Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[zigmeister]

Not sure how far you looked, but results of what drugs are available in what form will vary quite a bit from country to country.

I find it quite difficult to find on the internet details of what is available even as close to me as Canada. Never mind South Africa or Kenya, Columbia, etc.

To do this research, you first have the problem of is it a controlled substance or OTC. Then you have the condition and vitality of the grey/black market. In many parts of the world, the "black" market is as strong as the regulated market.

Then you could also have the problem of custom-filled inhalers. I'd be willing to bet one could get something like that without a great cost - if you knew someone with the right equipment.

It is STILL an interesting question - what was in the inhaler. And, would I believe Froome if he told me?

I'm just pointing out that researching this by looking at what is on the market may be difficult.

Beta2 agonist are all pretty much the same, or just branded/labeled different. Salbutemol/albuterol are identical. They are NOT cortico-steroids.

Now, Ventolin/Flovent ARE (fluticasone propionate) glucocorticoids.

But, we know from the inhaler, that is the classic salbutemol Froome was using. So, making some statement about inhalers in this instance, does not apply.

Whenever I'm feeling a bit down, I know I can always pop in here, and have a good laugh. "Round and round she goes ..." with the same old nonsense time after time.

"We've never seen him use an inhaler before ..." Have you had a camera staring at him during the easier portions of a race, stage after stage? Just because you haven't seen an event, doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

The pretty much have had cameras on Froome, nearly the entire time since the TDF, yes, funny how we just haven't seen this previously.

Inhaled cortisone (legal) would 'mask' other cortisone use (which may not be legal IC) quite nicely.

Yes, as I mentioned above, we know Froome was using Salbutemol, not a glucocorticoids. I don't know enough about the detection methods and discerning different corticosteroids from each other. We would need more info to make that determination whether it would mask it or not. Can't find anything to show it can/can't at the moment.

I think Hog was saying that we know that Sky use cortisone injections, not necessarily that we know they use asthma medications to conceal this usage.

As mentioned earlier, a very specific inhaled medication like Flovent (glucocorticoid) which is the same as Flonase for your sinuses, just inhaled, is fluticasone propionate. One is delivered via vapor inhaled, the other you squirt up your nose. Then possibly, but not likely unless you really took large quantities.

Oral dosages needed for performance enhancement of cortisone, have to be of a significant number 10mg-25mg at a time. Due to the short half-life, 3-4hrs of them, and quick absorption. Whether the testing can discern between the types of corticosteroids/glucocorticoid, not sure.

 

[red_flanders]

But, we know from the inhaler, that is the classic salbutemol Froome was using. So, making some statement about inhalers in this instance, does not apply.

Can you elaborate? I take a drug called Alvesco when I have issues. It's an inhaled corticosteroid. It looks the same (from what I can see) as the inhaler Froome was using.

How do we know what drug was in the inhaler? Is there a closer look at it? Thanks.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Forgive me if this was already addressed, but whatever it is, what is the effectiveness of one puff while breathing heavily? I realize the procedure would be different for different medications, but doesn't it usually involve holding your breath? Use of a chamber? Or a few repetitions?

 

[Catwhoorg]

Forgive me if this was already addressed, but whatever it is, what is the effectiveness of one puff while breathing heavily? I realize the procedure would be different for different medications, but doesn't it usually involve holding your breath? Use of a chamber? Or a few repetitions?

1-2 puffs is a normal dose, you push down as you inhale. (remember 16 puffs per day is the threshold for needing a TUE)

Deeply inhaled (and ideally held for a few seconds).

The chamber is more commonly used with Children (or animals), it would not be used with a competent adult.

 

[thehog]

Deeply inhaled (and ideally held for a few seconds).

t.

This is why I thought it was odd that he took it when he did and the way he did. Never seen it done like that and Ive never done it like that. Primarily because you just blow out the entire contents when you're breathing hard and going full speed.

Thats why no one has ever seen in on TV before. Because you either take it before you start, in a feed zone or when going slow, so you can get the entire contents down into your lungs.

 

[red_flanders]

1-2 puffs is a normal dose, you push down as you inhale. (remember 16 puffs per day is the threshold for needing a TUE)

Deeply inhaled (and ideally held for a few seconds).

The chamber is more commonly used with Children (or animals), it would not be used with a competent adult.

Not important, but incorrect. The chamber maximizes the intake for anyone. Commonly prescribed to adults.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Not important, but incorrect. The chamber maximizes the intake for anyone. Commonly prescribed to adults.

I'll stand corrected.

The only time I have ever seen it used is in children or animals.

 

[Jack (6 ch)]

hereafter a list of notorious asthmatics :
Marcel Proust
Jan Ullrich
http://www.dhnet.be/archive/l-asthme-d-ullrich-51b86884e4b0de6db9a4c4d1
Miguel Indurain
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/drugs-in-sport-indurain-allowed-to-use-banned-drug-1386683.html
Oscar Pereiro
http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=features/2007/mcquaid_pereiro
Alex Zulle
positive for salbutamol in 93
Tony Rominger
positive for salbutamol in 94

All these guys, except Marcel Proust, are recent grand tour winners, have done blood doping, are asthmatics, ran into trouble because of their ventolin

Do you think Froome has more in common with these guys or with Marcel Proust ?

Proust and Froome both wrote books which are pretty heavy going?

 

[The Hitch]

Proust and Froome both wrote books which are pretty heavy going?

From the excerpts I've seen of "the climb", he has more in common with those guys than Proust.

 

[HSNHSN]

From the excerpts I've seen of "the climb", he has more in common with those guys than Proust.

How can we say? We haven't seen anything Froome wrote himself, have we?

Also, I'm not sure if I would still call Indurain, Zülle and Rominger recent GT winners.

 

[senatorrick]

How can we say? We haven't seen anything Froome wrote himself, have we?

Also, I'm not sure if I would still call Indurain, Zülle and Rominger recent GT winners.

Thank you for that post. (Recent )

 

[muhua33]

Now, Ventolin/Flovent ARE (fluticasone propionate) glucocorticoids.

Ventolin is albuterol sulfate (beta2-adrenergic agonist) and Flovent is an inhaled corticosteroid. I don't know why some are saying that you can tell from the inhaler. Flovent also comes in the HFA (aerosol) inhaler as well as the Diskus (powder) model.

The information is on Ventolin website and the Flovent website.
I think he would have to have a TUE for the Flovent because it is a corticosteroid but not for Ventolin or any other beta2-adrenergic agonist.

 

[GreasyMonkey]

Ventolin is albuterol sulfate (beta2-adrenergic agonist) and Flovent is an inhaled corticosteroid. I don't know why some are saying that you can tell from the inhaler. Flovent also comes in the HFA (aerosol) inhaler as well as the Diskus (powder) model.

The information is on Ventolin website and the Flovent website.
I think he would have to have a TUE for the Flovent because it is a corticosteroid but not for Ventolin or any other beta2-adrenergic agonist.

IIRC there is no longer a requirement for a TUE to use inhaled or topical corticosteroids, only for corticosteroids using systemic administered methods such as oral, IV, IM or anal.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

IIRC there is no longer a requirement for a TUE to use inhaled or topical corticosteroids, only for corticosteroids using systemic administered methods such as oral, IV, IM or anal.

Perianal is fine, rectal however, is not. As our great leader may have said, "Not everyone can be the suppository of corticosteroid wisdom".


More here: http://www.uci.ch/templates/UCI/UCI2/layout.asp?MenuId=MTU2ODY&LangId=1
Our prime minister here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIOM9kpTaho

 

[msjett]

I have used the flovent Diskus shaped inhaler, that is pretty good stuff. It was the only thing that would stop me coughing so I could breath and sleep. For the record I don't have Asthma, I used it for an illness.

 

[42x16ss]

Perianal is fine, rectal however, is not. As our great leader may have said, "Not everyone can be the suppository of corticosteroid wisdom".


More here: http://www.uci.ch/templates/UCI/UCI2/layout.asp?MenuId=MTU2ODY&LangId=1
Our prime minister here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIOM9kpTaho

You owe me a new monitor, keyboard and afternoon espresso!

 

[zigmeister]

Can you elaborate? I take a drug called Alvesco when I have issues. It's an inhaled corticosteroid. It looks the same (from what I can see) as the inhaler Froome was using.

How do we know what drug was in the inhaler? Is there a closer look at it? Thanks.

That is red/brown plastic delivery holder, with red labeling on the actual container inside. Salbutemol is the classic off blue. Flovent is a reddish/brown. Not saying someone can't just take the container and switch the plastic cover/deliver device, to try and disguise the metal container that holds the medicine with it's labeling. Would be pretty easy for anybody who got a closer look to discern what it is, plus writing on the label. We can't see that in the video though.

In the US, very clear marketing/labeling to identify the exact approved drug is required. So some other company can't have the same blue colored inhaler that is approved. Same with pills, they have to be specifically labeled/stamped/color etc...to help alleviate errors while dispensing medicines, and for users of the product. Imagine some kid who is prescribed this, ends up with some other drug with the same marking/color, takes a hit...uh-oh!!! That ain't albuterol, it is vaporized E-cigarettes and nicotine...shock, death..ER visit. Etc...

Ventolin is albuterol sulfate (beta2-adrenergic agonist) and Flovent is an inhaled corticosteroid. I don't know why some are saying that you can tell from the inhaler. Flovent also comes in the HFA (aerosol) inhaler as well as the Diskus (powder) model.

The information is on Ventolin website and the Flovent website.
I think he would have to have a TUE for the Flovent because it is a corticosteroid but not for Ventolin or any other beta2-adrenergic agonist.

Depends on who made it. But as I mentioned above, the classic blue Salbutemol plastic delivery holder, unless someone tried to take some other flovent/glucocorticoid inside of that and swap the container to "disguise" it. But getting closer, you would see the actual drug name/writing, because it appears above the plastic holder's side, the name of the drug. Otherwise, they have their identifiable writing and color to easily discern between the various types.

But alas, a TUE is not needed for many drugs, and none of these even require a TUE taken inhaled. Only orally/IV as a delivery method.

But the other question still remains, why have we not seen him over the past 1-2yr taking hits off this thing. He is always on the camera. When you are leading races and winning like he is, there is no hiding from the 20 moto cameras on the stage unless he is ducking/covering in an obvious manner to hide it. But then, other riders would see this as well. But then again, to the riders, apparently seeing a bunch of guys puffing on inhalers in the Peloton is complete normal/business as usual!!

 

[Tinman]

Perianal is fine, rectal however, is not. As our great leader may have said, "Not everyone can be the suppository of corticosteroid wisdom".


More here: http://www.uci.ch/templates/UCI/UCI2/layout.asp?MenuId=MTU2ODY&LangId=1
Our prime minister here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIOM9kpTaho

Brilliant work DW. Thanks for the laughter you regularly provide. The perianal stuff could only come from a Big Ring.

 

[Fzotrlool]

So tomorrow is the big day. Do you think Froome will be seen with the inhaler in his mouth again? Probably just before the penultimate climb.

 

[hiero2]

So tomorrow is the big day. Do you think Froome will be seen with the inhaler in his mouth again? Probably just before the penultimate climb.

If he is, I can only think it would be a terrible PR event.

Nightmare in Inhaler city.

 

[blackcat]

From the excerpts I've seen of "the climb", he has more in common with those guys than Proust.

hehehehehe

who was the ghostwriter? hummer?

 

[blackcat]

hereafter a list of notorious asthmatics :
Marcel Proust
Jan Ullrich
http://www.dhnet.be/archive/l-asthme-d-ullrich-51b86884e4b0de6db9a4c4d1
Miguel Indurain
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/drugs-in-sport-indurain-allowed-to-use-banned-drug-1386683.html
Oscar Pereiro
http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=features/2007/mcquaid_pereiro
Alex Zulle
positive for salbutamol in 93
Tony Rominger
positive for salbutamol in 94

All these guys, except Marcel Proust, are recent grand tour winners, have done blood doping, are asthmatics, ran into trouble because of their ventolin

Do you think Froome has more in common with these guys or with Marcel Proust ?

or is it counds proustien flourish?

she is a journo, she may'a' been the ghost

 

[Will Carter]

If he is, I can only think it would be a terrible PR event.

Nightmare in Inhaler city.

He probably will be (if its caught on camera), but it means nothing - if its within limits the its ok. What would be more interesting is if we see other contenders with an inhaler ...

 

[Will Carter]

Yes. Why do the people in wheelchairs get to have all the fun?

Hey Hog - can you explain that comment (even if you have to do it by PM), I just don't understand it!

 

[thehog]

Hey Hog - can you explain that comment (even if you have to do it by PM), I just don't understand it!

Its irony. Or a play on words that those whom have lost ability to walk get to zoom around on chairs with wheels. And people who have legs have to walk.

It was in response to your post that implied asthmatics have some form of advantage over those who don't have asthma.

As asthmatics just love waking up in their sleep not being able to breath. Not fun and very scary cutting oxygen off from your brain when you're not awake to realise what's happening.

Take no offense, I was just a trying to use humor to make a point.