Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[Gung Ho Gun]

People are generally healthier and reach adulthood later than they did halfway through the previous century. I don't think comparison with the likes of Anquetil is really valid. Average life expectancy increased by 20 years or so; seems perfectly possible to me that athletic performances may also be sustained for a few years longer than in the past.

 

[luckyboy]

Re: Re:

Only five other riders have won the Tour three times. Bit of a pointless stat

Seven others have won it three or more times, and twenty have won it twice or more. Yet only two have won it twice at age 30 or older.

Since you don't get the point, I'll be clearer. Until recently, it was not possible for even the greatest riders to perform consistently well past 30.

It's the same with Tennis, or for that matter any sport. Winners are getting older, which, at least for me, is a clear sign, that we are far away from clean competitions. After 30 male androgen levels start to drop, thats a fact.

DOB 1915. Last first division game 1965

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Matthews

I'm sure the level of physical fitness needed to compete in modern sports at the top level is the same now as it was in the 50s and 60s...

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

Only five other riders have won the Tour three times. Bit of a pointless stat

Seven others have won it three or more times, and twenty have won it twice or more. Yet only two have won it twice at age 30 or older.

Since you don't get the point, I'll be clearer. Until recently, it was not possible for even the greatest riders to perform consistently well past 30.

It's the same with Tennis, or for that matter any sport. Winners are getting older, which, at least for me, is a clear sign, that we are far away from clean competitions. After 30 male androgen levels start to drop, thats a fact.

DOB 1915. Last first division game 1965

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Matthews

Not sure Matthews is a great comparison. Yes he played football, 90 mins for a long time. But hell a lot of footballers were chainsmokers and their fitness levels were in no way compatible to cyclists of the time!

What age did Merckx, Coppi, Anquetil etc retire at, even he likes of Hinault.

Doping is what is giving people longevity in the modern era. To think otherwise is just blindness.

Bartali rode until he was 40, and won a Tour at 34, winning seven stages along the way. He podiumed Giri until he was almost 36. Coppi won his last Giro at 33 (going on 34), and another the previous year. Both his tours came beyond the age of twentynine - his GC skills remained long, but it was his one day races which got worse. Bobet won his at the traditional 'peak' years, and Anquetil won everything before he was 31. Gimondi won a Giro at 34 as well, but Big Mig, Hinault and Merckx lost everything by the time they turned 31 or 32.

Basically, it differs a lot between person to person. Some lose it over 30, some keep it, some thrive. It isn't unheard of for older riders to do well, but it is rare. However, it cannot be put solely down to doping, but also physiology.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

One step closer to immortality and the greatest clean cyclist of all time.

:lol:

 

[red_flanders]

Re: Re:

Bartali rode until he was 40, and won a Tour at 34, winning seven stages along the way. He podiumed Giri until he was almost 36. Coppi won his last Giro at 33 (going on 34), and another the previous year. Both his tours came beyond the age of twentynine - his GC skills remained long, but it was his one day races which got worse. Bobet won his at the traditional 'peak' years, and Anquetil won everything before he was 31. Gimondi won a Giro at 34 as well, but Big Mig, Hinault and Merckx lost everything by the time they turned 31 or 32.

Basically, it differs a lot between person to person. Some lose it over 30, some keep it, some thrive. It isn't unheard of for older riders to do well, but it is rare. However, it cannot be put solely down to doping, but also physiology.

Seem to recall those gents had their careers interrupted for a few years by a minor conflict in Europe around that time...

5 years of rest will extend your career some. See Marcus Allen, etc.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Bartali rode until he was 40, and won a Tour at 34, winning seven stages along the way. He podiumed Giri until he was almost 36. Coppi won his last Giro at 33 (going on 34), and another the previous year. Both his tours came beyond the age of twentynine - his GC skills remained long, but it was his one day races which got worse. Bobet won his at the traditional 'peak' years, and Anquetil won everything before he was 31. Gimondi won a Giro at 34 as well, but Big Mig, Hinault and Merckx lost everything by the time they turned 31 or 32.

Basically, it differs a lot between person to person. Some lose it over 30, some keep it, some thrive. It isn't unheard of for older riders to do well, but it is rare. However, it cannot be put solely down to doping, but also physiology.

There will always be an anomaly. But it is not the norm as it has become in the modern era.

Horner won La Vuelta at 39, yet no one wanted him! Rebellin still beating younger pros yet no big team wants him.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

Bartali rode until he was 40, and won a Tour at 34, winning seven stages along the way. He podiumed Giri until he was almost 36. Coppi won his last Giro at 33 (going on 34), and another the previous year. Both his tours came beyond the age of twentynine - his GC skills remained long, but it was his one day races which got worse. Bobet won his at the traditional 'peak' years, and Anquetil won everything before he was 31. Gimondi won a Giro at 34 as well, but Big Mig, Hinault and Merckx lost everything by the time they turned 31 or 32.

Basically, it differs a lot between person to person. Some lose it over 30, some keep it, some thrive. It isn't unheard of for older riders to do well, but it is rare. However, it cannot be put solely down to doping, but also physiology.

Seem to recall those gents had their careers interrupted for a few years by a minor conflict in Europe around that time...

5 years of rest will extend your career some. See Marcus Allen, etc.

Yeah that is also true.

 

[DanielSong39]

I expect an electric performance in the time trial - he will motor into Paris with the yellow jersey!

 

[red_flanders]

Re: Re:

Bartali rode until he was 40, and won a Tour at 34, winning seven stages along the way. He podiumed Giri until he was almost 36. Coppi won his last Giro at 33 (going on 34), and another the previous year. Both his tours came beyond the age of twentynine - his GC skills remained long, but it was his one day races which got worse. Bobet won his at the traditional 'peak' years, and Anquetil won everything before he was 31. Gimondi won a Giro at 34 as well, but Big Mig, Hinault and Merckx lost everything by the time they turned 31 or 32.

Basically, it differs a lot between person to person. Some lose it over 30, some keep it, some thrive. It isn't unheard of for older riders to do well, but it is rare. However, it cannot be put solely down to doping, but also physiology.

Seem to recall those gents had their careers interrupted for a few years by a minor conflict in Europe around that time...

5 years of rest will extend your career some. See Marcus Allen, etc.

Yeah that is also true.

Thumbs up.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

I expect an electric performance in the time trial - he will motor into Paris with the yellow jersey!

August 2011. Let's assume the British Sky are using motorbikes. Why does the Kenyan Froome, who would arouse massive suspicion with good performances, get a motorbike in Spain? They had Wiggins there as the leader, dont need a dom on a motorbike. Why not give the motorbike to the British Kennaugh, who seemed to have decent potential as a young rider for the Tour in following years

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

Only five other riders have won the Tour three times. Bit of a pointless stat

Seven others have won it three or more times, and twenty have won it twice or more. Yet only two have won it twice at age 30 or older.

Since you don't get the point, I'll be clearer. Until recently, it was not possible for even the greatest riders to perform consistently well past 30.

Froome also wasn't putting his body through the same stress until the age of about 27. Big difference between training hard and maintaining a good level and going through cycles of 'peaks'. A peak is defined as a temporary, unsustainable period of unusually high performance, and will ultimately harm the body in the longer term

 

[Norks74]

Re: Re:

Froome's style is hideous..

Makes me physically ill. Arguably the least aesthetically pleasing cyclist of all time, and that includes Fernando Escartin.

Ugh! My eyes!! I think it may be a draw? Equally awful 'styles'.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re: Re:

Bartali rode until he was 40, and won a Tour at 34, winning seven stages along the way. He podiumed Giri until he was almost 36. Coppi won his last Giro at 33 (going on 34), and another the previous year. Both his tours came beyond the age of twentynine - his GC skills remained long, but it was his one day races which got worse. Bobet won his at the traditional 'peak' years, and Anquetil won everything before he was 31. Gimondi won a Giro at 34 as well, but Big Mig, Hinault and Merckx lost everything by the time they turned 31 or 32.

Basically, it differs a lot between person to person. Some lose it over 30, some keep it, some thrive. It isn't unheard of for older riders to do well, but it is rare. However, it cannot be put solely down to doping, but also physiology.

There will always be an anomaly. But it is not the norm as it has become in the modern era.

Horner won La Vuelta at 39, yet no one wanted him! Rebellin still beating younger pros yet no big team wants him.

Horner at 39 was still relatively anonymous. He won the Vuelta one month shy of his 42nd birthday.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Only five other riders have won the Tour three times. Bit of a pointless stat

Seven others have won it three or more times, and twenty have won it twice or more. Yet only two have won it twice at age 30 or older.

Since you don't get the point, I'll be clearer. Until recently, it was not possible for even the greatest riders to perform consistently well past 30.

Froome also wasn't putting his body through the same stress until the age of about 27. Big difference between training hard and maintaining a good level and going through cycles of 'peaks'. A peak is defined as a temporary, unsustainable period of unusually high performance, and will ultimately harm the body in the longer term

Froome was a pro at konica, then barloworld, before Sky. He couldn't put his body through the same stresses because he was sh!t.

 

[Robert5091]

Froome has not won a stage yet at TdF ...

 

[samhocking]

Winning Le Tour without winning any stage is a very exclusive club. Worth aiming for I reckon.

Firmin Lambot (BEL) 1922
Roger Walkowiak (FRA) 1956
Gastone Nencini (ITA) 1960
Lucien Aimar (FRA) 1966
Greg LeMond (USA) 1990
Óscar Pereiro (ESP) 2006

 

[sniper]

Ross Tucker interviewed by Joe Molloy yesterday, calling Froome's Ventoux 2013 a 'flag performance' for motor suspicions.
Ouch.

 

[samhocking]

Re: Re:

Froome's style is hideous..

Makes me physically ill. Arguably the least aesthetically pleasing cyclist of all time, and that includes Fernando Escartin.

Ugh! My eyes!! I think it may be a draw? Equally awful 'styles'.

Dan Martin is pretty ugly to watch too. Maybe it's related to only GC riders with dual nationality who ride for a Country they weren't born or grew up in?

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Froome's style is hideous..

Makes me physically ill. Arguably the least aesthetically pleasing cyclist of all time, and that includes Fernando Escartin.

Ugh! My eyes!! I think it may be a draw? Equally awful 'styles'.

Dan Martin is pretty ugly to watch too. Maybe it's related to only GC riders with dual nationality who ride for a Country they weren't born or grew up in?

Dan Martin riders under Irish Nationality as he got ignored as a junior in the UK. I dont think he has ever lived in Ireland.

 

[samhocking]

Not exactly ignored. He was British under-18 national road race champion in 2004. British Cycling simply didn't have a U23 road development program in 2004 for him to go to. Or rather they did, but it only catered for endurance specialists or sprint specialists on track of which Martin is neither a Cavendish or Thomas/Wiggins.
He basically followed the same French path as Adam Yates , not a British Cycling path like brother Simon Yates.

 

[JosephK]

Froome sandbagging again today to give the appearance of legitimacy. All of Sky were ridiculous on the final hill, like going out for a Sunday stroll. The Landa "drama" was pushed just to prop up the phony show, today. When Froome got bored, he closed the gap to Landa easy as you please, then back to the sandbagging. He will crush everyone in the ITT on Saturday. The deal was done on day 1 in the rain. It was already clear this would be another joke of a TDF. Not that I am bitter or anything. :lol:

 

[Lyon]

Re: Re:

I expect an electric performance in the time trial - he will motor into Paris with the yellow jersey!

August 2011. Let's assume the British Sky are using motorbikes. Why does the Kenyan Froome, who would arouse massive suspicion with good performances, get a motorbike in Spain? They had Wiggins there as the leader, dont need a dom on a motorbike. Why not give the motorbike to the British Kennaugh, who seemed to have decent potential as a young rider for the Tour in following years

Because Froome did it on his own. Cycling is a sport for opportunists and Froome saw an opportunity. I'm sure Sky was as surprised as the rest but, like the rest, knew exactly what was up and went with it. Froome was basically holding Sky hostage at that point.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

I expect an electric performance in the time trial - he will motor into Paris with the yellow jersey!

August 2011. Let's assume the British Sky are using motorbikes. Why does the Kenyan Froome, who would arouse massive suspicion with good performances, get a motorbike in Spain? They had Wiggins there as the leader, dont need a dom on a motorbike. Why not give the motorbike to the British Kennaugh, who seemed to have decent potential as a young rider for the Tour in following years

Because Froome did it on his own. Cycling is a sport for opportunists and Froome saw an opportunity. I'm sure Sky was as surprised as the rest but, like the rest, knew exactly what was up and went with it. Froome was basically holding Sky hostage at that point.

Froome fitted a motor to his bike without the knowledge of the team? Really?

 

[miguelindurain111]

There's a rumour that Michelle and her mother built the winning ebike for Froome.

 

[deeno1975]

Re:

There's a rumour that Michelle and her mother built the winning ebike for Froome.

That's as credible as Michelle changing Chris's diet and him morphing into the next Merkx.