G.I. JOEEEEEE! [Tsunami of USADA cases against cyclists]

[davestoller]

Um...have you ever considered that the Feds and the USADA have the electronic evidence to put that stuff together themselves? Again, what some people here THINK they know about what is happening, and what happened are two different things. You don't want to think anything but what you have already decided about Joe. None of us are going to change that. I mean, you actually wrote the stupid idea that you would not give up people if you were faced with the option of Federal prison full force versus a lighter sentence for cooperating with investigation of those who also committed crimes with you. Only a moron would keep his mouth shut, and I am willing to bet you are not that stupid.

Agreed and exclamation point.

This is the Govt of the USA v. Joe Papp. Not USADA. Not WADA.
They have everything: his IRS returns going back forever, they have his computers, his phone records, his cell phone records, his emails, they have his bank statements, they have affidavits from his study hall teacher in 7th grade asking when he went to the bathroom. They have everything.

Any questions?

So, yes I think most of us would give it up and more if confronted with real jail time. THe question is, has he overstated his case with hopes of leniency from the Feds and USADA. And in the vimeo interview with Phil Andersen, no not THAT Phil Andersen, he suggests he would like to come back to the sport in a coaching or team director capacity.

As if.

If his leniency is any any way tied to the convictions or USADA bans of the folks he sold to, it is not looking good for him. The first name rider they went after just got off. Is this why he is tweeting about folks on his list should come out and come clean cause its gonna be soooo much better for them? Cause it looks like the opposite just happened. RIder X just got off.

 

[slowoldman]

Maybe all the rest are Cat 3s and Masters 40+.

Maybe not all but here's to hoping there are quite a few of these. They NEED to get tough on amateurs that dope. I just hope they don't let them sink away anonymously.

 

[BroDeal]

I quit reading when they became as selective about these issues as you've pointed out. On the other hand; if they have a printed Velonews ready for the newstands it would be practical to not render it worthless by posting more current news on their e-site. Only excuse I could think of and a weak one at that.

Velonews is deleting comments that name PZ as the dope buyer. Deleted comments on their articles show up with Javascript turned off, but they are not shown with it on.

 

[timbat]

One key issue that seems to be neglected here is that Joe provided a list of 160 + riders who bought from him.

we can't demonize JP for being the doping devil incarnate as surely he isn't the sole supllier of these products ?

In a world of online commerce and an open market, if these doping athletes didn't buy from JP wouldn't they have just found another source ?

The issue for me is the intent of the accused riders to dope, where they bought their products to me is a lesser concern. If JP is entitled to a lighter sentence in return for ratting then good luck to him, as we can be sure that when it suits those enforcing omerta they would squeel too when it is apparent the walls are coming down around them ....

 

[Oldman]

Velonews is deleting comments that name PZ as the dope buyer. Deleted comments on their articles show up with Javascript turned off, but they are not shown with it on.

Are they just being unconfidant about their information source? Seems a stretch they'd even talk about it until every other news outlet confirms this type of story.

 

[BroDeal]

Are they just being unconfidant about their information source? Seems a stretch they'd even talk about it until every other news outlet confirms this type of story.

Who knows? This is the comment they deleted:

burt hoovis
Cuh - It's friggin Phil Z...the same guy that made the bullsh!t story about his dope being in that special tea he drank a few years ago.

The information is already out there VN - quit trying to protect these cheats...!

VN has a history of caving in when riders complain. They have altered Armstrong stories repeatedly in the past, often within hours of the original posting. I bet all it takes is a phone call or an e-mail. VN is somewhere between a low grade information source and propaganda for any rider with a lawyer.

 

[Epicycle]

One key issue that seems to be neglected here is that Joe provided a list of 160 + riders who bought from him.

we can't demonize JP for being the doping devil incarnate as surely he isn't the sole supllier of these products ?

In a world of online commerce and an open market, if these doping athletes didn't buy from JP wouldn't they have just found another source ?

The issue for me is the intent of the accused riders to dope, where they bought their products to me is a lesser concern. If JP is entitled to a lighter sentence in return for ratting then good luck to him, as we can be sure that when it suits those enforcing omerta they would squeel too when it is apparent the walls are coming down around them ....

It's not that easy to get EPO. HGH...maybe, but EPO is a little tougher. Not like buying pot. I know that there were riders who were elated to have Joe as such a reliable source. Plus Joe was going out of his way to market his service and drum up new customers. He was the first to push EPO specifically to athletes using the internet. He provided rare convenience and dependability to people who wanted to try the dangerous drug.

 

[BroDeal]

The Zajicek situation reveals comedy gold. Read this Velonews article about Zajicek's first run in with the USADA.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010...ed-with-doping-violation_141266#disqus_thread

While Velonews' smarmy apologism is sickening, there are hilarious nuggets like this one:

“I was blown away when I found out,” Zajicek said. “I initially heardabout the positive from my team director. At the time I was driving to Boulder, Colorado, after speaking to interns at Carmichael Training Systems earlier that afternoon. What was ironic is that during that talk I had spoken extensively on the ability to compete at a high level in cyclingwhile being drug-free.”

Yup. In between getting caught for doping in China and getting embroiled with the fallout from Operation Papp, he was giving speeches at Chris "Extract of Cortisone" Carmichael's Training System for Dopers.

It's all a horrible misunderstanding, though. It could happen to anyone. You drink some bad Chinese tea and a few years later you are involuntarily buying EPO off the Internet. It happens every day.

 

[this_is_edie]

Who knows? This is the comment they deleted:



VN has a history of caving in when riders complain. They have altered Armstrong stories repeatedly in the past, often within hours of the original posting. I bet all it takes is a phone call or an e-mail. VN is somewhere between a low grade information source and propaganda for any rider with a lawyer.

It's another prime example of cycling media wanting to be friends with the riders. Zajicek lives in Boulder and is friends with VN staff.

And let's not forget that Zajicek used to ride for Navigators.

 

[Race Radio]

Joe gets a few more months before he is sentenced

http://espn.go.com/olympics/blog/_/name/olympics/id/5599900/joe-papp-sentencing-pushed-jan-21

 

[JRTinMA]

Joe gets a few more months before he is sentenced

http://espn.go.com/olympics/blog/_/name/olympics/id/5599900/joe-papp-sentencing-pushed-jan-21

I never knew about the guns and him getting his nose bloodied by a woman.

 

[Rupert]

Altruistic motives...

"At Landis' hearing in May 2007, Papp, who was about to be suspended from competition for two years due to his own transgression, testified that he was appearing because "I had a responsibility that extended beyond me ... to my family, to be an ethical parent, to be -- to be a good person, and I also had a responsibility to the sport that I loved."
However, according to court records, Papp continued his clandestine sales of EPO and HGH during and beyond the period he was cooperating with USADA in the Landis case."

So much for noble motives.... He was talking out both sides of his face then and probably is now. I have no use for doping but cannot see Joe as a "Good Guy doing a Good Deed," same for Floyd Landis.

 

[flicker]

"At Landis' hearing in May 2007, Papp, who was about to be suspended from competition for two years due to his own transgression, testified that he was appearing because "I had a responsibility that extended beyond me ... to my family, to be an ethical parent, to be -- to be a good person, and I also had a responsibility to the sport that I loved."
However, according to court records, Papp continued his clandestine sales of EPO and HGH during and beyond the period he was cooperating with USADA in the Landis case."

So much for noble motives.... He was talking out both sides of his face then and probably is now. I have no use for doping but cannot see Joe as a "Good Guy doing a Good Deed," same for Floyd Landis.

Oh darn it another 1 of those Lance Lovers.

 

[Hugh Januss]

"At Landis' hearing in May 2007, Papp, who was about to be suspended from competition for two years due to his own transgression, testified that he was appearing because "I had a responsibility that extended beyond me ... to my family, to be an ethical parent, to be -- to be a good person, and I also had a responsibility to the sport that I loved."
However, according to court records, Papp continued his clandestine sales of EPO and HGH during and beyond the period he was cooperating with USADA in the Landis case."

So much for noble motives.... He was talking out both sides of his face then and probably is now. I have no use for doping but cannot see Joe as a "Good Guy doing a Good Deed," same for Floyd Landis.

OK so he's a "Bad Guy doing a Good Deed" WGAF! Who was Landis selling drugs to, that you would lump him in with Papp? Seems like if anybody should be lumped in for helping others aquire PEDs it would be Armstrong not Landis.

 

[BroDeal]

I never knew about the guns and him getting his nose bloodied by a woman.

What is implied about guns in the article is that Joe was getting rid of them because he was pleading guilty to a felony. Federal law forbids gun ownership by anyone convicted of a crime punishable by imprisonment or a year of more.

 

[flicker]

OK so he's a "Bad Guy doing a Good Deed" WGAF! Who was Landis selling drugs to, that you would lump him in with Papp? Seems like if anybody should be lumped in for helping others aquire PEDs it would be Armstrong not Landis.

Landis isn't a bad guy, just misguided. See West Side story.

 

[JRTinMA]

What is implied about guns in the article is that Joe was getting rid of them because he was pleading guilty to a felony. Federal law forbids gun ownership by anyone convicted of a crime punishable by imprisonment or a year of more.

"My friend Imp stashed a tek and a nine at my crib, turned himself in he has to do a bid" Notorious BIG

Yes, I am aware of this law thanks to my obsession with 90's hip hop.

 

[flicker]

"My friend Imp stashed a tek and a nine at my crib, turned himself in he has to do a bid" Notorious BIG

Yes, I am aware of this law thanks to my obsession with 90's hip hop.

I would like to see Lance do some commercials with P. Diddy.

 

[joe_papp]

Loss of Perspective?

Here, at the end of a difficult week, and what hopefully is the beginning of a more positive one, I wanted to share with you this pair of numbers: 4 and 1.

They represent the number of anonymous death threats I received (4) and the anonymous suggestions I commit suicide (1).

I don't know who's responsible - I have no idea and frankly I don't care. What's disturbing to me is that there are people in the world of cycling who think this way...who see nothing wrong with sending death threats or encouraging another person to take their own life - worse still is that they do it on the day that Terry Newton, recently sanctioned for doping, DID take his own life.

You're all entitled to your own thoughts, opinions, beliefs, etc. I don't begrudge you that. But this harassment is going too far. There's little upside in engaging with the public if certain of its members will hide behind anonymity to deliver very twisted, disturbing evidence of perspective lost.

 

[Kerbdog]

Here, at the end of a difficult week, and what hopefully is the beginning of a more positive one, I wanted to share with you this pair of numbers: 4 and 1.

They represent the number of anonymous death threats I received (4) and the anonymous suggestions I commit suicide (1).

I don't know who's responsible - I have no idea and frankly I don't care. What's disturbing to me is that there are people in the world of cycling who think this way...who see nothing wrong with sending death threats or encouraging another person to take their own life - worse still is that they do it on the day that Terry Newton, recently sanctioned for doping, DID take his own life.

You're all entitled to your own thoughts, opinions, beliefs, etc. I don't begrudge you that. But this harassment is going too far. There's little upside in engaging with the public if certain of its members will hide behind anonymity to deliver very twisted, disturbing evidence of perspective lost.

And heres a number for you Joe, 0. That's the digit on the Joe Papp Careometer right now. Yeah poor poor poor you..................
Please stop coming on here & trying to get pity.

 

[smaryka]

Here, at the end of a difficult week, and what hopefully is the beginning of a more positive one, I wanted to share with you this pair of numbers: 4 and 1.

They represent the number of anonymous death threats I received (4) and the anonymous suggestions I commit suicide (1).

Death threats and suicide suggestions are unacceptable, and the people who sent them are clearly unstable and angry people who need help.

However, you've chosen the life of a celebrity so that's all part and parcel of it. The bad stuff comes with the good. If you don't like it, then stop being a celebrity.

 

[Barrus]

Here, at the end of a difficult week, and what hopefully is the beginning of a more positive one, I wanted to share with you this pair of numbers: 4 and 1.

They represent the number of anonymous death threats I received (4) and the anonymous suggestions I commit suicide (1).

I don't know who's responsible - I have no idea and frankly I don't care. What's disturbing to me is that there are people in the world of cycling who think this way...who see nothing wrong with sending death threats or encouraging another person to take their own life - worse still is that they do it on the day that Terry Newton, recently sanctioned for doping, DID take his own life.

You're all entitled to your own thoughts, opinions, beliefs, etc. I don't begrudge you that. But this harassment is going too far. There's little upside in engaging with the public if certain of its members will hide behind anonymity to deliver very twisted, disturbing evidence of perspective lost.

Was it on this forum? If so, give me their names and they are banned, we do not tolerate such notions here

 

[Dr. Maserati]

And heres a number for you Joe, 0. That's the digit on the Joe Papp Careometer right now. Yeah poor poor poor you..................
Please stop coming on here & trying to get pity.

If you read Joe's post - he asked for those issuing threats to get some "perspective".

Since its a point that you appear to have missed then I recommend reading this article onTerry Newton. who was found hanged earlier today.
Some quotes:

"I'll be honest, my biggest concern about taking the hGH wasn't the effects - good or bad - or even whether the RFL managed to find out.
"I was s****ing it in case my wife Stacey found out! If Stacey had known, she'd have strung me up."

"It took me getting caught to make me see sense. But at the time my head was up my a***. I was weak and I cheated but I never saw hGH as a drug because it was something that was helping me.

The above comments could be viewed as self serving or someone looking for pity.

As Joe said - it's actually about perspective.

 

[bobbins]

You're either part of the solution or part of the problem. Joe has been both and is now trying to be a positive force in cleaning up our sport. I personally know riders with a chequered past who are actively keeping the sport clean now.

In the old days it was a bit of amphet or cortisone that a pro rider would take once or twice a season. Nowadays it is an arms race with blood doping and now gene doping becoming a huge factor in pro racing.

Something has to be done to stop it. The UCI seem blind to it and want to keep the big names protected.

Fair play to people like Joe and Floyd who are taking a huge personal risk in letting the world know what goes on.

I was one who believed Armstrong but now know that his legacy was build on a lie. We are all responsible on getting the sport cleaned up and attacking people like Joe and Floyd will just maintain the omerta that still exists.

 

[Stephen_M]

I've just read through this post and I'm quite surprised by its content. I used to always be highly impressed by the level of detail and knowledge that was routinely demonstrated in the Clinic. OK, there was the occasional poor post, a bit of speculation or missinformation, but the balance was always on the side of great information.

I don't want to highlight any particular post, but I think quite a number have really highlighted a real lack of understanding about young athletes and the decisions they face. They seem to hold the premise that Joe P had some of Bond Villain-esque plan for world domination and elected to 'cheat' his fellow competitors?!?!

OK, I'm not going to post any of the interviews where Joe himself describes his introduction to the world of PEDs (as clearly a number of you would dismiss it as being some sort of munchaussen's self-aggrandisement...), but in keeping with US balance on this Forum, I would encourage people to take 5mins and read anything about guys like Greg Strock, or Matt DeCanio.

There's lots of stuff on Wikipedia, or even just google them. Maybe getting a tad dated, with Greg's cycling exploits being almost 20 years old now, but still a pretty good insight into what goes on within pro teams and how young riders are expected to progress from amateurs into dedicated professionals.

Perhaps it's not quite so black and white after all...