Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Re:

Walsh said in "The Armstrong Lie" that the organizers wanted a slower Tour than they had during the Festina Scandal Tour, but that '99 was the fastest ever and because of this Armstrong was a doper. In other words, Walsh won't let obstacles like logic or common sense stop him from using the average speed of a stage race as a whole as proof of whichever narrative he wants to spin.

Walsh is and was a july cycling fan. Whith all that 'Tour de Redemption 1999' crap he basicly states he doesnt watch other cycling than the Tour. He missed Frank VdB 1999 going gungho in the Classics, Boogerd too, Pantani at the Giro partying, Ullrich and VdB at the Vuelta. No, only Armstrong doped that year...

Walsh is an incompetent fan with a typewriter, again. He doesnt dislike dopers, he just dislikes some.

 

[Saint Unix]

Froome's Ventoux stage win may have been one of the fastest ever for a HC mountain stage.

Exactly. The average speed argument only works if the parcours and conditions for a stage or a race are identical to a previous year, and they never are. It's a useless argument to make, but it's probably an easy way to score more points with the cycling novices in the "Sky is clean" collumn without having to go through the effort of making sense. Especially when he can just keep blocking anyone calling him out on his crap.

 

[Walkman]

Re: Re:

Walsh accused Contador over his climbing speed in '07. FGL pointed out that climbing speeds in '13 were the same as '07 yet Walsh thinks the riders, notably Froome, are clean. FGL was not asking about Contador or TT speed, he was asking about that big African elephant in the room...

You have fallen for Walsh's misdirection I'm afraid. He knew full well what FGL was getting at, that's why he blocked him.

I seem to think that in 07, Contador was climbing with rasmussen, in 13 he was getting dropped by kreuziger, i really dont think 07 Contador would have got dropped by kreuziger. Has someone got the numbers that show Alberto 13 was at the same level as 07?

Please read my post. This is not about Contador, everyone already knows he is a doper.

Ok, but i dont think you can compare two different athletes, Froome achieving doped Contador numbers does not necessarly mean he is doped. Otherwise by that logic if i was to dope and archive 350 watts up tourmalet, then anyone achieving those numbers or more would be doping. That is an absurd thing to say and not true. It may be that Froome is just more talented than Contador.

Adding yourself in is ridiculous, unless you happen to be a world tour pro climber? It is a non sequitur:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_(logic)


Contador is widely accepted as the greatest GT rider of his generation, with numbers higher than many other known dopers. He is also widely recognised by many as a blood doper. To suggest that Froome, who was hanging onto motorbikes to survive a few years ago is a more talented GT rider than Contador is, frankly, insane and exactly why you will get accused of trolling in the clinic.

I am not a Contador fan, I won't discuss him outside the clinic because I don't believe you really can, but he is clearly one of the best GT riders ever. The likelihood of anyone beating his best clean is extremely small. History and common sense tells us that.

Among the fanboys perhaps. And I seem to remember another rider who was labeled "the greatest GT rider of his generation" and as it turned out he wasn't that talented at all…

Maybe he shares the "Best responder award" with Lance.

 

[The Hitch]

I think you are misreading this as a contador thread. Since the entire cycling world seems to revolve around contador for you, even this the froome thread becomes about contador. But it's not. It's about froome. Contador was chemically enhanced. Still is. He's a doper who thanks to doping became amazing. Walsh was right that his 07 speeds were impossible. Those few who spoke out in 2009 about verbier were also right. And now it's the dame story with froome. You don't climb and tt that fast day after day for 6 months clean. Especially not if you couldn't even make the tdf squad for most of your career.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Looks like Walkman took his shades of.

Good post Hitch.

 

[Ramon Koran]

Re:

I think you are misreading this as a contador thread. Since the entire cycling world seems to revolve around contador for you, even this the froome thread becomes about contador. But it's not. It's about froome. Contador was chemically enhanced. Still is. He's a doper who thanks to doping became amazing. Walsh was right that his 07 speeds were impossible. Those few who spoke out in 2009 about verbier were also right. And now it's the dame story with froome. You don't climb and tt that fast day after day for 6 months clean. Especially not if you couldn't even make the tdf squad for most of your career.

So because Contador and Armstrong couldnt do it clean no one else could? Have you ever thought that maybe Froome thanks to being born in altitude and thanks to his cure from an energy saping disease can?

 

[ebandit]

LOL..........if da dawg...........alberto.........lance at their best ( perhaps most doped ) were lined up

together climbing a series of HC climbs how many would da dawg climb fastest? my guess would

be none.....

Mark L

 

[BYOP88]

Re: Re:

I think you are misreading this as a contador thread. Since the entire cycling world seems to revolve around contador for you, even this the froome thread becomes about contador. But it's not. It's about froome. Contador was chemically enhanced. Still is. He's a doper who thanks to doping became amazing. Walsh was right that his 07 speeds were impossible. Those few who spoke out in 2009 about verbier were also right. And now it's the dame story with froome. You don't climb and tt that fast day after day for 6 months clean. Especially not if you couldn't even make the tdf squad for most of your career.

So because Contador and Armstrong couldnt do it clean no one else could? Have you ever thought that maybe Froome thanks to being born in altitude and thanks to his cure from an energy saping disease can?

What about Basso, Ullrich, Sastre, Evans, Wiggins, Pantini, Riis, Savoldelli, Simoni, Heras, Menchov and every other GT winner. If you look back through the history of GT winners, what do they have in common?

 

[Saint Unix]

Re: Re:

So because Contador and Armstrong couldnt do it clean no one else could? Have you ever thought that maybe Froome thanks to being born in altitude and thanks to his cure from an energy saping disease can?

If being born at altitude is such a massive advantage, Froome should have shown it from the very beginning. He didn't show it at all before 2011. That's a fact.

He also didn't have bilharzia during his first years as a pro when he rode for Barloworld. Why wasn't he racking up stage wins on MTFs and winning GTs with his lack of bilharzia and his permanent altitude boost that he gained on his way out of the womb?

It doesn't add up.

 

[BYOP88]

Re: Re:

So because Contador and Armstrong couldnt do it clean no one else could? Have you ever thought that maybe Froome thanks to being born in altitude and thanks to his cure from an energy saping disease can?

If being born at altitude is such a massive advantage, Froome should have shown it from the very beginning. He didn't show it at all before 2011. That's a fact.

He also didn't have bilharzia during his first years as a pro when he rode for Barloworld. Why wasn't he racking up stage wins on MTFs and winning GTs?

It doesn't add up.

But dude he like totally followed Menchov on Alpe d'Huez for like a km or two in 2009, if that doesn't scream out future GT winner, I don't know what does.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

Walsh accused Contador over his climbing speed in '07. FGL pointed out that climbing speeds in '13 were the same as '07 yet Walsh thinks the riders, notably Froome, are clean. FGL was not asking about Contador or TT speed, he was asking about that big African elephant in the room...

You have fallen for Walsh's misdirection I'm afraid. He knew full well what FGL was getting at, that's why he blocked him.

I seem to think that in 07, Contador was climbing with rasmussen, in 13 he was getting dropped by kreuziger, i really dont think 07 Contador would have got dropped by kreuziger. Has someone got the numbers that show Alberto 13 was at the same level as 07?

Please read my post. This is not about Contador, everyone already knows he is a doper.

Ok, but i dont think you can compare two different athletes, Froome achieving doped Contador numbers does not necessarly mean he is doped. Otherwise by that logic if i was to dope and archive 350 watts up tourmalet, then anyone achieving those numbers or more would be doping. That is an absurd thing to say and not true. It may be that Froome is just more talented than Contador.

Pfft, tbf, it's completely natural to be unable to hand on the grupettos in the mountains and suddenly become the best climber in the world within 3 years. Yeah, he had bilzharia, and yeah, he's training much harder now, but you're a fool if you actually believe that Froome is clean.

Froome is by far my favourite GC contender, as it's truly remarkable how someone born in Kenya, with limited opportunities, has reached the position he is in now. Also, by the same token, I'm pretty sure Froome and his rivals are on a completely level playing field. However, there is simply no way you can convince me that Froome is clean himself, and I struggle to see how anyone who watched cycling before this decade can believe and of the current top 4 (the best GC rider I personally believe is clean atm is probably Pinot, and there are at least 7-8 GC riders who are capable of achieving better results than him

 

[Ramon Koran]

Re: Re:

So because Contador and Armstrong couldnt do it clean no one else could? Have you ever thought that maybe Froome thanks to being born in altitude and thanks to his cure from an energy saping disease can?

If being born at altitude is such a massive advantage, Froome should have shown it from the very beginning. He didn't show it at all before 2011. That's a fact.

He also didn't have bilharzia during his first years as a pro when he rode for Barloworld. Why wasn't he racking up stage wins on MTFs and winning GTs with his lack of bilharzia and his permanent altitude boost that he gained on his way out of the womb?

It doesn't add up.

It makes perfect sense Froome due to ilness can not perform to his best, when he is cured he starts winning, coincidence? I think not.

 

[peloton]

Nice post Andrew, and I agree, I think it's possible that Pinot might be clean, like for real.

 

[Saint Unix]

Before his illness the most remarkable thing about Froome was that he was from Kenya, and that was sort of interesting even if he wasn't very good. Then, since the man himself can't even keep up with the timeline of his disease, things get a little hazy, but there was a lot of pushing Henderson, being rated as the worst physiological specimen in the Sky team, hanging on to motorbikes and expiring contracts before he suddenly turned into the best GC rider in the world.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Re:

What is wrong with what Ramon Koran wrote?
I think it´s one great sarcastic post. I love it.

I appologize. I really thought he was being sarcastic... I was dead wrong.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Pfft, tbf, it's completely natural to be unable to hand on the grupettos in the mountains and suddenly become the best climber in the world within 3 years. Yeah, he had bilzharia, and yeah, he's training much harder now, but you're a fool if you actually believe that Froome is clean.

Froome is by far my favourite GC contender, as it's truly remarkable how someone born in Kenya, with limited opportunities, has reached the position he is in now. Also, by the same token, I'm pretty sure Froome and his rivals are on a completely level playing field. However, there is simply no way you can convince me that Froome is clean himself, and I struggle to see how anyone who watched cycling before this decade can believe and of the current top 4 (the best GC rider I personally believe is clean atm is probably Pinot, and there are at least 7-8 GC riders who are capable of achieving better results than him

Honestly, Froome may be from Kenya, but he grew up in South Africa, and there's a huge difference between coming from a rich, white family in Africa and a poor, black family. Froome had plenty of opportunities (of course that doesn't mean it isn't special that he's from Africa )

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Walsh accused Contador over his climbing speed in '07. FGL pointed out that climbing speeds in '13 were the same as '07 yet Walsh thinks the riders, notably Froome, are clean. FGL was not asking about Contador or TT speed, he was asking about that big African elephant in the room...

You have fallen for Walsh's misdirection I'm afraid. He knew full well what FGL was getting at, that's why he blocked him.

I seem to think that in 07, Contador was climbing with rasmussen, in 13 he was getting dropped by kreuziger, i really dont think 07 Contador would have got dropped by kreuziger. Has someone got the numbers that show Alberto 13 was at the same level as 07?

Please read my post. This is not about Contador, everyone already knows he is a doper.

Ok, but i dont think you can compare two different athletes, Froome achieving doped Contador numbers does not necessarly mean he is doped. Otherwise by that logic if i was to dope and archive 350 watts up tourmalet, then anyone achieving those numbers or more would be doping. That is an absurd thing to say and not true. It may be that Froome is just more talented than Contador.

Pfft, tbf, it's completely natural to be unable to hand on the grupettos in the mountains and suddenly become the best climber in the world within 3 years. Yeah, he had bilzharia, and yeah, he's training much harder now, but you're a fool if you actually believe that Froome is clean.

Froome is by far my favourite GC contender, as it's truly remarkable how someone born in Kenya, with limited opportunities, has reached the position he is in now. Also, by the same token, I'm pretty sure Froome and his rivals are on a completely level playing field. However, there is simply no way you can convince me that Froome is clean himself, and I struggle to see how anyone who watched cycling before this decade can believe and of the current top 4 (the best GC rider I personally believe is clean atm is probably Pinot, and there are at least 7-8 GC riders who are capable of achieving better results than him

How can it be a level playing field?

Who is 'measuring' the quantities of dope being taken by each rider?

Who is 'measuring' the way a rider responds to each PED to balance it out so they all get the same level of response?

The only 'level playing field' possible is for everyone to ride clean.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

So because Contador and Armstrong couldnt do it clean no one else could? Have you ever thought that maybe Froome thanks to being born in altitude and thanks to his cure from an energy saping disease can?

If being born at altitude is such a massive advantage, Froome should have shown it from the very beginning. He didn't show it at all before 2011. That's a fact.

He also didn't have bilharzia during his first years as a pro when he rode for Barloworld. Why wasn't he racking up stage wins on MTFs and winning GTs with his lack of bilharzia and his permanent altitude boost that he gained on his way out of the womb?

It doesn't add up.

It makes perfect sense Froome due to ilness can not perform to his best, when he is cured he starts winning, coincidence? I think not.

Please read the second paragraph of St Unix's post again and address the point made there.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

So because Contador and Armstrong couldnt do it clean no one else could? Have you ever thought that maybe Froome thanks to being born in altitude and thanks to his cure from an energy saping disease can?

If being born at altitude is such a massive advantage, Froome should have shown it from the very beginning. He didn't show it at all before 2011. That's a fact.

He also didn't have bilharzia during his first years as a pro when he rode for Barloworld. Why wasn't he racking up stage wins on MTFs and winning GTs with his lack of bilharzia and his permanent altitude boost that he gained on his way out of the womb?

It doesn't add up.

It makes perfect sense Froome due to ilness can not perform to his best, when he is cured he starts winning, coincidence? I think not.

It doesn't even make perfect sense to Froome as he has told so many different versions of his Bilharzia sometimes in the same interview that it is so funny that people think Froome is clean but what is funnier is that some think a clean Froome can be dopers.

 

[Ramon Koran]

Re: Re:

So because Contador and Armstrong couldnt do it clean no one else could? Have you ever thought that maybe Froome thanks to being born in altitude and thanks to his cure from an energy saping disease can?

If being born at altitude is such a massive advantage, Froome should have shown it from the very beginning. He didn't show it at all before 2011. That's a fact.

He also didn't have bilharzia during his first years as a pro when he rode for Barloworld. Why wasn't he racking up stage wins on MTFs and winning GTs with his lack of bilharzia and his permanent altitude boost that he gained on his way out of the womb?

It doesn't add up.

It makes perfect sense Froome due to ilness can not perform to his best, when he is cured he starts winning, coincidence? I think not.

Please read the second paragraph of St Unix's post again and address the point made there.

During his first years Froome showed promise, he won some u23 events, and finished in some respectable positions, in the 2008 tour he launched a powerful attack before ricco this at the slender age of 23, in the folloWing years giro still 23 he finished 34 th despite riding for a weak team to many people he could top 10 a gt one day, even win one. He then got ill and became irregular but let's not forget he finished second behind sir Bradley Wiggins in the British championship in 2010.

 

[Irondan]

Re:

If you don't agree with the comments, ignore them or show them the err of their ways with civil discussion.

 

[Walkman]

Re: Re:

So because Contador and Armstrong couldnt do it clean no one else could? Have you ever thought that maybe Froome thanks to being born in altitude and thanks to his cure from an energy saping disease can?

If being born at altitude is such a massive advantage, Froome should have shown it from the very beginning. He didn't show it at all before 2011. That's a fact.

He also didn't have bilharzia during his first years as a pro when he rode for Barloworld. Why wasn't he racking up stage wins on MTFs and winning GTs with his lack of bilharzia and his permanent altitude boost that he gained on his way out of the womb?

It doesn't add up.

As much as I agree with you that the post you responded to is a bit much, you are still asking all the wrong questions.. :/

 

[DrSahl]

Re: Re:

So because Contador and Armstrong couldnt do it clean no one else could? Have you ever thought that maybe Froome thanks to being born in altitude and thanks to his cure from an energy saping disease can?

If being born at altitude is such a massive advantage, Froome should have shown it from the very beginning. He didn't show it at all before 2011. That's a fact.

He also didn't have bilharzia during his first years as a pro when he rode for Barloworld. Why wasn't he racking up stage wins on MTFs and winning GTs with his lack of bilharzia and his permanent altitude boost that he gained on his way out of the womb?

It doesn't add up.

I've heard this story before... a mediocre rider wihtout any potential gets sick and then suddenly becomes superman... I am certain that most of the riders in the peleton use doping, some more than others... I've seen it in other sports "personaly" as well. If you wanna win you will do much to enchance yourself to the highest level.. ofc without killing yourself.. some people disregard the last one sadly...

Can I know for sure that Froome is doped up ? no.. none can if you wanna go that road... but if we look logical about all the facts, it would be dumb not to think so.

Do I like alot of the other riders more than Froome yes ? but that does not make them any less guilty than Froome.. thats just my personal taste.. his style is ugly if you ask me.. but again thats a pow...

 

[Walkman]

Re: Re:

How can it be a level playing field?

Who is 'measuring' the quantities of dope being taken by each rider?

Who is 'measuring' the way a rider responds to each PED to balance it out so they all get the same level of response?

The only 'level playing field' possible is for everyone to ride clean.

Quoted for truth.

 

[Poursuivant]

Re:

Froome's Ventoux stage win may have been one of the fastest ever for a HC mountain stage.

Didn't he climb that slower than a chunk of riders from 2009, including Kreuziger?