Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

I expect an electric performance in the time trial - he will motor into Paris with the yellow jersey!

August 2011. Let's assume the British Sky are using motorbikes. Why does the Kenyan Froome, who would arouse massive suspicion with good performances, get a motorbike in Spain? They had Wiggins there as the leader, dont need a dom on a motorbike. Why not give the motorbike to the British Kennaugh, who seemed to have decent potential as a young rider for the Tour in following years

Because Froome did it on his own. Cycling is a sport for opportunists and Froome saw an opportunity. I'm sure Sky was as surprised as the rest but, like the rest, knew exactly what was up and went with it. Froome was basically holding Sky hostage at that point.

Froome fitted a motor to his bike without the knowledge of the team? Really?

Anything is possible in procycling.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Only five other riders have won the Tour three times. Bit of a pointless stat

Seven others have won it three or more times, and twenty have won it twice or more. Yet only two have won it twice at age 30 or older.

Since you don't get the point, I'll be clearer. Until recently, it was not possible for even the greatest riders to perform consistently well past 30.

Froome also wasn't putting his body through the same stress until the age of about 27. Big difference between training hard and maintaining a good level and going through cycles of 'peaks'. A peak is defined as a temporary, unsustainable period of unusually high performance, and will ultimately harm the body in the longer term

But Froome's body was stressed with the debilitating badzhilla parasites that made him sick all of the time, except now :lol:

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

I expect an electric performance in the time trial - he will motor into Paris with the yellow jersey!

August 2011. Let's assume the British Sky are using motorbikes. Why does the Kenyan Froome, who would arouse massive suspicion with good performances, get a motorbike in Spain? They had Wiggins there as the leader, dont need a dom on a motorbike. Why not give the motorbike to the British Kennaugh, who seemed to have decent potential as a young rider for the Tour in following years

Because Froome did it on his own. Cycling is a sport for opportunists and Froome saw an opportunity. I'm sure Sky was as surprised as the rest but, like the rest, knew exactly what was up and went with it. Froome was basically holding Sky hostage at that point.

Froome fitted a motor to his bike without the knowledge of the team? Really?

Anything is possible in procycling.

This isn't though. It's definitely possible they are using motors and it's also possible that Froome is or has, but there's no chance a pro rider could fit a motor to their bike during a GT without the team knowing about it.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

This isn't though. It's definitely possible they are using motors and it's also possible that Froome is or has, but there's no chance a pro rider could fit a motor to their bike during a GT without the team knowing about it.

It might be one mechanic works on Froome's bike and he knows. Maybe the rest dont. The team as a whole might not. As i said it is possible. But i do doubt it.

But i reckon the top 3/4 on sky are motorised. So it is a team affair.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

This isn't though. It's definitely possible they are using motors and it's also possible that Froome is or has, but there's no chance a pro rider could fit a motor to their bike during a GT without the team knowing about it.

It might be one mechanic works on Froome's bike and he knows. Maybe the rest dont. The team as a whole might not. As i said it is possible. But i do doubt it.

But i reckon the top 3/4 on sky are motorised. So it is a team affair.

Certainly possible, that's not what Lyon claimed though, hence my reply in that context.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

This isn't though. It's definitely possible they are using motors and it's also possible that Froome is or has, but there's no chance a pro rider could fit a motor to their bike during a GT without the team knowing about it.

It might be one mechanic works on Froome's bike and he knows. Maybe the rest dont. The team as a whole might not. As i said it is possible. But i do doubt it.

But i reckon the top 3/4 on sky are motorised. So it is a team affair.

Certainly possible, that's not what Lyon claimed though, hence my reply in that context.

ok

 

[jilbiker]

Re: Re:

This isn't though. It's definitely possible they are using motors and it's also possible that Froome is or has, but there's no chance a pro rider could fit a motor to their bike during a GT without the team knowing about it.

It might be one mechanic works on Froome's bike and he knows. Maybe the rest dont. The team as a whole might not. As i said it is possible. But i do doubt it.

But i reckon the top 3/4 on sky are motorised. So it is a team affair.

It is baffling how this team has 5 riders that can pull it in the mountians. I cannot recall a team that had that kind of number of mtn goats, not USPostal not Discovery, not Indurian era. LA must be mystified, at best he got 3 people who could pull in the mountains and stress the peloton. But 5 sometimes 6, and these are not traditional mtn climbers, some are regular Joe riders. What is the can of beans they are taking? can't be BB, must be motorized.

We need a reasoned decision for sky. It doesn't add up

 

[Benotti69]

I think the motor thing is getting out of hand, just like the epo thing. It will take police intervention again to expose it. But at what damage to the sport?

It has never recovered its damage as a doping sport, but the motors will ensure it never gets any credibility, even if it was cleaned up. The sport has no one to blame but itself.

 

[jilbiker]

Re:

I think the motor thing is getting out of hand, just like the epo thing. It will take police intervention again to expose it. But at what damage to the sport?

It has never recovered its damage as a doping sport, but the motors will ensure it never gets any credibility, even if it was cleaned up. The sport has no one to blame but itself.

Its getting to be a joke. I am close to the point of why bother watching...

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

I think the motor thing is getting out of hand, just like the epo thing. It will take police intervention again to expose it. But at what damage to the sport?

It has never recovered its damage as a doping sport, but the motors will ensure it never gets any credibility, even if it was cleaned up. The sport has no one to blame but itself.

Its getting to be a joke. I am close to the point of why bother watching...

yep i am thinking this is my last TdF to watch.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

This isn't though. It's definitely possible they are using motors and it's also possible that Froome is or has, but there's no chance a pro rider could fit a motor to their bike during a GT without the team knowing about it.

It might be one mechanic works on Froome's bike and he knows. Maybe the rest dont. The team as a whole might not. As i said it is possible. But i do doubt it.

But i reckon the top 3/4 on sky are motorised. So it is a team affair.

I doubt it too, but, with Froome, indeed all options/scenarios need to be considered.

Tucker two days ago said the same on Offtheball: we can guess but we don't really know to what extent Froome is and/or has been in the inner circle of Team Sky. It certainly seems in 2011 he wasn't part of the inner circle; however, he was coached by Bobby Julich, who was I think on good footing with Brailsford (correct me if wrong).
I also rememeber TheHog suggesting Froome was seen training with Brailsford prior to the Vuelta.
Lots of question marks. Lots of possible scenarios.

As for motors/mechanics: Gary Blem worked with Froome at Konika/Barloworld, then went to HTC Highroad working with Cavendish, and then transferred together with Cavendish to Team Sky and became Froome's personal mechanic as well as Sky's head mechanic, although time-wise that was after Froome's transformation.
Bobby Julich himself is possibly an interesting name here too, having worked with CSC/Riis all those years.

 

[ontheroad]

Re: Re:

This isn't though. It's definitely possible they are using motors and it's also possible that Froome is or has, but there's no chance a pro rider could fit a motor to their bike during a GT without the team knowing about it.

It might be one mechanic works on Froome's bike and he knows. Maybe the rest dont. The team as a whole might not. As i said it is possible. But i do doubt it.

But i reckon the top 3/4 on sky are motorised. So it is a team affair.

I doubt it too, but, with Froome, indeed all options/scenarios need to be considered.

Tucker two days ago said the same on Offtheball: we can guess but we don't really know to what extent Froome is and/or has been in the inner circle of Team Sky. It certainly seems in 2011 he wasn't part of the inner circle; however, he was coached by Bobby Julich, who was I think on good footing with Brailsford (correct me if wrong).
I also rememeber TheHog suggesting Froome was seen training with Brailsford prior to the Vuelta.
Lots of question marks. Lots of possible scenarios.

As for motors/mechanics: Gary Blem worked with Froome at Konika/Barloworld, then went to HTC Highroad working with Cavendish, and then transferred together with Cavendish to Team Sky and became Froome's personal mechanic as well as Sky's head mechanic, although time-wise that was after Froome's transformation.
Bobby Julich himself is possibly an interesting name here too, having worked with CSC/Riis all those years.

Despite the public perception that Froome and Brailsford are not particularly close, we really don't know whether this is the case or not. Any public utterances could simply be a smokescreen. For a team that is all about perception (Tim Kerrison once said that an objective of theirs was to be perceived to be clean) it is important to take anything they say to the public with a large pich of salt.

The only thing we know for certain is that Froome has signed a new contract with sky despite all of the shenanigans that have gone on over the winter months. Actions speak a lot louder than words in Froome's case.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Re:

I think the motor thing is getting out of hand, just like the epo thing. It will take police intervention again to expose it. But at what damage to the sport?

It has never recovered its damage as a doping sport, but the motors will ensure it never gets any credibility, even if it was cleaned up. The sport has no one to blame but itself.

This is why the UCI will never admit motors are a problem. I bet they work furiously behind the scenes to get rid of them too. Basically, cycling is out of chances and one more mega-scandal will probably see cycling removed from the Olympics. That would kill off the need for the UCI altogether. From there, ASO could set up shop any way they want and own the sport outright. Then it becomes like American football or baseball. All privately owned with no oversight.

John Swanson

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

I think the motor thing is getting out of hand, just like the epo thing. It will take police intervention again to expose it. But at what damage to the sport?

It has never recovered its damage as a doping sport, but the motors will ensure it never gets any credibility, even if it was cleaned up. The sport has no one to blame but itself.

This is why the UCI will never admit motors are a problem. I bet they work furiously behind the scenes to get rid of them too. Basically, cycling is out of chances and one more mega-scandal will probably see cycling removed from the Olympics. That would kill off the need for the UCI altogether. From there, ASO could set up shop any way they want and own the sport outright. Then it becomes like American football or baseball. All privately owned with no oversight.

John Swanson

ASO might do a better job of the sport than UCI.

I think the motor thing will get exposed and yes it will be the final straw.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Re: Re:

This isn't though. It's definitely possible they are using motors and it's also possible that Froome is or has, but there's no chance a pro rider could fit a motor to their bike during a GT without the team knowing about it.

It might be one mechanic works on Froome's bike and he knows. Maybe the rest dont. The team as a whole might not. As i said it is possible. But i do doubt it.

But i reckon the top 3/4 on sky are motorised. So it is a team affair.

I doubt it too, but, with Froome, indeed all options/scenarios need to be considered.

Tucker two days ago said the same on Offtheball: we can guess but we don't really know to what extent Froome is and/or has been in the inner circle of Team Sky. It certainly seems in 2011 he wasn't part of the inner circle; however, he was coached by Bobby Julich, who was I think on good footing with Brailsford (correct me if wrong).
I also rememeber TheHog suggesting Froome was seen training with Brailsford prior to the Vuelta.
Lots of question marks. Lots of possible scenarios.

As for motors/mechanics: Gary Blem worked with Froome at Konika/Barloworld, then went to HTC Highroad working with Cavendish, and then transferred together with Cavendish to Team Sky and became Froome's personal mechanic as well as Sky's head mechanic, although time-wise that was after Froome's transformation.
Bobby Julich himself is possibly an interesting name here too, having worked with CSC/Riis all those years.

It's cycling. Anybody in the sport for a few years has worked with someone that's dodgy as hell. That makes it easy to draw connections as you have, but really tough to figure out if it's nefarious.

John Swanson

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

...
It's cycling. Anybody in the sport for a few years has worked with someone that's dodgy as hell. That makes it easy to draw connections as you have, but really tough to figure out if it's nefarious.

Maybe for someone like Kerrison - a new face in cycling when Sky hired him - you could make a tentative (but hardly plausible) case that it's "tough to figure out if it's nefarious".
Not for Blem or Julich.
As you say it's pro-cycling. It's nefarious alright.
The fact that the old faces stick around so long tells the whole story.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

I think the motor thing is getting out of hand, just like the epo thing. It will take police intervention again to expose it. But at what damage to the sport?

It has never recovered its damage as a doping sport, but the motors will ensure it never gets any credibility, even if it was cleaned up. The sport has no one to blame but itself.

This is why the UCI will never admit motors are a problem. I bet they work furiously behind the scenes to get rid of them too. Basically, cycling is out of chances and one more mega-scandal will probably see cycling removed from the Olympics. That would kill off the need for the UCI altogether. From there, ASO could set up shop any way they want and own the sport outright. Then it becomes like American football or baseball. All privately owned with no oversight.

John Swanson

I''m intrigued by this side of the story.

I don't think they're trying, or are in a position, to get rid of them. Guys like Mark Barfield have shared business interests with bike brands and e-bike producers who (one can surmise) are profiting immensely from the use of e-bikes at pro-level.

I do think they're trying very very hard keep it under control and not let it get out of hand. How they do that exactly, no idea, but i'm guessing it involves a complex system of brown envelopes and, as I speculated earlier, it might involve a kind of system based on (fake) doping positives.
I can see UCI telling certain riders (or teams) to stop using motors, and if they don't, target test them and hand them a suspension for doping. I'm thinking e.g. Cardoso 2017, Floyd 2006, and/or maybe Astana 2014.

 

[DanielSong39]

Froome has been the best advertisement for e-bikes; hopefully we will start seeing some good ones on the market soon.

No hard feeling on Froome - the sport is what it is.

 

[yaco]

Re:

I think the motor thing is getting out of hand, just like the epo thing. It will take police intervention again to expose it. But at what damage to the sport?

It has never recovered its damage as a doping sport, but the motors will ensure it never gets any credibility, even if it was cleaned up. The sport has no one to blame but itself.

How could the police intervene if a pro-cyclist uses a motor - It's not a criminal offence, unlike using PED's.

 

[ontheroad]

I don't think that doping alone could possibly explain the massive spike in performance from Jul 2011 to Aug 2011 which is the biggest transformation in the history of the sport.

 

[rick james]

Re: Re:

I think the motor thing is getting out of hand, just like the epo thing. It will take police intervention again to expose it. But at what damage to the sport?

It has never recovered its damage as a doping sport, but the motors will ensure it never gets any credibility, even if it was cleaned up. The sport has no one to blame but itself.

Its getting to be a joke. I am close to the point of why bother watching...

yep i am thinking this is my last TdF to watch.

:lol: we'll see

 

[Robert5091]

Re: Re:

I think the motor thing is getting out of hand, just like the epo thing. It will take police intervention again to expose it. But at what damage to the sport?

It has never recovered its damage as a doping sport, but the motors will ensure it never gets any credibility, even if it was cleaned up. The sport has no one to blame but itself.

Its getting to be a joke. I am close to the point of why bother watching...

yep i am thinking this is my last TdF to watch.

:lol: we'll see

Admit it, everyone loves the circus

 

[Riek s]

The thing about motors is... unlike PEDs you can't get caught after the race is complete and you pass the 'bike-check'.

At best we might have stories, rumours assumptions... but real proof when riding with a motor can only happen when caught red handed.


Why doesn't the UCI provide the bikes themselves? Would avoid the the difference in bikes, the possible fiddling...
Everybody on a neutral bike with neutral wheels.

 

[jilbiker]

The thing about motors is... unlike PEDs you can't get caught after the race is complete and you pass the 'bike-check'.

At best we might have stories, rumours assumptions... but real proof when riding with a motor can only happen when caught red handed.


Why doesn't the UCI provide the bikes themselves? Would avoid the the difference in bikes, the possible fiddling...
Everybody on a neutral bike with neutral wheels.

That is based on the assumption that UCI is fair, clean and objective....wait, am I using those terms for UCI.....??...funny

 

[Cycle Chic]

How about a journalist - Paul Kimmage - challenging Froome to ride on a neutral bike against a 'chosen rider' on a neutral bike. Froome would be told that this would lay all rumours 'to bed', and end the mechanical doping theories.

It wouldnt end the doping theories but it would end the motors.