Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[thehog]

I haven't read all of the above, but how could anyone here know, given the state of doctors on teams, whether a cyclist has asthma or not? This goes to claims he doesn't have it as well as claims that it can be proven he does.

There's simply no way to prove it either way.

There's no actual test that is definitive but a Doctor will use a "peak flow meter" which basically measure the amount of air you can inhale and expel.

People with weakened lungs due to asthma have trouble blowing levels of non-asthmatics.

It's a test but not definitive. There are several others signs that come up under MRI but not conclusive.

http://www.lung.org/lung-disease/as...our-asthma/measuring-your-peak-flow-rate.html

 

[thehog]

http://www.theroar.com.au/2014/06/12/didnt-know-froomes-asthma-now/

Good article. Basically stealing all my best posts

And why didn’t Froome mention any of this in his book?

In between his “soaring triumphs”, “humbling defeats” and countless pointed barbs directed towards teammate Bradley Wiggins, Froome talks ad nauseam about his propensity to pick up a cold; but not once did he think of mentioning that these colds could come down to asthma – something that would arguably make it even more of “a journey unlike any other in the history of cycling” that the back-page spiel claims his to be.
You also sense that somewhere David Walsh is smarting. The man who brought down Lance Armstrong has been embedded with Sky for the previous year or so and has given us what he and his publishers claim to be the “definitive story” of both Sky (Inside Team Sky) and, now, Froome.
But not once has the ghostwriter of The Climb mentioned Froome’s asthma. And that either puts a ***** in Walsh’s journalistic armour, or makes it look as if both Sky and Froome were pretty keen on keeping this one under wraps. At least until Monday’s stage on the Dauphine.

 

[ferryman]

What an interesting resemblance to Froomey-boy.

Does he also suffer from bilasthmia?

Not just yet, gotta lose that 1-2KG to get to fighting weght

 

[thehog]

Appears there's a few out there.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Probably on the bike that is on top of the car after he switched bikes.

Exactly this...

 

[Catwhoorg]

Appears there's a few out there.

I like Phinney's stance but that was posted in 2010, nothing to do with the last weeks events.

 

[Afrank]

I faintly recall that tweet, but what incident did it follow?

 

[thehog]

Some say a bigger problem is that medications like salbutamol can mask other doping agents.

"There's a general belief in the sport - I'm not sure it's true - that injecting corticoids into your body gives you a real performance boost," Stapleton said. "So if you use the inhaler, it's a way of saying 'Ah, this is why I have it in my blood.'

Fair point...

ALBI, France — For that little pick-me-up that helps them breathe easier, many Tour de France riders take hits on inhalers in a widespread practice that amounts to legalized doping.
Up to 40 percent of riders have doctor's notes allowing them to use drugs often prescribed for asthma that would normally be banned. Critics decry the practice, which is allowed under World Anti-Doping Agency rules.

"This is a global joke," said Dr. Werner Franke, a German doping expert. "You'll always find a doctor who will write down a few notes that you have asthma-like difficulties in breathing.

"It would be fair to have two Tours de France - one for the asthmatics and one for non-asthmatics," he said. "The funny result would be that the asthmatics would be much faster."

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/2007-07-20-3694433468_x.htm

 

[red_flanders]

Even a doctor may not be able to prove the presence of asthma. They often only prescribe based on self-described symptoms and/or problems. A doctor can be deceived.

Absolutely. And beyond that, doctors in teams are fully incentivized to offer medical advice and prescriptions that they would not in a normal situation. There are and have been some super shady characters in that role.

EDIT: post above says this much better than I have.

 

[autologous]

The medical 'facts' were subsequently demolished. And to suggest that the posts since are not in support of the bolded is double-talk of the highest order.

You know what would help interpreting the double-talk ? To know what was in Froome's inhaler.

Do YOU know?
If so, how do you know?

 

[Hawkwood]

There's no actual test that is definitive but a Doctor will use a "peak flow meter" which basically measure the amount of air you can inhale and expel.

People with weakened lungs due to asthma have trouble blowing levels of non-asthmatics.

It's a test but not definitive. There are several others signs that come up under MRI but not conclusive.

http://www.lung.org/lung-disease/as...our-asthma/measuring-your-peak-flow-rate.html

I was first diagnosed by anaesthetist, I was about to be operated on and he listened to my lungs through a stethoscope, he looked a bit disturbed and asked was I aware that I was asthmatic? I was given salbutamol immediately, and the inhaler was taped to my wrist. The give away in my case was the wheezing sound coming from my airways, at that time my peak flow was very good. The very tight chest feeling coupled with breathing problems I'd had for years was immediately explained.

 

[Beech Mtn]

Probably on the bike that is on top of the car after he switched bikes.

Ah, that explains it. Thanks. For a minute there I thought Contador might've stolen it when he wasn't looking at his stem.

 

[Granville57]

I faintly recall that tweet, but what incident did it follow?

Likely Contador's clenbuta-gate?

[Edit]
Yup
http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/09/news/contador-tests-positive-for-clenbuterol_143791

 

[muhua33]

That would be like taking Clenbuterol mid race. What do you think he would expect - to lose 2 kilos before the top of the climb?

No my point was that he is trying lose weight, like he said, for the tour. I wasn't saying he losing weight for that specific climb.

 

[blackcat]

What an interesting resemblance to Froomey-boy.

Does he also suffer from bilasthmia?

froome dawg
dawg is not boy

 

[Cimber]

Very interesting write about Froome and Sky (not only regarding doping). Its in Danish so please use your favorite translation tool:

http://veloropa.dk/problemet-med-team-sky/

And also an Australian article about asthma-gate

http://www.theroar.com.au/2014/06/12/didnt-know-froomes-asthma-now/

 

[mrhender]

Wada lifted the ban of salbutamol because studies showed no proof of performance enhancing effects.

http://www.runnerslife.co.uk/support-team/medical/asthma-inhalers

This study from Bisbebjerg Hospital in Denmark showed that it had no effect what so ever to the performance and the conclusion was:

Large amounts of salbutamol didn't give the athletes iron lungs, as the men in both groups huffed and puffed as they exercised. They all performed, and tired out, in similar ways. In fact, the only difference found in the subjects who used the salbutamol inhaler was that they retained drug levels in their urine that were, on average, nearly three times higher than the current WADA standards, levels which would have most certainly raised many questions and could have possibly excluded them from a sanctioned competition



So why all the fuss obout wether or not he is using asthma inhaler?
A quick search on google tells me that using asthma inhalers is common in most sports...

For me it is not important that/ if he uses an inhaler with salbutamol or the likes of it.. The real question is what is in his inhaler??

 

[mrhender]

Very interesting write about Froome and Sky (not only regarding doping). Its in Danish so please use your favorite translation tool:

http://veloropa.dk/problemet-med-team-sky/

And also an Australian article about astha-gate

http://www.theroar.com.au/2014/06/12/didnt-know-froomes-asthma-now/

Indeed an interesting and broad article..
The fact that people in and around the cycling environment is starting to be more critical to the Froome adventure is very positive.
I would hate to see SKY and Skywalker fool all the world for a decade with this fairytale...

 

[Hawkwood]

For me it is not important that/ if he uses an inhaler with salbutamol or the likes of it.. The real question is what is in his inhaler??

I don't know. I do know that many people use them incorrectly thus not getting the proper dose. The instructions on mine are to inhale and hold your breath for as long as possible, and at least for 10 seconds!

 

[Cycle Chic]

Laura Trott

Interesting read about Laura Trott's asthma...

Laura Trott: Asthma made me a winner......She’s learned to cope with the coughing fits which follow races or strenuous training sessions and has been lucky that she’s only ever suffered two serious asthma attacks. ..

http://www.express.co.uk/news/health/381793/Laura-Trott-Asthma-made-me-a-winner

 

[Hawkwood]

Interesting read about Laura Trott's asthma...

http://www.express.co.uk/news/health/381793/Laura-Trott-Asthma-made-me-a-winner

Interesting read, she says she gets an excess acid build up in her stomach, I've read this can be caused by allergic rhinitis that can go hand in hand with asthma.

 

[Ventoux Boar]

You know what would help interpreting the double-talk ? To know what was in Froome's inhaler.

Do YOU know?
If so, how do you know?

Ask thehog. He's the one with the truth. While you're at it, ask him to back up his statement that Froome is lying about his asthma.

 

[Hawkwood]

Ask thehog. He's the one with the truth. While you're at it, ask him to back up his statement that Froome is lying about his asthma.

The `what was in the inhaler' is an interesting question. I've just done a bit of a search and it appears that with the exception of two products, all of the drugs are for asthma/COPD. The exceptions I found were a device containing an analgesic, but it appears to be quite a large device, plus one for influenza.

 

[hiero2]

froome dawg
dawg is not boy

Sorry if that bothers ya, but after the way he's acted this past year, I no longer have sufficient respect for Froome as a person to want to even concede the modest and dubious honor of the diminutive nick dawg. So it'll be boy until I can see him acting with a bit more something like honor.

 

[zigmeister]

Maybe he does know what will trigger it?....big effort/climb coming up for example.

I made that same point in your response to me. He *thinks* he might have a reaction, fine, you take a hit. But my next paragraph said, hmmmm...why have we never seen him do this before? Or even brought up and mentioned?

Exactly, you can be tested for the triggers, or you can work them out for yourself, it's not rocket science, it's lesson 1 of being an asthmatic. Air getting drier and colder going up a climb will be a trigger for some.

True, I've done the same. I didn't need a doctor to tell me what my condition was. Cold weather exercised induces asthma, allergy induced asthma. I take a few things when necessary, including singular 5mg/day. Same point as above. But I've been to the doctor for confirmation and testing. There are standard tests using inhalers to determine if you have certain conditions, that assumes you are experiencing them at that time though.

Ironically I did a Google for Salbutamol (Albuterol) weight loss, and looky here what I found:

http://www.livestrong.com/article/381131-albuterol-for-weight-loss/

Yes, nothing new, as well as using ephedrine, which guess what? Is allowed without a TUE like other items, as long as it is under certain limits. In weigh lifting/body building/fitness world it is a called the ECA stack. (Ephedrine, Caffeine, Aspirin) to increase metabolism and burn fat/calories while you "cut" weight to get lean.

Where is Froome's power meter?

He had a bike change for a flat late in the stage...gave him a new bike.

Fair point...



http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/2007-07-20-3694433468_x.htm

Yes, perfect point I've been making like a broken record over and over in many threads about defining what performance enhacement is. This guy agrees with me. Fascinating!

Wada lifted the ban of salbutamol because studies showed no proof of performance enhancing effects.

http://www.runnerslife.co.uk/support-team/medical/asthma-inhalers

This study from Bisbebjerg Hospital in Denmark showed that it had no effect what so ever to the performance and the conclusion was:

Large amounts of salbutamol didn't give the athletes iron lungs, as the men in both groups huffed and puffed as they exercised. They all performed, and tired out, in similar ways. In fact, the only difference found in the subjects who used the salbutamol inhaler was that they retained drug levels in their urine that were, on average, nearly three times higher than the current WADA standards, levels which would have most certainly raised many questions and could have possibly excluded them from a sanctioned competition

I posted a similar study about 20 pages back. The point with these are that the "athletes" tested were normal, they didn't and were not diagnosed with asthma or any respiratory illness. And it didn't improve performance.

There is no study I could find for people like "Froome", who say they have asthma, to measure their performance with asthmatic reactions, and after they use the inhaler. That is the point. Obviously, there will be a marked difference and improvement, hence, why I always argue performance is relative. If you went from ZERO peformance due to asthma, take your inhaler hit, then you can perform and ride...that is performance enhancement. Making some arbitrary judgement and comparison against another person is meaningless...because there is no "normal".