Geert Leinders

[Zam_Olyas]

From L'arri owner of http://dopeology.org/

Education
Leiden, Gent

Teams:

Sigma, Histor, Panasonic, Lotto (which version?), Rabobank, Sky

Two books authored by him -

 

[sniper]

Darryl, there already is such a website, in Dutch:

Dopingzaak.nl

I advice everyone to go there, they simply state the facts and list who are employed where and who they trained. It's shocking. And even then they missed out people like Menuet (medic of Coppel) who was implicated in the Cofidis scandal,



That's obvious and I'm not kidding around:

He's obviously brilliant at keeping his riders testing negative.

Keep in mind that under his watch there were no positives except retroactively. He worked with alledged dopers as, Jans Koerts Thomas Dekker and Michael Rasmussen. He managed Menchov to remain uncaught (and yes, I 100% assume he is guilty due to his passport and involvement in Human Plasma). We can add Boogerd, Weening and Posthuma if the Austrian police is a trustworthy source

Jans Koerts, the one of the saline tablets actually admitted that indeed he was using Epo (hahaha for his natural high Hema). A success for Leinders and one of which we have first hand testimony of his involvement in passing the tests.

And before anyone even remotely downplays his skills: When he managed the medical team at Rabo they won three GT's and it's really not unfair to say he had a hand in the fourth, the Giro. He was fired before that, but he had managed Mencov until he hit that level.

A third thing he should be noted for is that while he managed the medical team at Rabo The Chicken could transform as a skinny guy into a powerful decent timetrialist.... and still not gaining a kilo. It's the other way around of Wiggo, but the paralel imagery: insanely low fat, high power certainly is there.

I agree with Brailsford, Geert certainly had a brilliant career at Rabo. But it isn't one that befits a clean cycling team and it certainly warrants big red flags.

excellent post, am in full agreement.

a small "however" is that Rabo (particularly Boogerd, but also Menchov) always came short of the (rather high) expectations at the TdF, except in 2007 of course, but that was a decade after Leinders had started at Rabo, a decade filled with relatively disappointing TdFs for Rabo, i.e. never really coming close to winning it.
(But this of course leaves his "zero positives" record unaffected, as well as the record of winning 3/4 other GTs.)

It's not farfetched to assume that in 2006/2007 Leinders, in addition to his already formidable masking skills, had come a cross a new formula, is it?

 

[Robert21]

A few past news stories that implicate Leinders who, after all, was the team doctor for Rabobank all the way through from 1996 to 2009.

UPDATED: Sponsor responds; Medical staff said to have overseen riders' activities; Boogerd claimed as HumanPlasma client

Team Rabobank tolerated the use of doping up until at least 2007, according to a Dutch newspaper. The riders could select their own products, but the team medical staff made sure that they did not hurt their health, the Volkskrant newspaper claimed. At least three former riders, including Michael Boogerd, were also said to have been involved in the HumanPlasma blood doping ring, as well.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/rabobank-tolerated-doping-on-cycling-team-de-rooy-claims

The Rabobank team has reacted to allegations that systematic doping occurred on the team up until 2007 by saying that they now have a zero tolerance stance towards doping.

On Saturday Volkskrant ran an interview with Theo de Rooy, who was the team manager from 2003 to 2007. De Rooy detailed how riders were allowed to use doping products, while the team’s medical staff oversaw that the athletes’ health was kept in check and that no positive doping controls were returned by anti-doping authorities.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/rabobank-reacts-to-de-rooys-doping-claims

Founded in 1996, the use of doping was tolerated within the Rabobank team until at least 2007. The choice of stimulants was primarily the responsibility of the riders. The team doctor made ​​sure that their health is not at risk.

Doping was tolerated in the team and lead by the medical staff, stakeholders told the Volkskrant.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2698...05/Doping-werd-getolereerd-in-Raboploeg.dhtml

There is no doubt that between 1996 and 2007 the team moved to the structured use [of doping products]. It was the most natural thing in the world. The riders were allowed to decide how far they wanted to go, as long as it happened under the control of the team doctor. That is what you call structure.

http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/3184...t-fietsplan-van-de-Rabobank-is-een-feit.dhtml

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Poem

Geert Leinders: Pin the tail on the dope doc


so sky

or team sky as they like to be called

and clean team as they like to be known

once upon a fuggin time couldn’t win ****

n fuggin while

they still won’t fuggin touch a rider touched by doping past

sky relaxed

things

in search of experienced staff

n as it turns the fugg out

in geert

ex rabo vienna humaplasma doc

experience they fuggin found

addendum:

fer those wonderin what the **** is captainn referin to

geert is a sport med doc

worked fer rabobank

initially as a doc coach and some sort uv managerially capacity

during his tenure

rabo allowed doping under med supervision

so geert could ensure

safety


More here

 

[Franklin]

excellent post, am in full agreement.

a small "however" is that Rabo (particularly Boogerd, but also Menchov) always came short of the (rather high) expectations at the TdF, except in 2007 of course, but that was a decade after Leinders had started at Rabo, a decade filled with relatively disappointing TdFs for Rabo, i.e. never really coming close to winning it.
(But this of course leaves his "zero positives" record unaffected, as well as the record of winning 3/4 other GTs.)

It's not farfetched to assume that in 2006/2007 Leinders, in addition to his already formidable masking skills, had come a cross a new formula, is it?

Actually no, the scheme at Rabo started late and had effects within two years.

Leinders got carte blanche in 2002. And no, not just the medical staff, they gave Leinders carte blanche and he did explicitely get immunity for his actions (and did not have to report to anyone).

I'm not making this up, crazy as it sounds. http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2844...012/05/05/Toch-niet-roomser-dan-de-paus.dhtml

Still 2002:

The American Levi Leipheimer, third in the Vuelta in 2001, is contracted because he is willing to listen to Leinders.

Read that as you will....

But Bottle clearly isn't strong enough/doesn't respond/the mixture isn't perfect, so they contract Michael Rasmussen and later on Dennis Mencov

JACKPOT!


The whitewash "he was only keeping them alive and informing them while turning a blind eye" does not hold for closer scrutiny. Not only does he get involved in coverups, the whole "carte blanche, immunity, no need to report" suggests a lot more. And the results certainly came.

It explains why Rabo let him go and everyone is zipping their lips. It also explains why Breukink could stay. The sponsor was culpable, so they didn't dare to kill of the team and the management. It took 5 years before de Rooij started to lift part of the curtain. And even then it's clearly with great reluctance and very circumspect. The most damning part is that there isn't a shadow of denial by anyone involved. Even the riders implicated are silent, except Boogerd who maintains he rode on water and bread.

I'm also going to point to the connection Rasmussen-Matschinger-Kohl. Kohl... was coming from the Rabo-youth squad. I certainly doubt that Leinders was involved in the youth squad, but they certainly knew Kohl.

 

[The Cobra]

excellent post, am in full agreement.

a small "however" is that Rabo (particularly Boogerd, but also Menchov) always came short of the (rather high) expectations at the TdF, except in 2007 of course, but that was a decade after Leinders had started at Rabo, a decade filled with relatively disappointing TdFs for Rabo, i.e. never really coming close to winning it.
(But this of course leaves his "zero positives" record unaffected, as well as the record of winning 3/4 other GTs.)

It's not farfetched to assume that in 2006/2007 Leinders, in addition to his already formidable masking skills, had come a cross a new formula, is it?

I heard he replaced doping products with beetroot juice.

 

[Franklin]

I heard he replaced doping products with beetroot juice.

As there truly is no way to spin this you decide to go for trolling?

At least this shows that you are absolutely at a loss how to square this with clean Sky. It's okay... nobody so far has managed to do that Jedi mind trick yet.

"This is not the dope-doctor you are looking for."

 

[neineinei]

Actually no, the scheme at Rabo started late and had effects within two years.

Leinders got carte blanche in 2002. And no, not just the medical staff, they gave Leinders carte blanche and he did explicitely get immunity for his actions (and did not have to report to anyone).

I'm not making this up, crazy as it sounds. http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2844...012/05/05/Toch-niet-roomser-dan-de-paus.dhtml

Still 2002:



Read that as you will....

But Bottle clearly isn't strong enough/doesn't respond/the mixture isn't perfect, so they contract Michael Rasmussen and later on Dennis Mencov

JACKPOT!


The whitewash "he was only keeping them alive and informing them while turning a blind eye" does not hold for closer scrutiny. Not only does he get involved in coverups, the whole "carte blanche, immunity, no need to report" suggests a lot more. And the results certainly came.

It also explains why Rabo let him go and everyone is zipping their lips. It also explains why Breukink could stay. The sponsor was culpable, so they didn't dare to kill of the team and the management. It took 5 years before de Rooij started to lift part of the curtain. And even then it's clearly with great reluctance and very circumspect. The most damning part is that there isn't a shadow of denial by none of those involved. Even the riders implicated are silent, except Boogerd who maintains he rode on water and bread.

I'm also going to point to the connection Rasmussen-Matschinger-Kohl. Kohl... was coming from the Rabo-youth squad. I certainly doubt that Leinders was involved in the youth squad, but they certainly knew Kohl.

The altruistic blood centrifuge coop.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/criminal-case-of-kohl-and-rasmussen-closed-without-charges

 

[The Cobra]

As there truly is no way to spin this you decide to go for trolling?

At least this shows that you are absolutely at a loss how to square this with clean Sky. It's okay... nobody so far has managed to do that Jedi mind trick yet.

"This is not the dope-doctor you are looking for."

Lol, leave it with me. I'll think of something.

 

[goggalor]

Anyone heard what luigi Cecchini is up to these days?

Going shopping with Thomas Dekker? Dekker was still close with Cecchini back when he was trying out for Garmin (check out the documentary "Niemand Kent Mij"), but said their relationship was of a father-son nature, and claimed Cecchini wasn't coaching him anymore.

 

[hrotha]

Great finds, Franklin!

For the record, when I suggested Leinders might be small fish I wasn't trying to whitewash anything - certainly not the extent of Sky's alleged doping program, since I mentioned someone else might be behind it. I simply didn't want to focus on Leinders just because his is the only name we had, but the evidence seems to suggest he's always been a more important character than I thought.

 

[JRanton]

Here is the original story:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-1308967/Team-Sky-withdraw-riders-Tour-Spain-death-assistant.html

& the more recent Brailsford reference and quotes:

The Times (London)

July 11, 2012 Wednesday


Brailsford explained that Sky had employed Leinders in extreme circumstances after the Vuelta in 2010. Sky had initially made it their policy to employ only medical staff who were British and who had no history in professional cycling, as part of an effort to make a concerted break from the sport's dirty past.

On that Vuelta, however, many riders suffered from vomiting and the team withdrew after the death of one of the soigneurs, Txema Gonzalez, from a virus. Brailsford said: "We had all these riders sick going: 'What is going on? This isn't good enough.' And you think: 'We're putting these guys at risk here.' We sat down afterwards and we said: 'We do not know enough about looking after people in extreme heat and extreme fatigue.' " It was soon afterwards that Brailsford decided that his principles were no longer workable. "We needed some experience," he said. "That's why we decided to go and get him. Has he been a good doctor? Brilliant. The guy really understands. It's not about doping, it's about genuine medical practice."

I'll ask again then, where does Brailsford mention the death of Gonzalez in relation to his decision to hire Leinders? He doesn't.

 

[Benotti69]

Going shopping with Thomas Dekker? Dekker was still close with Cecchini back when he was trying out for Garmin (check out the documentary "Niemand Kent Mij"), but said their relationship was of a father-son nature, and claimed Cecchini wasn't coaching him anymore.

Dekker's results of late suggest that though.

 

[Darryl Webster]

Great finds, Franklin!

For the record, when I suggested Leinders might be small fish I wasn't trying to whitewash anything - certainly not the extent of Sky's alleged doping program, since I mentioned someone else might be behind it. I simply didn't want to focus on Leinders just because his is the only name we had, but the evidence seems to suggest he's always been a more important character than I thought.

IF theres another, unkown doctor , involved perhaps Yates connections might be the area to look?. It sems from all the info presented so far Leinders alone may have the skills here. However heres another line of thought to consider, that BC have been running some kind of internal program for some time and that Leinders was brought in to help design its use better on the road.
I know most of you may think Gene Therapy methods are still the stuff of science fiction but I,m not convinced thats absalutly true . Here , on Jo Papp ,s Blogg from 2009 he discuss,s the possibility. :
"One of the biggest fears of anti-doping authorities is the introduction of gene doping. Dr. Theodore Friedmann, head of the World Anti-Doping Agency's gene doping panel has been quoted to say, “It will happen, but we don't know when.” Unfortunately, it may have happened already.

In 2008, scientists discovered orally active agents that genetically switch on an endurance gene signature that was shown to increase running endurance by 44% in sedentary mice. The first target of these drugs is PPARδ, a transcriptional regulator, and the second is AMPK, a serine-threonine kinase. Both PPARδ and AMPK contribute to metabolic reprogramming and are respectively targeted by the drugs GW1516 and AICAR."

http://joepapp.blogspot.co.uk/2009/10/future-of-doping.html

 

[Bonkstrong]

I'll ask again then, where does Brailsford mention the death of Gonzalez in relation to his decision to hire Leinders? He doesn't.

Don't ruin a good thread with your appropriate use of common sense!!

 

[Benotti69]

I'll ask again then, where does Brailsford mention the death of Gonzalez in relation to his decision to hire Leinders? He doesn't.

So are you accusing The Times newspaper of printing lies?

What other 'extreme circumstances' in the Vuelta 2010 could he have been talking about?

Death of a Soigneur and sick riders would appear pretty extreme to me.

 

[Darryl Webster]

I'll ask again then, where does Brailsford mention the death of Gonzalez in relation to his decision to hire Leinders? He doesn't.

"Leinders started working with Sky in extremis during the 2010 Vuelta a Espana when a large number of riders fell sick and their sogineur, Txema Ganzales, died suddenly of a bacterial infection."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...f-Dr-Geert-Leinders-after-doping-scandal.html

 

[JRanton]

Thats a very interesting point because it would appear that for 3 years it was kept out of the public domain . 3 whole years yet Brailsford descibes him as "brilliant".
What exactly is he brilliant at?

Hardly kept out of the public domain.

He's listed as Sky's doctor for several races this season on their website.

Paris-Nice this year for instance: http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,24793_7552127,00.html

Romandie too: http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,25179_7692582,00.html

And the Dauphine: http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,25669_7784970,00.html

So he's been with the Tour squad and Wiggins in those pre-Tour stage race wins but then didn't show up for the big one in July.

 

[The Cobra]

I'll ask again then, where does Brailsford mention the death of Gonzalez in relation to his decision to hire Leinders? He doesn't.

He clearly doesn't does he? When you think about it, you're not going to win any races if your riders are getting sick. So why not hire someone who has prior experience in treating/monitoring riders as they go through the very severe demands placed on their bodies during a grand tour.

You could pluck a random doctor from the UK to do it, but you would get more benfit from a having a specialist who understands cycling and the very extreme hardship the body goes through racing at the highest level for three weeks. Why settle for an inferior standard of care just to appease critics?

Of course finding a doctor who has passed experience in cycling and is whiter than white is impossible. Therefore, step forward Gert Leinders. The only mistake Sky made was being too naive in thinking that the cynics wouldnt jump on any chance they could to say they've found the smoking gun of Skys doping, when in reality theres nothing to be found.

Nice try guys, end of thread.

 

[JRanton]

"Leinders started working with Sky in extremis during the 2010 Vuelta a Espana when a large number of riders fell sick and their sogineur, Txema Ganzales, died suddenly of a bacterial infection."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...f-Dr-Geert-Leinders-after-doping-scandal.html

But Brailsford doesn't refer to the death of Gonzalez as the reason for hiring Leinders. He mentions the riders falling ill as the reason.

 

[Benotti69]

Hardly kept out of the public domain.

He's listed as Sky's doctor for several races this season on their website.

Paris-Nice this year for instance: http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,24793_7552127,00.html

Romandie too: http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,25179_7692582,00.html

And the Dauphine: http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,25669_7784970,00.html

So he's been with the Tour squad and Wiggins in those pre-Tour stage race wins but then didn't show up for the big one in July.

The biggest race on their calendar and the most important Doctor hired by Sky to look after the health of Sky's riders and their GT team is their most valuable, is not on the race!

Why? Is it because the world's media would be in attendance?

Doesn't add up, hire a doctor for GTs for the riders health after an extreme circumstance when a soigneur died and not just any doctor but a doctor with serious history of doping accusations is not in attendance.

attributed to Brailsford in cyclesportsmag.com

“When someone dies on your team and you feel you’re putting riders at risk… for all we knew the riders could have had the same thing.

“We sat down and realised that as a group of people we did not know enough about looking after people in extreme heat, with extreme fatigue. We were making calls like ‘no, on you go mate’.”

Two days before the start of the Tour, Brailsford talked to Cycle Sport about the decision to hiring Dr Leinders. He admitted that he should have addressed the issue publicly in May, when De Rooy made his claims. However, he said he would not judge until he had determined all the facts.

 

[AcademyCC]

"Leinders started working with Sky in extremis during the 2010 Vuelta a Espana when a large number of riders fell sick and their sogineur, Txema Ganzales, died suddenly of a bacterial infection."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...f-Dr-Geert-Leinders-after-doping-scandal.html

That's not a quote from Brailsford. Re-read and you will see it is a statement by the Journalist Brendan Gallagher.

 

[JRanton]

So are you accusing The Times newspaper of printing lies?

What other 'extreme circumstances' in the Vuelta 2010 could he have been talking about?

Death of a Soigneur and sick riders would appear pretty extreme to me.

Err, no I'm not.

Read what Brailsford actually said. That's the bit between the quotation marks by the way. He's referring specifically to the riders falling (pretty seriously) ill early in the race.

 

[taiwan]

"When Team Sky was set up, Brailsford said he would not hire anyone who had an association with doping. It was a strong message but given generations of doping abuse in the sport it also appeared to be an idealistic and unrealistic goal.

But Brailsford did decide the team should hire British medical staff who had not worked inside professional cycling before.

However, the harrowing experience at the 2010 Vuelta a Espana led to a rethink of that medical policy."

 

[Benotti69]

Err, no I'm not.

Read what Brailsford actually said. That's the bit between the quotation marks by the way. He's referring specifically to the riders falling (pretty seriously) ill early in the race.

attributed to Brailsford in cyclesportsmag.com

“When someone dies on your team and you feel you’re putting riders at risk… for all we knew the riders could have had the same thing.

“We sat down and realised that as a group of people we did not know enough about looking after people in extreme heat, with extreme fatigue. We were making calls like ‘no, on you go mate’.”

Two days before the start of the Tour, Brailsford talked to Cycle Sport about the decision to hiring Dr Leinders. He admitted that he should have addressed the issue publicly in May, when De Rooy made his claims. However, he said he would not judge until he had determined all the facts.

http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-a...ses-doctor-dilemma-we-are-100-per-cent-clean/