Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I don´t know if he/Sky is clean. I said this since last year multiple times.

Maybe Sky is doping, may they work in a "grey" area, maybe they are clean by definition of doping methods but use other shady or non-shady methods. I don´t know. But so do the acusers all over the forum. And that is a fact.

But what i am 100% sure about is this (i also said multiple times):
Sky/Froome is no more suspicious than the named spaniards and/or other busted dopers. Yes i believe the spanish dopers are worse than Sky/Froome. Yes, Sky has yet to have any doping scandal unlike for example obscure teams like Saunier/Geox or Xacobeo Galicia had many times. Yes i think Europcar is worse than Sky/Froome: It´s one thing if seasoned/talented vet´s lead a train (like Porte, Knees, EBH, Kiryienka, Henao, Uran Uran, etc.) or low paid "no-names" of a 2nd division team lead Voeckler trou the climbs...

 

[Bratam]

I agree with your comments FoxxyBrown1111. It is possible that Froome is clean, but we really don't know. I am prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt. He also seems to speak honestly in his interviews.

However, i do think that Brad Wiggins results last year were far more suspicious. He improved his climbing ability and then at the same time improved his time trail ability significantly as well. He was a mile ahead of every one in the TDF time trials and then again at the Olympics. Suddenly, Wiggins was well ahead of Tony Martin as well. I really would like to know if that kind of improvement is possible.

Then this year at the Giro, his results in the first few days (when he wasnt ill) were a lot more realistic.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Also said this many times since last year:
Wiggins is the only really suspicious rider at Sky. But still his transformation came at the "clean team", not at Sky.
OTOH, he always was a good ITTler... His all of a sudden climbing ability at high age 29 in 2009 is highly suspicious (in his 7th !!! full season as professional road cyclist in europe). That was Armstrong-Rijs-Rominger like. Such things never happened pre 1990.
On yet another OTOH :
Froome is plausible given his unusual career path and that he was still relatively young when "exploding" in 2011 (age 26, in his 4th full season in professional europe road racing).

 

[Ripper]

I agree with your comments FoxxyBrown1111. It is possible that Froome is clean, but we really don't know. I am prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt. He also seems to speak honestly in his interviews.

However, i do think that Brad Wiggins results last year were far more suspicious. He improved his climbing ability and then at the same time improved his time trail ability significantly as well. He was a mile ahead of every one in the TDF time trials and then again at the Olympics. Suddenly, Wiggins was well ahead of Tony Martin as well. I really would like to know if that kind of improvement is possible.

Then this year at the Giro, his results in the first few days (when he wasnt ill) were a lot more realistic.

You realize that Froome's improvements in TT and climbing have been no less sudden or less simultaneous?

 

[Ripper]

Even if Armstrong's weight was as high as 75kg, his power output would still have been above 6.8 W/kg. By my calculations, a time of 32 minutes would not have Froome's average power at above 440 W (~6.55 W/kg), even on a normal road bike with no wind assistance. With aero bars, that figure would be down to around 424 W (~6.3 W/kg). Either way, the performances remain physiologically plausible, and are not a guilty verdict on their own.

No sh*t, but thanks for stating the obvious.

If he were confirmed guilty, he would not be racing anymore.

Of course, his tranforgmification into the rider he is today is interesting ...

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Why? B/c i vehemently disagree with your stance on Ullrich or Froome, you must get abusive (even tough you try to hide it by pretening to be sarcastic)?
Is that all your arguments?

You' re just clowning around, everybody knows, so you got the response you wanted and then it is abusive?

But do continue the Spain lovin', it is funny as hell.

Froome is plausible given his unusual career path and that he was still relatively young when "exploding" in 2011 (age 26, in his 4th full season in professional europe road racing)

Yep, totally agree.
He just needed to learn how and when to produce his best wattages, steer in a straight line on the mountains and so on. Luckily for him it came right at the end of his contract. Miracles happen in pro cycling all the time.

From packfodder in Poland/Brixia/Luxembourg, where not, to GT winning material in just two weeks time. Plausible.

Daryl Impey on Froome 7 minutes in.

https://soundcloud.com/cycling-centr...uly-2013-daryl

Good stuff, he just needed longer races.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

You' re just clowning around, everybody knows

How you know what everybody knows? I guess Bavarianrider and others agree with me on Ullrich. The "Apostel-12" completely on Armstrong, AC, Vlav-Piti, etc.! Many on Froome and Sky. Alpe and others on the NFL.
You should just learn to accept different opinions in life. Your stubborn GWB way is way out of line ("You're either with us, or against us"). You don´t own the truth. Your way may work in a dictatorship country like Equatorial Guinea, but not on a internet forum. So just shut up, and try your luck there.

Miracles happen in pro cycling all the time.

Yeah, like your love Lemond. Getting shot, almost dying, learning everything about "blood replacement", and then come back to win the TdF. The very next year shipping in at 105th in the Giro to win another TdF. Very plausible too.

This wasn´t to offend the Lemond fans in the clinic. It´s just to show "Fearless Greg" that every GT rider since forever can be questioned. Not only the ones he don´t like. Mr. "Fearless" is just cherry-picking. It´s like Kindergarten behaviour...

 

[thehog]

I'm excited!

1 day to the Dawg going full ***!

I wish he'd lost some time at this point so he can punch out a 7w.

Go Dawg! Maybe he'll zig zag across the line for old times sake?

 

[LaFlorecita]

 

[Mr.38%]

...dictatorship country like Equatorial Guinea...

What the **** is wrong with you?

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

What the **** is wrong with you?

Quote is out of context. So what´s your true question?

 

[Mr.38%]

Pointing at Spain, making fun of other countries. Do you ever spend a minute thinking about how real dictatorship works? You follow the news, do you? Biased, racist, sums you up.

 

[zastomito]

Certainly Sky is wayyy less suspicious.

Sky/Froome is no more suspicious than the named spaniards and/or other busted dopers. Yes i believe the spanish dopers are worse than Sky/Froome.

That's a contradiction if I ever saw one. So, Wiggins is suspicious in 2012 but his domestique isn't? Wiggins is on a program but Froome is head an shoulders above him clean?
The thing about Sky/Froome bashing, as you said, is that they are being perpetualy shoved down our throats as only absolutely clean team. In a sport where nothing is as it seems and nothing is absolute.
Nothing against Froome, personally I would be thrilled if it turns out that he and Wiggins, entire Sky team is clean, (and that goes for any rider). It would be nice to have no doubt for the first time in last 20+ years, plus it would give us something to compare other riders to. And when his career ends he would have no problem publishing his data so that general public would be able to understand what kind of specimen one has to be to win GT clean.
But, after 20+ years of 28 BPM, high cadence, weight loos, cooling down, marginal gains, scientific approach, never tested positive, orange juice travesty I am really suspicious.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Lol, after cycling Froome will turn to body building in the Fly-weight class.

Its all happening right in front of our eyes.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Pointing at Spain, making fun of other countries. Do you ever spend a minute thinking about how real dictatorship works? You follow the news, do you? Biased, racist, sums you up.

Was lengthly about how spain treated the whole Puerto affair. It wasn´t against spain as a country. May i was a little unprecise.
And it´s not my fault that the named spanish (some of them getting busted more than once) riders defended Armstrong until the last second. It says a lot of how they see cycling and doping. They havn´t changed.
I liked the responses of Kittel and Greipel for example more. Even those who didn´t say a word were better off.
Yes know about dictatorship. Spent over a decade in africa (outside the tourist hotels BTW). So i guess i learned a lot when talking to the average pipo there.
I just brought the example. If you read the complete post, you should be able to read it in context.
To call someone a racist is the easy way out. Always. In germany we call it the "Totschlagargument". I can live with it. The world isn´t black/white. There is much grey in the middle. And everybody can have different opinions. So i would never call anyone racist.

 

[del1962]

That's a contradiction if I ever saw one. So, Wiggins is suspicious in 2012 but his domestique isn't? Wiggins is on a program but Froome is head an shoulders above him clean?
The thing about Sky/Froome bashing, as you said, is that they are being perpetualy shoved down our throats as only absolutely clean team. In a sport where nothing is as it seems and nothing is absolute.
Nothing against Froome, personally I would be thrilled if it turns out that he and Wiggins, entire Sky team is clean, (and that goes for any rider). It would be nice to have no doubt for the first time in last 20+ years, plus it would give us something to compare other riders to. And when his career ends he would have no problem publishing his data so that general public would be able to understand what kind of specimen one has to be to win GT clean.
But, after 20+ years of 28 BPM, high cadence, weight loos, cooling down, marginal gains, scientific approach, never tested positive, orange juice travesty I am really suspicious.

WHere is it shoved down our throats as the only clean team in the sport, this is just in the minds of some around here, the mind of the simpleton

 

[vrusimov]

I agree with your comments FoxxyBrown1111. It is possible that Froome is clean, but we really don't know. I am prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt. He also seems to speak honestly in his interviews.

However, i do think that Brad Wiggins results last year were far more suspicious. He improved his climbing ability and then at the same time improved his time trail ability significantly as well. He was a mile ahead of every one in the TDF time trials and then again at the Olympics. Suddenly, Wiggins was well ahead of Tony Martin as well. I really would like to know if that kind of improvement is possible.

Then this year at the Giro, his results in the first few days (when he wasnt ill) were a lot more realistic.

Honestly my friend, think a bit on what you are implying, because the implications for Froome look even worse. On more than one occasion Froome made it VERY clear that he was waiting for Wiggins at the Tour 2012. If Wiggins was doped then there is no way in hell you will convince me that Froome was riding clean. Man! the myth around this guy just continues to grow! Since Pena Cabarga and his little skirmish with Cobo, it has been a steady barrage of Froome biscuits. I think Wiggins performance in 2009 is more suspicious than 2012, given that he won the latter on a lower watt average. In both cases, they both only needed a year of "focused" road racing to climb and TT among the best.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

That's a contradiction if I ever saw one. So, Wiggins is suspicious in 2012 but his domestique isn't? Wiggins is on a program but Froome is head an shoulders above him clean?

Again: Yes in my opinion Wiggins is suspicious since he finished 4th at the TdF in 2009 at age 29. No one saw that coming, no one. Before 2009 his "best" finish in a GT was 123rd. I mean such a transformation is unheard of in the history of cycling. Not even Armstrong or Rijs can match that metamorphosis at a very high age.
Not even the guys at Columbia (HTC) saw it coming. Otherwise they would have kept him i guess. I mean Columbia was the best team back then. They knew how to spot talents.
Froome OTOH had a different career path, at least finished 36th in his 2nd GT ever. Was (compared to many others) still at a young age when "exploding", and at least sometimes rode with the big guys in mountain stages. Something Wiggins was unable to, before the summer of 2009.
So is Froome´s evolution unusual? Yes. But it´s still plausible.
Is he skinny beyond normal? Yes he is. But OTOH i could post pics here of Gerdemann in 2009, or the Chicken or Andy Schleck. They all look unheahlty. Not only Froome...

The thing about Sky/Froome bashing, as you said, is that they are being perpetualy shoved down our throats as only absolutely clean team.

Agree here. But they are not the only ones. AFIR, Garmin started that "brand" the time Wiggins finished 4th.

In a sport where nothing is as it seems and nothing is absolute.

That goes for every pro sport.

Nothing against Froome, personally I would be thrilled if it turns out that he and Wiggins, entire Sky team is clean, (and that goes for any rider). It would be nice to have no doubt for the first time in last 20+ years, plus it would give us something to compare other riders to. And when his career ends he would have no problem publishing his data so that general public would be able to understand what kind of specimen one has to be to win GT clean.
But, after 20+ years of 28 BPM, high cadence, weight loos, cooling down, marginal gains, scientific approach, never tested positive, orange juice travesty I am really suspicious.

Agree. Nothing is certain. I never said i am sure if Froome/Sky is clean. All i say again and again: Sky is no worse than others. They have yet to be linked to any doping scandal....
Sky has the best riders under contract. They have the biggest payroll. They should dominate. Everything else would be not normal. All the riders that lead the train had their T-20 GT results with other teams (except Froome )....

So after all, riders who defend a convicted doper (Armstrong) until the last second show their true mentality. It´s not my fault that those guys come from spain and were busted before. It just tells me where they come from and that they havn´t changed.
So i hope Froome wins the TdF. Nothing would be worse than AC winning the tour and Valv-Piti on podium in Paris. That would be more spitting in the face of cycling fans.
My two cents...

 

[Parrulo]

Johnny testosteroni would be proud

 

[Galic Ho]

So is Froome´s evolution unusual? Yes. But it´s still plausible.
Is he skinny beyond normal? Yes he is. But OTOH i could post pics here of Gerdemann in 2009, or the Chicken or Andy Schleck. They all look unheahlty. Not only Froome...

I'd like to see these pictures. Especially ones before and after of the Chicken and Andy Schleck. You know where they actually had significant muscle mass that they dropped. Go on. Amuse us all.

You won't find them. Why? Because they were naturally really skinny. Froome isn't. But drugs can help with that these days.

So i hope Froome wins the TdF. Nothing would be worse than AC winning the tour and Valv-Piti on podium in Paris. That would be more spitting in the face of cycling fans.
My two cents...

You really don't like the Spanish do your Foxy? Is it because they kept on winning and Germany went bottom up post Puerto? You'd prefer the most ridiculous transformation in pro cycling since epo came about to win the biggest race of the year, over two guys who were kicking **** since they hopped on bikes? You do know how Valverde got his nickname right? El Imbatido? The Unbeaten? Because he supposedly won 50 straight races as a teenager. When did Froome do that? Oh and one last thing, both Contador, Valverde and Purito are naturals on bikes. They make it look so good. Class is forever. Jan had it, so do the Spaniards. Sky GC riders? Not a chance. Viewing is worse off because of it as well.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

How you know what everybody knows? I guess Bavarianrider and others agree with me on Ullrich.

Well well well, two Germans agreeing on der Jan. Good point indeed.

Those dirty Spanjards hey!

You should just learn to accept different opinions in life. Your stubborn GWB way is way out of line ("You're either with us, or against us"). You don´t own the truth. Your way may work in a dictatorship country like Equatorial Guinea, but not on a internet forum. So just shut up, and try your luck there.

I just call you on your bullsh!t Foxxy, dont worry about it. Neither do I.

Yeah, like your love Lemond. Getting shot, almost dying, learning everything about "blood replacement", and then come back to win the TdF. The very next year shipping in at 105th in the Giro to win another TdF. Very plausible too.

This wasn´t to offend the Lemond fans in the clinic. It´s just to show "Fearless Greg" that every GT rider since forever can be questioned. Not only the ones he don´t like. Mr. "Fearless" is just cherry-picking. It´s like Kindergarten behaviour...

No, you re just trying to win an argument on the interwebz with trying to fun with someones user name, you foxxy lady. Speaking of kindergarten rhetorics.

Enjoy the Tour de Chris you Spanish lover.
[why did der Jan go all the way to Madrid? Munchen is much closer isnt it?]

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

...

... and DiLuca did win everything, so did Pantani. OTOH, do we know when they started to dope?
On "podiumcafe" there was a interesting article about Pantani. Basically it is assumed there, his whole career was made of doping. Right from the beginning.

You caught me: I havn´t found a pic of Gerdemann pre Tour 2009. But i remember very well how i was shocked of his look. More thin than ever. I thought this guy came right off 30 years in prison. He was wayyy over the line in reducing weight. He was always skinny, but that was brutal...

Anyway, the discussion is going in circles. Some believe in Sky/Froome, some not. I am in the middle. They are on the same page as everyone else, and have yet to be caught...

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Speaking of kindergarten rhetorics.

You start the fire, i hit back. Problems with that? uuhh...

[why did der Jan go all the way to Madrid? Munchen is much closer isnt it?]

Why o why? Maybe b/c spain was doping heaven. Just a thought.

Indeed, kindergarten...

 

[Mr.38%]

But OTOH i could post pics here of Gerdemann in 2009, or the Chicken or Andy Schleck. They all look unheahlty. Not only Froome...

Perfectly fine if you ask me. I have plenty of friends who were in his teams, I trained with him quite a few times over the years starting from Akud. Early 2006 he alledgedly had dodgy Hb values, other than that there is nothing (specifically) suspicious about him.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Perfectly fine if you ask me. I have plenty of friends who were in his teams, I trained with him quite a few times over the years starting from Akud. Early 2006 he alledgedly had dodgy Hb values, other than that there is nothing (specifically) suspicious about him.

Indeed perfectly fine. Is that 2009 pre-TdF?
BTW i never said something bad on Linus. Just wanted to make clear that skinny looks are no proof of doping. As football necks on quarterbacks are no proof of doping either...