 10k of the Ventoux in situations when the first 10k were ridden hard.

Ventoux to Saint-Esteve is borderline false flat. It's more than acceptable to exclude the preceding 5-6km from timing because they are more an indication of how fast a team's rouleurs want to pace rather than the physical potential of the leaders.

 

[Parrulo]

PK tweeted this:

Paul Kimmage @PaulKimmage 3 h

Froome on Ventoux? Call me Dumbo: "I saw a peanut stand, heard a rubber band, I saw a needle that winked its eye. But I think I will have..

Paul Kimmage @PaulKimmage 3 h

...seen everything when I see an elephant fly."

Thomas Frei replied:

Thomas Frei @thomasfrei 2 h

@PaulKimmage @DavidWalshST you guys heard already from Gas6 (Growth arrest-specific 6) ?

What is Gas6?