G.I. JOEEEEEE! [Tsunami of USADA cases against cyclists]

[kielbasa]

Bottom line is, I feel the way I do about master's racing not from any cynical point of view or jealousy.

I feel the way I do from what I know. You can think whatever YOU want, but don't presume to tell others how to think just because you want to paint a picture that isn't so.

If 40 is the new 30, it's because of 'roids. Plain and simple. I have no vested interest in you wanting to fool yourself about it. It's your choice.

You're just selling yourself short and yes, you are clearly cynical as is your choice. I'm 40+ and I feel and perform(ed) as a 30 year old. The extent of my "doping" was an occasional cup of coffee in the morning. Ironically, it is most likely the cynics having so little faith in themselves who are searching for the shortcuts.

"You can think whatever YOU want, but don't presume to tell others how to think just because you want to paint a picture that isn't so"

Right back at ya.

 

[Oldman]

You're just selling yourself short and yes, you are clearly cynical as is your choice. I'm 40+ and I feel and perform(ed) as a 30 year old. The extent of my "doping" was an occasional cup of coffee in the morning. Ironically, it is most likely the cynics having so little faith in themselves who are searching for the shortcuts.

"You can think whatever YOU want, but don't presume to tell others how to think just because you want to paint a picture that isn't so"

Right back at ya.

I second that position. I've had no big drop off in 40k TT times in 20 years unless I didn't train. I keep training because I run into old high school classmates that have decided that 40 years old means no more physical effort. They make 40+ look like the new 60. Note to young riders: there is never a reason to quit riding.

 

[Martin318is]

There has been a large off topic movement in this thread. I have removed the offending posts and issued some warnings where appropriate.

Please try to stay on the topic as indicated in the OP.

regards,
Martin

 

[krebs303]

Here's # 1

Chodroff admits to EPO purchase and use

Friday, September 17, 2010

USADA issue two-year ban for Papp client

Jonathan Chodroff has admitted to buying and using erythropoietin (EPO) in early 2007 and has been given a two-year sanction by USADA.

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

Here's # 1

Chodroff admits to EPO purchase and use

Friday, September 17, 2010

USADA issue two-year ban for Papp client

Jonathan Chodroff has admitted to buying and using erythropoietin (EPO) in early 2007 and has been given a two-year sanction by USADA.

An online store? Brilliant. So, will it just be a matter of sifting through the transaction records???

 

[steevo]

delete delete

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Here's # 1

Chodroff admits to EPO purchase and use

Friday, September 17, 2010

USADA issue two-year ban for Papp client

Jonathan Chodroff has admitted to buying and using erythropoietin (EPO) in early 2007 and has been given a two-year sanction by USADA.

Chodroff isn't the first - as Duane Dickey's case ealier this month had links to Papps site..... and of course we already had Kayle Leogrande.

I spot that Joes blog and twitter have gone rather quiet - so I think its fair to say that the names are about to start getting released.

 

[slowoldman]

Frankly, I can't wait to see the list of non-professional cheaters, particularly masters cyclists.

PED use among has-been's and never-has-been's is pathetic on a monumental level.

I just said this very thing to my wife. I hope (I mean REALLY hope you're right about the masters riders) that it includes loads of "local legends"..........

 

[slowoldman]

Uh huh. Problem is, normal hormone levels should not be in one's 40s what they were in one's 20s. It's called the natural aging process.

Yuppies don't want to hear this, and there are unscrupulous doctors out there feeding this patently warped sense of what should be healthy parameters for men approaching middle age.

This is why anti-aging clinics, run for the most part by quacks and medical frauds have become a multi-million dollar (if not more) industry in the US.

It is the ultimate sense of entitlement for people to believe they should remain young forever. But I challenge you on your first statement that one should expect less doping in the amateur ranks. There is probably more, seeing as the amateur ranks are the wild west when it comes to the "anything goes" atmosphere promised by almost no comprehensive dope testing.

If one trains harder and is getting slower due to declining hormone levels, that's called getting older. You make it sound as if declining hormone levels are the root cause, when it's a naturally occurring physiological response that all life forms go through.

Once you begin isolating it and calling it something else, this is where people cross the line and convince themselves they're not cheating when they are.

I know many guys who dope in the local amateur ranks who see absolutely nothing wrong with it. It's because of the rationalizations you list. In fact, the ones who do well feel entitled to their success. They see the hard work they're able to put in as a justification to prance about feeling good about themselves.

What most people who either don't know or don't want to believe is the ease of access to these drugs once one has an established network. The yuppies who go to anti-aging clinics think they have an advantage because they can afford to pay doctors and the exorbitant US prices for medically prescribed hormones, but even the most humble working-class slob can get in on the action.

All you need is one cat traveling back and forth to any place in either Central/South America or certain countries in the Caribbean. The stuff is even less expensive if one travels and gets it without involving a middle man.

Case in point-the Dominican Republic. I know guys who sell Sildenafil, which is the generic version of Viagra for $10 a pill here in the states. They pay the equivalent of $1 US dollar per pill at any pharmacy in Santo Domingo. And there is no clandestine pipeline one has to infiltrate.

All you need is to speak enough Spanish to walk into a pharmacy and order it over the counter. That's it. That also goes for stuff like testosterone and HgH. EPO is a bit more difficult and may involve one getting in good with a pharmaceutical rep in said country, but all that takes is an introduction to the right person and a night out with dinner, drinks and a prostitute included on your tab. That's how you grease that particular wheel.

Joe Papp raced in South America, he should be able to cooberate this information if anyone thinks I'm lying.

Fantastic response!! In short, we get older and slower, DEAL with it. That is why it is called Masters racing. Justification of "anti-aging" drugs is like seeing an older lady with augmentation......it's pathetic.

 

[slowoldman]

Many on this thread have all but concluded that "the list" contains a bunch of names of masters riders. I would venture that it probably consist mostly of NRC pros and amateurs with just a couple of prominent masters.

I think the aforementioned conclusion is partly due to the fact that many here are indeed masters racers and would love to see that one dominating local guy that everyone hates show up on that list. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but chances of that happening are very remote. He's still gonna show up and kick your behind next year. He's probably in the pain cave right now whilst everyone else is trolling the clinic looking for an excuse.

I would bet one or two of those master's who spend the off season in the "pain cave" aren't sleeping too well right now......just sayin'

 

[Oldman]

I would bet one or two of those master's who spend the off season in the "pain cave" aren't sleeping too well right now......just sayin'

I read your post on Master's Natz...tough day and a good reason to only attend if the host town has other redeeming qualities. Spending 5 days in Louisville is more time than needed to attend two races (my personal complaint). Was there obvious testing? My hope is the fear will be strong enough to keep next year's Bend, Oregon race cleaner. You'll like the courses there and the place is beautiful. More restaurants and sights to see than most; your family might love it.

 

[slowoldman]

I read your post on Master's Natz...tough day and a good reason to only attend if the host town has other redeeming qualities. Spending 5 days in Louisville is more time than needed to attend two races (my personal complaint). Was there obvious testing? My hope is the fear will be strong enough to keep next year's Bend, Oregon race cleaner. You'll like the courses there and the place is beautiful. More restaurants and sights to see than most; your family might love it.

I will be in Bend next year without a doubt, I am really looking forward to it. Hopefully it will be a less painful time (at least with regards to asphalt sampling). Unfortunately I saw or was aware of NO testing at all, I could be wrong though. Hope to see you there.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I spotted this down at the bottom of the CN article on Chodroff.:

Cyclingnews attempted to contact Papp but he was unavailable for comment.

Joe is hardly in a position to make a public comment on any of his customers - especially when he has been the subject of abuse already, for being a doper.
I would assume the abuse would be worse from people that have been caught through his admissions.

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

Jon ordered the drugs with his Yale.edu email address to his parents house.

An instant classic.

 

[offbyone]

As they used to say on the Saturday morning merchandising vehicle G.I. Joe - "GOOOOO JOE!"



http://velonews.competitor.com/2010...gainst-up-to-two-dozen-domestic-racers_140460

Real change, brought to you by a real doper. Eat it, Omerta lovers.

Change is change, but I don't really see this as progress. I will call it progress when the system catches the dopers rather than counting on snitches to do it. Maybe this will help the system in the long run, who knows.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Change is change, but I don't really see this as progress. I will call it progress when the system catches the dopers rather than counting on snitches to do it. Maybe this will help the system in the long run, who knows.

The only way you can expose that 'the system' is not working is through having 'snitches' or outside investigation.

The opposite to snitching is Omerta.
Ultimatley, a caught doper is a caught doper.

 

[Oldman]

The only way you can expose that 'the system' is not working is through having 'snitches' or outside investigation.

The opposite to snitching is Omerta.
Ultimatley, a caught doper is a caught doper.

And a disfunctional or corrupt "system" will be shown for what it is. Slowoldman's comment about no noticable testing at Master's Natz is, under the circumstances, a glaring problem for USAC. They could have at least said they were going to test. Considering they have the ongoing scrutiny of USADA and issues with Master's Natz in the past they should have a plan.

 

[smaryka]

So lemme get this straight... first Joe Papp dopes, then he sells dope to others, then he gets caught, then he turns in his list of clients, then he gloats about their fate publicly? Final chapter will be, he walks away scot-free and with a massive book and movie deal.

Right. Very noble. A Real American Hero, that Joe.

 

[Anonymous]

So lemme get this straight... first Joe Papp dopes, then he sells dope to others, then he gets caught, then he turns in his list of clients, then he gloats about their fate publicly? Final chapter will be, he walks away scot-free and with a massive book and movie deal.

Right. Very noble. A Real American Hero, that Joe.

So lemme get this straight...you can't read right? Where was he gloating? Oh wait, he didn't. He may ignore ignorance like this, but I don't have to.

 

[smaryka]

So lemme get this straight...you can't read right? Where was he gloating? Oh wait, he didn't. He may ignore ignorance like this, but I don't have to.

He comes off pretty much "it's all about me". I see he's deleted his tweets now but they live on in retweets found via google:

ryantkelly‎: Isn't this "announcement" like eight hours old? RT @joepabike The official announcement ...
http://usantidoping.org/files/active/resources/press_releases ...‎

buffwinston‎: RT @joepabike: So - grist from the rumor mill is that an announcement is coming from someone, somewhere, in either 1 minute or 1 hour an ...

There's a way to bring down dopers and making one own's name off their downfall isn't it. Repeatedly telling the world that he's so important because he's got his "list" and he's busy naming all the names on it smacks of narcissism. You might think he's a hero but I find his style extremely distasteful.

 

[joe_papp]

Make up your minds - you either want to know what's going on, or you'll leave me alone so that I can enjoy riding on the weekends.

 

[Anonymous]

He comes off pretty much "it's all about me". I see he's deleted his tweets now but they live on in retweets found via google:



There's a way to bring down dopers and making one own's name off their downfall isn't it. Repeatedly telling the world that he's so important because he's got his "list" and he's busy naming all the names on it smacks of narcissism. You might think he's a hero but I find his style extremely distasteful.

I don't think he is half as voracious as Armstrong was in enacting the his Iron Fist of Omerta. If someone has some zeal about dopers getting caught, I think it is well warranted considering the fact that there has been forced silence. (because of pressure AND the fact that so many of them doped and couldn't point fingers.) The only people who can point fingers are those who are caught, because almost nobody has the balls to come out and admit doping when you haven't been caught. Most of them are smart enough to keep their mouths shut...then there are those who make a big show about letting everyone know they are clean when only a blind fool would believe them.

 

[Race Radio]

So lemme get this straight... first Joe Papp dopes, then he sells dope to others, then he gets caught, then he turns in his list of clients, then he gloats about their fate publicly? Final chapter will be, he walks away scot-free and with a massive book and movie deal.

Right. Very noble. A Real American Hero, that Joe.

I have yet to see gloating. Joe is going to jail. Do you have something about this book/movie deal or was this your invention?

 

[blutto]

Make up your minds - you either want to know what's going on, or you'll leave me alone so that I can enjoy riding on the weekends.

...somehow the quiet weekend on a bike sounds like the perfect way to get away from what I'm sure has been a stressful week...

...happy trails...

Cheers

blutto

 

[smaryka]

Wow, a lot of Joe defenders here. lol. Only took two replies from TFF before he Godwined it by mentioning Armstrong, who has nothing to do with what I said.

I think it's good that dopers are being caught. I think it's good that Joe was caught and that the sh!t is now rolling downhill (that's where sh!t rolls, right?) I don't think it's good that he's merrily announcing every newly caught doper, every ban, every guy who was just like he was way back when, as if he's so much better than them now. I'm all for catching dopers, but I don't understand why someone who doped and dealt dope is suddenly given a golden crown to wear around here while people fall at his feet lapping up every crumb.

Landis has shown that you can be a lot more humble when dealing with this stuff, outwardly at least. I've never quite shaken the feeling that Joe Papp is still involved in this because he believes he has something to gain from it. Doesn't sit right with me. That's all.