Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[Benotti69]

Sofar the impartial scientist Andy Coggins.

So, VO2 max says nothing, w/k says nothing. Only Ed and Andy know the score of an 18% increase in efficiency. Froome's efficiency must have improved with 40%.

Good thing Kerrison contacted Cecchini's notebook for the prep.

PS: wasnt Hamilton always climbing in the saddle?

Wasn't it Moser who tried to stay in the saddle as long as possible while climbing and trained for it, something about putting it in the biggest gear he could and power up climbs?

 

[martinvickers]

The knucklehead commentating on Eurosport. He gushes over Sky daily.

Then watch alternatives, surely

 

[red_flanders]

So if Kurt Atle Arvesen suddenly becomes a GC contender, you won't bat an eye lid because he has a VO2 max of 93.

Does he? I don't know. Are you assuming I think V02 max is the only indicator of performance? If you are, probably not a good assumption.

Really this site will be a much better place if we don't all assume the other person has some ridiculous strawman position to attack.

If I had seen his V02 max to be 93 (if that's the case and I have no reason to doubt it) when he was a junior or neo-pro I would have said he's got a lot of potential. But it's only one indicator.

The point being (and I guess I'll repeat it) is that if Froome had such a V02 max it would go a long way to making his story more believable. There would still be huge questions about why he didn't perform forever before the breakout in the Vuelta, but they'd be in the context of someone who had at least one parameter which indicated super-stardom.

 

[kaffenback]

Think you are living in fantasy land, when has any form of professional sport been about anything other than money and egos. And that will never change

Not sure where in that post I said sport wasn't about money and egos.
I was hinting more about corruption and lies. That aspect of sport is a relatively modern phenomenon, certainly on the scale it has become and of course it ties in with the massive increase in money and relationships with tv/media.

you, as a "telly watcher" are living in fantasy land. I prefer getting out on the bike.. 6 hours a day...

 

[martinvickers]

oh look another upset british fellow
why do you even bother reading the clinic?
just stay in the safe haven of the newspaper comment sections

You don't get to decide where he posts.

Debate the points, not the man. And his nationality is irrelevant.

 

[LesDiablesRouges]

Alien maybe not the best word. "Once in a generation talent". I'm thinking Lemond was an "alien" in this context with his reported 92.



I don't know, and don't follow your point. I would find a sudden increase in his V02 max strange as I have always read that it's relatively untrainable. It moves, but not dramatically.

You didn't address the central points of my post. One, that we have no such record of Froome and that if we did, his performances would be much more palatable. Any thoughts on that? You seem to be dodging.

Well to be technical Vo2 is trainable in the sense that if you lie around all day your Vo2 max will decrease dramatically, but Yes it's not like you can hit a VO2 max of 80 and train up to 90. There's a ceiling and the only way to bypass is to alter your body in some unnatural manner or fashion i.e EPO or whatever it's now called these days

 

[martinvickers]

Censorship of the press, that sounds Orwellian....

I know Sky is a media empire (not sure if they conrol the Guardian), but really?

I'm not sure how the public comments section qualifies as 'the press'...

 

[red_flanders]

Well to be technical Vo2 is trainable in the sense that if you lie around all day your Vo2 max will decrease dramatically, but Yes it's not like you can hit a VO2 max of 80 and train up to 90. There's a ceiling and the only way to bypass is to alter your body in some unnatural manner or fashion i.e EPO or whatever it's now called these days

Thanks, we share a similar understanding. Appreciate the details, I'm no expert.

 

[No_Balls]

You don't get to decide where he posts.

Debate the points, not the man. And his nationality is irrelevant.

Reading comment sections at homeland newspapers (as well as in social media) tells us differently.

 

[martinvickers]

yup, me too. after listening, watching and reading a lot of coverage after sunday's stage you could really perceive a big change in tone across the board. to me a lot of it seemed underpinned with relief that they weren't in this tough spot anymore of obviously discussing this stuff amongst themselves for so long, but, for a variety of reasons, largely keeping it 'off-screen'.

On the first rest day, itv4 did a full segment (about 15 minutes) 'talking heads' set with Kimmage, Millar and Brailsford. Apparently they were going to do a recap of the Arsmtrong saga, but as Imlach said "we all know know, and we're sick to the back of giving him any more airtime"...

Whatever about Paul and Phil, Imlach's contempt for armstrong was fairly clear. Similarly after the talking heads, imlach and Chris Boardman did a 'summing up', the sum total of which was Boardman think's

a) T&R has to happen, and UCI as a possibly guilty party can't run it (indeed imlach explicitly asked how to deal with uci's possibly 'complicity' in the armstrong case, which is refreshingly mainstream..)

b) You need life bans for dopers, and severe punishments for teams with dopers, so teams police themselves for fear of the consequences - losing licences for the pro tour, forced time out (quite liked that actually - MFPP element's but souped up)

c) Garmin's 'pragmatic' approach was the one that made more sense than the ZTP (basically kimmage's position) but which ever you do pick, you have to stick to it (seemed like a subtle leinders rebuke, which again coming from a former insider like Brailsford was interesting)

The second rest day had ITV4 imlach doing a 'press roundup' including discussion of the FRoome Naturallement headline. The doping angle was a large part of the programme.

ITV aren't the clinic, they don't share clinic 'certainties' and phil and paul are phil and paul - but if you are suggesting the uk commentating media are ignoring the drugs angles, you're being pretty unfair, and frankly unrealistic - Eurosport maybe, but ITV have followed it for sure.

 

[gobuck]

vo2max goes up as weight goes down if all else stays the same

 

[martinvickers]

Reading comment sections at homeland newspapers (as well as in social media) tells us differently.

No, it doesn't. It does nothing of the sort.

Attack the points on the merits. The reason why the points were made is irrelevant - bollxology of the first water, and a form of ad hominem.

As i said, address the points. the rest id bullsh!t.

 

[tellywatcher]

Not sure where in that post I said sport wasn't about money and egos.
I was hinting more about corruption and lies. That aspect of sport is a relatively modern phenomenon, certainly on the scale it has become and of course it ties in with the massive increase in money and relationships with tv/media.

you, as a "telly watcher" are living in fantasy land. I prefer getting out on the bike.. 6 hours a day...

Yeah I also read a lot of books, as you're a sports journalist I assume you have come across some books detailing the corruption of baseball, boxing etc in the early 20th century. Modern professional sports don't even come close. I agree with a lot that you put forward, but it was never any better and will never be any better

 

[the sceptic]

You don't get to decide where he posts.

Debate the points, not the man. And his nationality is irrelevant.

His "point" was that the clinic is a bunch of clueless conspiracy theorists that only post rubbish without any evidence. Or something like that.

So i suggested that he should take his posting elsewhere if the clinic upsets him that much.

Sorry for bringing nationality into it, that was just a wild guess on my part obviously

 

[Deagol]

.... And his nationality is irrelevant.

Normally I would agree with this, but nationalism is a motivating factor in a lot of things such as this.

...
I'm not sure how the public comments section qualifies as 'the press'...

granted, probably not the best choice of words on my part. I've since been enlightened on Enlish Libel laws. It does seem unfortunate that website are self-editing comments based out of fear of being sued, though.. This does come down to self censorship based on fear.

....and phil and paul are phil and paul - ....

Are you saying that Phil & Paul are STILL involved in cycling "journalism"? Unbelievable. I thought at least Phil promised to retire if Armstrong was ever found to be a fraud...

 

[BYOP88]

Michael Hutchinson ‏@Doctor_Hutch 1h
Froome's just been asked if he as any TUE (therapeutic use exemptions for prescription medications). Says he has none. Interesting. #tdf

 

[timbo25]

History repeat itself, its all 1999 all over again, boys.

 

[the sceptic]

Michael Hutchinson ‏@Doctor_Hutch 1h
Froome's just been asked if he as any TUE (therapeutic use exemptions for prescription medications). Says he has none. Interesting. #tdf

oh thats why Brailsfraud is going to release them and Walsh was talking that up then.

 

[bigcog]

oh thats why Brailsfraud is going to release them and Walsh was talking that up then.

So you'd prefer them not to release them ?

 

[BYOP88]

oh thats why Brailsfraud is going to release them and Walsh was talking that up then.

Wouldn't he need 1 for his bilharzia drug?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

oh thats why Brailsfraud is going to release them and Walsh was talking that up then.

Also interesting in light of that bilharzia would actually give him a legitimate reason to claim a TUE for corticosteroids.

And also Hutchinson commented at the Worlds TT last year (or was it the Olympics) that when registering for the event the person he was registering with asked him what TUEs he was claiming and was amazed to discover that he was claiming none. I think it was the Worlds, but if it was the Olympics that would be more interesting as obviously Froome medalled there.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

LOL Really?

"we will end up with are dirty winners and losers."

Welcome to reality with humans in the World.

"Drama and romance" equals being destroyed and becoming irrelivant.
Pretty much as has happen to Britain post world war one.

The 90's and 00's have a lot of answer for in cycling not least the bordering on if not actually obssesive, pursuit of any outstanding result as "suspicious," as defined by a few self anointed few often without any real evidence.

If for to you see the damage it's a seemingly few taking lots of salad she wasn't to for too smell tossed boats of arrest.

 

[Red Lobster]

If for to you see the damage it's a seemingly few taking lots of salad she wasn't to for too smell tossed boats of arrest.

Either I suddenly can't read English or there is something seriously wrong with this sentence.

 

[doolols]

If for to you see the damage it's a seemingly few taking lots of salad she wasn't to for too smell tossed boats of arrest.

 

[the sceptic]

So you'd prefer them not to release them ?

i dont really care either way
if they release them that means Brailsford thinks its good for buisness to do so