Geert Leinders

[Califootman]

Of course finding a doctor who has passed experience in cycling and is whiter than white is impossible. Therefore, step forward Gert Leinders.

Whiter than white
^
|
| many
|
| MANY
|
| MANY
|
| shades of gray
|
V
Some doc who is WIDELY ACKNOWLEDGED to have SUPERVISED TEAM-WIDE DOPING at Rabobank FOR YEARS.


So I guess Brailsford said, "There are no whiter than white doctors... let's try the other end of the scale!"

 

[Bala Verde]

Actually no, the scheme at Rabo started late and had effects within two years.

Leinders got carte blanche in 2002. And no, not just the medical staff, they gave Leinders carte blanche and he did explicitely get immunity for his actions (and did not have to report to anyone).

I'm not making this up, crazy as it sounds. http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2844...012/05/05/Toch-niet-roomser-dan-de-paus.dhtml

Still 2002:



Read that as you will....

But Bottle clearly isn't strong enough/doesn't respond/the mixture isn't perfect, so they contract Michael Rasmussen and later on Dennis Mencov

JACKPOT!


The whitewash "he was only keeping them alive and informing them while turning a blind eye" does not hold for closer scrutiny. Not only does he get involved in coverups, the whole "carte blanche, immunity, no need to report" suggests a lot more. And the results certainly came.

It explains why Rabo let him go and everyone is zipping their lips. It also explains why Breukink could stay. The sponsor was culpable, so they didn't dare to kill of the team and the management. It took 5 years before de Rooij started to lift part of the curtain. And even then it's clearly with great reluctance and very circumspect. The most damning part is that there isn't a shadow of denial by anyone involved. Even the riders implicated are silent, except Boogerd who maintains he rode on water and bread.

I'm also going to point to the connection Rasmussen-Matschinger-Kohl. Kohl... was coming from the Rabo-youth squad. I certainly doubt that Leinders was involved in the youth squad, but they certainly knew Kohl.

Interesting article:

[Article printed 5 May 2012] Onder geen beding is het nu nog toegestaan 'de randjes van de medische begeleiding op te zoeken', zoals De Rooij het medische beleid uit zijn Rabotijd beschrijft. Daartegenover staat wel dat prestaties worden verlangd. Uit tientallen gesprekken met insiders van binnen en buiten de ploeg blijkt dat het een volgens velen onverenigbare combinatie is.

[Since 2007/Rasmussen] Under no circumstance is it allowed to 'push the boundaries of medical guidance/preparation,' the way de Rooij described the medical policy during his time at RAB. On the other hand, good results are required [from the bank/sponsor]. From dozens of conversations with insiders from inside and outside the team, it appears to be an irreconcilable combination.

Leinders left in July 2009, because he was unhappy with new RAB policies and management

Leinders is de eerste bij Rabobank die direct opstapt naar aanleiding van onvrede over het nieuwe beleid bij de Nederlandse wielerformatie. Vorige week uitte ook de meest succesvolle ploegleider Adri van Houwelingen zijn onvrede over de houding van het management van de ploeg.

(Off topic, this also implicates van Houwelingen, who was DS during Menchov's Giro d'italia win in 2009.)

He only needs to work with like minded DSs/management, where everyone has an (unspoken) understanding of what needs to be done in order to be competitive. No questions asked and everyone just does what needs to be done.

So in July 2009 he leaves and by 2010 he's got a new job at SKY is the timeline?

Didn't SKY say he worked only part time? Why, if you need to find replacement of a doctor, who for unfortunate reasoned deceased, do you resort to replacing him part time? Or was the other person also there part time? Or is he so much better that he can do everything in half as much time as other doctors do?

I do believe having seen Leinders name listed on the SKY website?

EDIT> Yes

http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,25179_7692582,00.html

[printed 2012] Romandie
Team Sky line-up:

- Mark Cavendish
- Chris Froome
- Danny Pate
- Richie Porte
- Michael Rogers
- Kanstantsin Siutsou
- Geraint Thomas
- Bradley Wiggins

Lead DS: Sean Yates
DS: Servais Knaven
Doctor: Geert Leinders
Physio: Dan Guillemette
Mechanic: Rajen Murugayan
Mechanic: Filip Tisma
Mechanic: Richard Lambert
Carer: Aldis Cirulis
Carer: Klaus Liebold
Carer: Stefan Szrek
Driver: Claudio Lucchini
Chef: Soren Kristiansen
Head of Performance: Tim Kerrison

http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,25669_7784970,00.html

[printed 2012] Criterium Dauphine

Team Sky line-up:

1. Bradley Wiggins
2. Chris Froome
3. Edvald Boasson Hagen
4. Christian Knees
5. Danny Pate
6. Richie Porte
7. Michael Rogers
8. Kanstantsin Siutsou

DS: Sean Yates
2nd DS: Servais Knaven
Doctor: Geert Leinders
Physio: Dan Guillemette
Mechanic: Filip Tisma
Mechanic: Gary Blem
Mechanic: Alan Williams
Mechanic: Aldis Cirulis
Carer: David Rozman
Carer: Mario Pafundi
Carer: Stefan Szrek
Driver: Chris Slark
Chef: Soren Kristiansen
Press officer: Nick Howes

http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,,17545_7552127,00+en-USS_01DBC.html

[printed 2012] Paris Nice

Team Sky line-up:
21. Bradley Wiggins
22. Christian Knees
23. Danny Pate
24. Richie Porte
25. Kanstantsin Siutsou
26. Geraint Thomas
27. Rigoberto Urán
28. Xabier Zandio

DS: Sean Yates
2nd DS: Nicolas Portal
Sport Scientist: Tim Kerrison
Doctor: Geert Leinders
Physio: Bob Grainger
Mechanic: Rajen Murugayan
Mechanic: Filip Tisma
Mechanic: Igor Turk
Carer: Cristian Alonso
Carer: Klaus Liebold
Carer: Maarten Mimpen
Bus driver: Chris Slark
Chef: Soren Kristiansen
Press officer: Nick Howes

http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,25059_7651679,00.html

[printed 2012] Paris Roubaix

Team Sky line-up:

- Edvald Boasson Hagen
- Bernhard Eisel
- Juan Antonio Flecha
- Mathew Hayman
- Jeremy Hunt
- Christian Knees
- Ian Stannard
- Chris Sutton

Lead DS: Steven de Jongh
DS: Servais Knaven
Doctor: Geert Leinders
Carer: Stefan Szrek
Carer: Maarten Mimpen
Carer: David Rozman
Mechanic: Richard Lambert
Mechanic: Alan Williams
Mechanic: Gary Blem
Bus driver: Chris Slark
Press officer: Nick Howes

http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,22762_7122061,00.html

[printed 2011] Vuelta A Espana

And later in the evening a statement from the team doctor Geert Leinders read as follows: "We have examined Kurt tonight and the initial signs are good. We don’t have any reason to think that he has any concussion to his brain. He remembers everything and never lost consciousness during the accident, which is obviously a very good sign.

"He is covered in cuts and grazes but we can treat those effectively, and his only complaint tonight has been with his left knee. We have checked over the area thoroughly and don’t feel the need at this moment for any further investigation. There is no swelling and there doesn’t appear to be any broken bones or major trauma with the ligaments both inside and outside the knee.

"At this moment we expect him to be able to continue in the race, although clearly he is going to be very sore for the next few days.

[...]

http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,22762_7103270,00.html
Team Sky will line up on the start ramp with a strong team headed by Bradley Wiggins. The Brit is looking to bounce back from disappointment in the Tour de France and will be joined in Spain by Kurt-Asle Arvesen, Dario Cioni, Chris Froome, Thomas Löfkvist, Morris Possoni, Ian Stannard, Chris Sutton and Xabier Zandio

Just run a google search on the SKY website:

Leinders site:http://www.teamsky.com

 

[Dr. Maserati]

But Brailsford doesn't refer to the death of Gonzalez as the reason for hiring Leinders. He mentions the riders falling ill as the reason.

No - Brailsford mention both Txema's death and the riders falling ill.

When Gonzalez was taken to hospital, Brailsford and another of Team Sky’s doctors, Dr Richard Freeman, flew from Liverpool to Spain. When they landed, Brailsford switched on his phone to the news Gonzalez had died.

“When someone dies on your team and you feel you’re putting riders at risk… for all we knew the riders could have had the same thing.

“We sat down and realised that as a group of people we did not know enough about looking after people in extreme heat, with extreme fatigue. We were making calls like ‘no, on you go mate’.”

http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-a...ses-doctor-dilemma-we-are-100-per-cent-clean/

 

[Bala Verde]

Interesting article:



[Since 2007/Rasmussen] Under no circumstance is it allowed to 'push the boundaries of medical guidance/preparation,' the way de Rooij described the medical policy during his time at RAB. On the other hand, good results are required [from the bank/sponsor]. From dozens of conversations with insiders from inside and outside the team, it appears to be an irreconcilable combination.

Leinders left in July 2009, because he was unhappy with new RAB policies and management



(Off topic, this also implicates van Houwelingen, who was DS during Menchov's Giro d'italia win in 2009.)

He only needs to work with like minded DSs/management, where everyone has an (unspoken) understanding of what needs to be done in order to be competitive. No questions asked and everyone just does what needs to be done.

So in July 2009 he leaves and by 2010 he's got a new job at SKY is the timeline?

Didn't SKY say he worked only part time? Why, if you need to find replacement of a doctor, who for unfortunate reasoned deceased, do you resort to replacing him part time? Or was the other person also there part time? Or is he so much better that he can do everything in half as much time as other doctors do?

I do believe having seen Leinders name listed on the SKY website?

EDIT> Yes

http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,25179_7692582,00.html



http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,25669_7784970,00.html



http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,,17545_7552127,00+en-USS_01DBC.html



http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,25059_7651679,00.html



http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,22762_7122061,00.html



Just run a google search on the SKY website:

I just noticed he was team doctor during the Vuelta a Espana 2011, Criterium Dauphine 2012, Paris Nice 2012 and Romandie 2012.

Did SKY have any success there?

 

[Darryl Webster]

But Brailsford doesn't refer to the death of Gonzalez as the reason for hiring Leinders. He mentions the riders falling ill as the reason.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jul/11/dave-brailsford-team-sky

" Brailsford revealed that Team Sky are investigating Leinders' past and acknowledged that there may be a "reputational risk".

Leinders is not with Team Sky at the Tour, which Bradley Wiggins led entering Wednesday's 10th stage, and works for 80 days a year with the British squad, which has a zero tolerance attitude to doping.

Brailsford and Team Sky reconsidered their medical policy – initially no practitioners with a background in cycling were to be hired – after the death of the carer Txema González following a bacterial infection contracted during the 2010 Vuelta a España, citing the need for specialist knowledge to put the riders first."
Split hairs all you like . Regards being listed this for races this season, nice find..all the races Sky excelled in
But he aint listed on the full Sky roster, aint printed on there T shirts and apparently has been working with them 3 years yet only in the last month did it become common knowledge. And now Brailsford claims there gonna investigate his past!...pmsl.
You seriously cant smell owt odd here?

 

[The Cobra]

Whiter than white
^
|
| many
|
| MANY
|
| MANY
|
| shades of gray
|
V
Some doc who is WIDELY ACKNOWLEDGED to have SUPERVISED TEAM-WIDE DOPING at Rabobank FOR YEARS.


So I guess Brailsford said, "There are no whiter than white doctors... let's try the other end of the scale!"

Or maybe Brailsford made it clear there would be no doping on his team and he would be there simply as a doctor. Something he is perfectly qualified to do. Keep on scratching round in the dirt for that smoking gun.

 

[Benotti69]

I just noticed he was team doctor during the Vuelta a Espana 2011, Criterium Dauphine 2012, Paris Nice 2012 and Romandie 2012.

Did SKY have any success there?

Only because the riders didn't die, allegedly, if you believe Brailsford

 

[Caruut]

Or maybe Brailsford made it clear there would be no doping on his team and he would be there simply as a doctor. Something he is perfectly qualified to do. Keep on scratching round in the dirt for that smoking gun.

Yes yes yes, of course. Tell me, are you interested in buying Golden Gate bridge?

Perhaps all these things are just coincidences. To me, though, that seems like a pretty big leap of faith - one that I'm not prepared to make.

 

[the big ring]

Only because the riders didn't die, allegedly, if you believe Brailsford

I guess <not dying> is on their list of "marginal gains"?

 

[Benotti69]

I guess <not dying> is on their list of "marginal gains"?

Apparently just after warming down after a race!

 

[goggalor]

Or maybe Brailsford made it clear there would be no doping on his team and he would be there simply as a doctor. Something he is perfectly qualified to do. Keep on scratching round in the dirt for that smoking gun.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...n-Wiggins-and-Team-Sky-over-transparency.aspx

After the Michael Rasmussen affair, the team fired de Rooy and became far more strict about running a clean team. Leinders left Rabobank in July 2009, citing dissatisfaction with the team’s management.

Doesn't really add up does it? There's a lot more cash in being a doping doc then just a regular doc, I would imagine.

 

[the big ring]

Or maybe Brailsford made it clear there would be no doping on his team and he would be there simply as a doctor. Something he is perfectly qualified to do. Keep on scratching round in the dirt for that smoking gun.

How would brailsford know this was being adhered to unless he
1. does internal testing
2. sees biopassport info?

Oh wait. Leinders' skill was allegedly in avoiding positives - hmmmm.

 

[JRanton]

attributed to Brailsford in cyclesportsmag.com



http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-a...ses-doctor-dilemma-we-are-100-per-cent-clean/

That's an actual quote, thank you.

 

[JRanton]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jul/11/dave-brailsford-team-sky

" Brailsford revealed that Team Sky are investigating Leinders' past and acknowledged that there may be a "reputational risk".

Leinders is not with Team Sky at the Tour, which Bradley Wiggins led entering Wednesday's 10th stage, and works for 80 days a year with the British squad, which has a zero tolerance attitude to doping.

Brailsford and Team Sky reconsidered their medical policy – initially no practitioners with a background in cycling were to be hired – after the death of the carer Txema González following a bacterial infection contracted during the 2010 Vuelta a España, citing the need for specialist knowledge to put the riders first."
Split hairs all you like . Regards being listed this for races this season, nice find..all the races Sky excelled in
But he aint listed on the full Sky roster, aint printed on there T shirts and apparently has been working with them 3 years yet only in the last month did it become common knowledge. And now Brailsford claims there gonna investigate his past!...pmsl.
You seriously cant smell owt odd here?

I like to keep an open mind. But sure, the hiring of Leinders doesn't exactly help Sky's case. The fact that he (Leinders) was seemingly unhappy at Rabobank's attempts to clean up their act and then ends up at Sky a little over a year later is clearly not a great sign! I'll be interested to see whether or not Brailsford decides to get rid of him.

 

[Franklin]

BREAKING NEWS! Ferrari-Armstrong connection f.i.n.a.l.l.y. in the open.

Johan Bruyneel: We tried to run without a shoe cleat expert. But in the end, so many shoe cleats weren't attached right. We had a crisis meeting and decided we needed a shoe cleat expert.

JB: Michele really is a wizard with shoe cleats. Lance was able to run a much higher cadence afterwards.

JB: Of course we knew Michele was a reputational risk, but we had to get those shoecleats right.

JB: Michele simply is brilliant at fixing shoe-cleats.

 

[sniper]

I like to keep an open mind. But sure, the hiring of Leinders doesn't exactly help Sky's case. The fact that he (Leinders) was seemingly unhappy at Rabobank's attempts to clean up their act and then ends up at Sky a little over a year later is clearly not a great sign! I'll be interested to see whether or not Brailsford decides to get rid of him.

open your mind to this:
Leinders was not even fired, no, he voluntarily leaves Rabo in disagreement over the new zero tolerance policy. He's quoted as saying zero tolerance in cycling does not exist...
(read e.g.: http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/6504...-Tour-saai-Wen-er-maar-aan-zegt-Wiggins.dhtml)
Now what are the odds that he would choose his next job to be as head of a zero-tolerance cycling team?

 

[Bala Verde]

Just some background stuff here:

http://krant.telegraaf.nl/krant/archief/20020116/teksten/spo.wedstrijden.seizoen.leinders.html

wo 16 januari 2002

Rabo-ploegarts Leinders predikt voor minder wedstrijden en
beter rendement


JAVEA - De lat wordt andermaal hoger gelegd. Niets minder dan een podiumplaats in de Tour de France. Dat is het grote streven van de Rabobank de komende vier jaar. Na de dubbele winst in de Wereldbeker klauwt de bankiersformatie vanaf dit seizoen naar 's werelds grootste wielerronde. Meedoen in de strijd om het geel is immers de grote ambitie van de Rabobank-directie. Vanmiddag op de ploegenpresentatie op de Floriade zal Hans Smits, voorzitter hoofddirectie, die ultieme wens uitspreken. En natuurlijk heeft Jan Raas zijn ploeg daarop aangepast. Nieuwkomer Levi Leipheimer is de eerste troef voor het hoogste platform.


Ploegarts Leinders ...beter rendement...
Het nobele streven verhoogt de druk op de ranke rennersschouders. Dat beseft ploegarts Geert Leinders als geen ander. De Belg, die een steeds prominentere rol bij de profploeg vervult, deed de afgelopen jaren twee belangrijke onderzoeken naar de wedstrijdbelasting en de sportpsychologie van de wielrenner. Twee zaken die nauw met elkaar verweven zijn. Afgelopen winter zette Leinders deze uitkomsten op een rijtje om deze vanmiddag wereldkundig te maken.

"De bedoeling van het eerste research was om te kijken welk vermoeidheidseffect wedstrijden en trainingen op een renner hebben", geeft hij aan. "Onze vraagstellingen waren hoe snel herstelt iemand van een bepaalde wedstrijd en wat zijn de opties om optimaal te presteren."

De resultaten waren zelfs voor Leinders verwonderlijk. Middels een screening analyseerde hij diverse psychische en lichamelijke factoren wanneer een sportman oververmoeid dreigt te raken. "Daaruit is af te leiden dat het niveau van de wedstrijd ook de duur van het herstel bepaalt. Zowel fysiek als psychisch. Het blijkt dat niet alleen telt hoe vaak je in het 'rood' rijdt, maar dat tevens de beleving belangrijk is. Hoe leef je na een klassieker toe? Hoe gestresst ben je daarvoor? In de praktijk gaan we nu meer rekening houden met het programma voor en na afloop van bijvoorbeeld een klassieker. Ik ben een voorstander om het aantal wedstrijden dan te beperken."

Het onderzoek onderstreepte zijn visie dat de wedstrijdbelasting momenteel te zwaar is. Waar een Rabo-renner vorig seizoen al gemiddeld tien wedstrijden minder reed dan zijn collegae, blijkt nu hun aantal van gemiddeld 95 koersen per jaar zelfs nog ietsje te hoog. "Een vijftal wedstrijddagen minder zou het maximale rendement per wedstrijd vergroten. Vorig seizoen heeft uitgewezen dat de ploegleiding al op de goede weg was. Wij hebben een hogere efficiëntie gezocht door minder koersen te rijden. Tegen het einde van het seizoen hadden wij nog overal een compleet, fris team. Oververmoeidheid is de beste graadmeter voor de motivatie."

Daarnaast viel op dat er extreme verschillen tussen renners zijn. De een kan redelijk veel koersen in een jaar aan, terwijl de ander gebaat is met een beperkt programma. "Zo kan een renner redelijk gestresst zijn in wedstrijden, terwijl de ander de wedstrijden als voorbereiding gebruikt omdat hij thuis niet altijd de discipline heeft om maximaal te trainen. Al met al zullen echter renners die minder wedstrijden hebben gereden een hoger rendement halen."

De medische staf van de Rabank zag ook de nood om meer inzicht in het psychologische mechanisme van de wielersport te krijgen. De sport gaat immers niet alleen om kracht in de kuiten. Juist omdat er in de duursport nauwelijks onderzoek is gedaan, probeerde Leinders met sportpsycholoog Paul Standaert de valkuilen weer te geven. "We hebben de variabelen geïnventariseerd en die samen met de ploegleiding gedurende het afgelopen seizoen uitgewerkt. Het rapport is een ruggensteun voor onze renners." Leinders verduidelijkt dat een renner gedurende zijn carrière door diverse stadia groeit. "Er zijn tal van situaties waarin hij fouten kan maken, die emotionele en psychologische energie kosten. Als sporter moet je juist optimaal omgaan met je energie. Wij geven aan dat er in een mens een fysieke, mentale en emotionele batterij met elkaar in verbinding staan. Om optimaal te kunnen presteren en om mentaal te kunnen volhouden, moeten die batterijen goed in evenwicht zijn met elkaar. Daarbij zijn de mentale en emotionele factoren even belangrijk als de fysieke batterij."

In het rapport schrijven Leinders en Standaert dat het mentaal blijven volhouden een vaardigheid is die je kunt aanleren. Het is daarom belangrijk dat mentale en emotionele training op worden genomen in de weekplanning. "Een renner die goed in zijn vel zit, functioneert optimaal. Wat opviel, is dat veel renners zich tijdens een wedstrijd nerveus afvragen of ze wel optimaal getraind hebben in de voorbereiding. Die knagende onzekerheid vreet energie. Op beslissende momenten kan dit hen zelfs blokkeren. Als je weet dat alles volgens het schema is verlopen en dat je jezelf niets kan verwijten, vind je opmerkelijk genoeg op die momenten extra krachten om het aan te kunnen. Dat is een simpel, maar essentieel voorbeeld."

Aan het zelfvertrouwen van met name Erik Dekker, Michael Boogerd en ook Levi Leipheimer zal het op de vooravond van het seizoen 2002 niet liggen.

Amsterdam is definitief afgevallen als kandidaat voor de WK veldrijden in 2006. De hoofdstad had zich na de sluitingsdatum aangemeld. "We hebben er over gesproken, maar te laat is te laat", aldus Egon van Kessel namens de Koninklijke Nederlandse Wielren Unie.

De Italiaanse profrenners Dario Andreotti en Marco Magnani zijn gisteren als eersten door procureur Luigi Bocciolini verhoord inzake de dopingrazzia tijdens de afgelopen Giro d'Italia. Liefst negentig verdachten zullen de komende tijd in Florence aan de tand worden gevoeld door de procureur. Ook Jan Ullrich en diens teamarts Lothar Heinrich moeten zich melden. Evenals Marco Pantani.

Run it through google translate...

RAB had made a decision [2002] and was about to announce they wanted to pursue a podium place at the TDF. Leinders, as a doctor, had done research that to him suggested riders ought to do less races. "Around 90 race days per year would optimize results." and "considering everything, riders with less race days will have achieved higher efficiency". He also talks about finding a balance between the physical and the mental exigencies of professional road cycling, and stresses the importance of confidence 'feeling good about yourself." One of the things his research found was that, when riders don't know if they have trained enough, that lack of confidence, or trust in their own abilities or season prep, eats away energy and has negative effects on performance. The article concludes that at the start of the 2002 season "a lack of confidence won't be in the cards for Boogerd, E. Dekker and Leipheimer"

Also, his work indicates he applied a very 'scientific' approach at RAB, using lots of data to write a report to improve performance.

http://krant.telegraaf.nl/krant/archief/20010711/teksten/spo.wauters.rit.goed.weer.html

wo 11 juli 2001

[...]

Teamarts Geert Leinders verwacht ook dat zijn jongens er pas echt in de derde week staan. "De koerswijze in de eerste twee ritten heeft me verbaasd, maar toen heb ik al gezegd dat we rustig moeten afwachten. Pas in de Vogezen weten we hoe goed de jongens daadwerkelijk zijn. Dat heb ik ook voor de start gezegd. Natuurlijk moet je het geel proberen te verdedigen, maar we mogen in deze dagen de ploeg zeker niet opblazen. Kijk naar US Postal en Telekom. Die ploegen zijn het hele jaar op de Tour gefixeerd. Desondanks geven ze heel snel het initiatief uit handen als het hun ook maar enigszins uitkomt. Is dat angst of voorzichtigheid? In ieder geval is het een duidelijk signaal dat je je energie goed moet verdelen. Ook wij moeten nu opletten dat we onszelf niet voorbij galopperen."

http://www.henkleenaers.nl/fiets9.htm

2004

'Renners raken niet overtraind, maar
overkoerst'
Rabobank-ploegarts Geert Leinders over de beperkingen van
wielertraining

Trainingsschema's, bloedmonsters en laboratoriumtesten. Je zou haast denken dat wielerprofs tijdens de training worden klaargestoomd voor topprestaties in de koers.

Niets is minder waar, volgens Geert Leinders van Rabobank. Het grootste trainingseffect behalen de profs juist ín de koers. 'Je mag als renner hopen dat je niet meer kunt te trainen'

Again, he finds that riders are not overtrained, but overraced, and racing = training. "a good pro gets the training effects from races" and "the training effects a rider gets from riding the TdF are many times higher then simulations outside a race"

He is also convinced that:

. Neem je geen rust, dan kom je jezelf tegen. Dat is dan ook
het grote probleem van de topploegen die én in het voorjaar goed willen zijn én in de Tour én in het WK én op de Olympische Spelen. Dat gaat toch niet! Je kunt niet met een ploeg van vijfentwintig renners in al die koersen goed zijn

If you don't allow yourself to rest, you'll hit a wall. That's the main problem for top teams, who want to get results early in the year, during the Tour, the World Cup, and the Olympics. "That's impossible!" "With a team of 25 rider, you can't be competitive in all those races"

It also looks like he was physically present during the Giro 2009

 

[bommels]

Doesn't really add up does it? There's a lot more cash in being a doping doc then just a regular doc, I would imagine.

Agreed. From what I have read about Leinders, he is no 'doping doctor' in the sense that he has a 'programme' riders could subscribe to, like the Ferraris, and Fuenteses of this world.

As far as I understood, Rabobank has/had a no doping policy, however their riders reverted to doctors outside the team for 'training advice'. Rasmussen went to Italy (spelled Mexico), Boogerd and perhaps a few others went to Austria, T. Dekker went to Checcini (in Italy, not Mexico).

Of course team management got wind of this, and decided that since they could not stop the riders shopping around, they charged Leinders with avoiding positives, and preventing riders dropping off their bikes. Hardly a 'doping doctor' in my view.

Sorry not to fuel the Leinders hype. Now you can go shoot me down in flames.

 

[Darryl Webster]

Agreed. From what I have read about Leinders, he is no 'doping doctor' in the sense that he has a 'programme' riders could subscribe to, like the Ferraris, and Fuenteses of this world.

As far as I understood, Rabobank has/had a no doping policy, however their riders reverted to doctors outside the team for 'training advice'. Rasmussen went to Italy (spelled Mexico), Boogerd and perhaps a few others went to Austria, T. Dekker went to Checcini (in Italy, not Mexico).

Of course team management got wind of this, and decided that since they could not stop the riders shopping around, they charged Leinders with avoiding positives, and preventing riders dropping off their bikes. Hardly a 'doping doctor' in my view.

Sorry not to fuel the Leinders hype. Now you can go shoot me down in flames.

So " not a doping doctor" but one that helps riders avoid positives?
Can you see an ethical issue here?.
Its rather like the bank that knowingly launders money but isn't the thief.

 

[Benotti69]

Agreed. From what I have read about Leinders, he is no 'doping doctor' in the sense that he has a 'programme' riders could subscribe to, like the Ferraris, and Fuenteses of this world.

As far as I understood, Rabobank has/had a no doping policy, however their riders reverted to doctors outside the team for 'training advice'. Rasmussen went to Italy (spelled Mexico), Boogerd and perhaps a few others went to Austria, T. Dekker went to Checcini (in Italy, not Mexico).

Of course team management got wind of this, and decided that since they could not stop the riders shopping around, they charged Leinders with avoiding positives, and preventing riders dropping off their bikes. Hardly a 'doping doctor' in my view.

Sorry not to fuel the Leinders hype. Now you can go shoot me down in flames.

So by that line of thought, Sky have a doping doctor/s and Leinders monitors his work to prevent deaths!

Could well be!

 

[DirtyWorks]

Agreed. From what I have read about Leinders, he is no 'doping doctor' in the sense that he has a 'programme' riders could subscribe to, like the Ferraris, and Fuenteses of this world.

As far as I understood, Rabobank has/had a no doping policy, however their riders reverted to doctors outside the team for 'training advice'. Rasmussen went to Italy (spelled Mexico), Boogerd and perhaps a few others went to Austria, T. Dekker went to Checcini (in Italy, not Mexico).

Of course team management got wind of this, and decided that since they could not stop the riders shopping around, they charged Leinders with avoiding positives, and preventing riders dropping off their bikes. Hardly a 'doping doctor' in my view.

Sorry not to fuel the Leinders hype. Now you can go shoot me down in flames.

This indifference is sickening.

Let's bring this home. Bommels, your daughter has been born with natural gifts that allow her to become an athletic star. Part of becoming competitive is doping and doping early. Let's say you take the high road and you won't dope your teenage daughter by yourself for her chosen sport.

Instead, you take her to Leinders for her program. You are still doping your daughter. Leinders is your hero, right? Doping is still okay. Right? What would her doping program look like? You are indifferent to it all, so start with your kid.

 

[buckle]

Of course, the possibility exists that Leinders is the one actually to blame for Sky's current performances, but my (unsubstantiated) theory is that he's just the smoking gun that shows Sky has changed their policy, and that the actual guru remains unknown. Unless it's Kerrison.

Rabobank only had Rasmussen performing at incredible levels, even when the whole squad was encouraged to dope. Maybe Rasmussen got his fuel elsewhere, and Leinders was there to make internal tests on him to make sure there wouldn't be a problem with the official ones.

Idle speculation, of course. Sorry for the off-topic - I think it would be more interesting to get as many facts about Leinders as possible here before trying to analyze them.

If someone is in the background why not keep Leinders there with him?

 

[Franklin]

As far as I understood, Rabobank has/had a no doping policy,

The publicly and uncontested sources proof you flat out wrong.

Of course team management got wind of this, and decided that since they could not stop the riders shopping around, they charged Leinders with avoiding positives, and preventing riders dropping off their bikes.

Again, this is absolutely false. Leinders got a "Carte Blanche" to win a TdF.

I have uncontested open sources (see previous posts).

 

[Franklin]

I'm amused how the doctor who managed to win two Vuelta's and a TdF (and the year after the winner he managed to the Vuelta wins wins the Giro) is somehow seen as nothing more than someone who kept the blood tests in range.

There we have a Dr. who is part of the management teams, does the internal tests, full authority and a blanket check. And yet he has no control about what happens at all. Strangely enough, even without this control he manages to guide the team to GT wins without zero positives... all without any direct involvement (even though he had the implicit orders to get it done no matter the cost). And to make it even more amazing... alot of riders are involved at one bloodbank. Now some would call that indication of team wie doping, but clearly the riders just tipped each other of. But this unmanaged doping simply did not result in any positive.

Geert 'Chamois Cream" Leinders really is a brilliant doctor,.. he got away with it and clearly is still getting away with it.

But what's truly shocking is that not only clean Sky employs this man, now even the fanboys come out to defend this proven crook simply because it will tarnish their poster boy. They simply don't give a damn about cleaning up the sport.

Love for cycling indeed.....

 

[Libertine Seguros]

If someone is in the background why not keep Leinders there with him?

You would say that not having him on the website so that very few sources ever mentioned that he was with the team until mid-way through this year suggests that they DID keep Leinders there, until he was smoked out.

Its rather like the bank that knowingly launders money but isn't the thief.

I like this analogy. Makes me think of the episode of the Simpsons where Bart becomes a bartender for Fat Tony's gangster clan, and keeps boxes of their stolen and/or counterfeit goods in his room.

Tony: "is it wrong to steal a loaf of bread to feed your starving family?"

Bart: "Hell no"

Tony: "well, what if your family is very large? And what if your family don't LIKE bread? They like, well, cigarettes?"