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Geraint Thomas, the next british hope

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Curious though, is Thomas Sky's most bizarre transformation? Compared to Froome, for instance, at least there was a transformation here, whereas Froome came out of the bottom half of GC standings to contend Grand Tours, night to day. Wiggins, too, seemed to be more unbelievable. I guess we pick Sky's ridiculousness as whole and get outraged by another unexpected performance, which despite not being the biggest joke ever, gets our attention because it marks the zenith of Sky's flagrant team program, and we feel like we can't take it no more. I mean, at least this guy was already showing something on the hills two or three years ago. That doesn't justify his current season ofc, and while Monchique was sort of within believable, his Rettenbachferner and now Tour performances defy logic and common sense. But at least t'was the lowermost gradual, instead of a completely out-of-the-blue suck-it-up kick career and performance.
 
And say that he was on your VR "friend" list last year. :p


It's very simple. Those who closely follow the classics wouldn't be surprised at Thomas' performance because the guy already all of sudden discovered he was a classic performer at age 28/29, while never showing a notable performance before, except 10th place at the Tour of Flanders in 2011 but that's nothing compared to 2014.

So don't tell me you didn't know.
 
BigMac said:
Curious though, is Thomas Sky's most bizarre transformation? Compared to Froome, for instance, at least there was a transformation here, whereas Froome came out of the bottom half of GC standings to contend Grand Tours, night to day. Wiggins, too, seemed to be more unbelievable. I guess we pick Sky's ridiculousness as whole and get outraged by another unexpected performance, which despite not being the biggest joke ever, gets our attention because it marks the zenith of Sky's flagrant team program, and we feel like we can't take it no more. I mean, at least this guy was already showing something on the hills two or three years ago. That doesn't justify his current season ofc, and while Monchique was sort of within believable, his Rettenbachferner and now Tour performances defy logic and common sense. But at least t'was the lowermost gradual, instead of a completely out-of-the-blue suck-it-up kick career and performance.

Sky transformations ranked out of 10 (imo)

For comparison. I will list a few others first.

Armstrong 7
Indurain 7
Sayer 3
Riis 8
Santamborgio 5
Horner 8
Jallabert 7.5
Average gt winner 3

5 Mick Rogers 6
4 Richie Porte 7
3 Geraint Thomas 7.5 (and rising)
2 Chris Froome 10
1 Bradley Wiggins 11
 
Jun 15, 2009
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snccdcno said:
FoxxyBrown1111 said:
OK, everybody has a round with those pics... so I join.
Actually, besides doping, I see cyclists suffering. That´s all. Thomas has a different grimace. But it´s not like he is laughing all the way up like another infamous doper did in Spain.

Indeed, today's picture was great but still prefer this one

Chris-Horner-and-Vincenzo-Nibali-659x440.jpg

Unmatched... not even Thomas or any other Sky rider comes close. This guy smiled his way up mountains trou-out that Vuelta, out of the saddle for hours. :eek: There are hundreds of this kind of pics of him.
At least Sky riders, and Wiggins at the clean team™, transform/ed mid 20s to low 30s... Which is still absurd, since such things never happened before Rijs & Co. And we all know what they were on...
 
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The Hitch said:
BigMac said:
Curious though, is Thomas Sky's most bizarre transformation? Compared to Froome, for instance, at least there was a transformation here, whereas Froome came out of the bottom half of GC standings to contend Grand Tours, night to day. Wiggins, too, seemed to be more unbelievable. I guess we pick Sky's ridiculousness as whole and get outraged by another unexpected performance, which despite not being the biggest joke ever, gets our attention because it marks the zenith of Sky's flagrant team program, and we feel like we can't take it no more. I mean, at least this guy was already showing something on the hills two or three years ago. That doesn't justify his current season ofc, and while Monchique was sort of within believable, his Rettenbachferner and now Tour performances defy logic and common sense. But at least t'was the lowermost gradual, instead of a completely out-of-the-blue suck-it-up kick career and performance.

Sky transformations ranked out of 10 (imo)

For comparison. I will list a few others first.

Armstrong 7
Indurain 7
Sayer 3
Riis 8
Santamborgio 5
Horner 8
Jallabert 7.5
Average gt winner 3

5 Mick Rogers 6
4 Richie Porte 7
3 Geraint Thomas 7.5 (and rising)
2 Chris Froome 10
1 Bradley Wiggins 11

Rominger?

My transfo T-10:
Horner 1 (out of contract) to 10, winning a GT at 40whatever, an age where even the best had to retire
Wiggins 1 to 9
Armstrong 2 to 9
Rominger 2 to 9
Rijs 1 to 8
Froome 1 to 8
Mauri 2 to 8
GThomas 2 to 7
Indurain 4 to 9
Jalabert 3 to 7
 
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BigMac said:
Curious though, is Thomas Sky's most bizarre transformation? Compared to Froome, for instance, at least there was a transformation here, whereas Froome came out of the bottom half of GC standings to contend Grand Tours, night to day. Wiggins, too, seemed to be more unbelievable. I guess we pick Sky's ridiculousness as whole and get outraged by another unexpected performance, which despite not being the biggest joke ever, gets our attention because it marks the zenith of Sky's flagrant team program, and we feel like we can't take it no more. I mean, at least this guy was already showing something on the hills two or three years ago. That doesn't justify his current season ofc, and while Monchique was sort of within believable, his Rettenbachferner and now Tour performances defy logic and common sense. But at least t'was the lowermost gradual, instead of a completely out-of-the-blue suck-it-up kick career and performance.

Wiggo & Froome's transformations were worse. G's is still pretty ridiculous though.
 
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Archibald said:
Fearless Greg Lemond said:
We can now safely say Barloworld was one of the most talented teams out there. Let's ask Corti on his views regarding Thomas.
Augstyn and Cummings went to Sky...
Augustyn is a year younger than G, so would he be a GT contender next year if he'd stayed with Sky?

If someone said Sky would be doing what they are doing now with 2 riders, I'd guess Augustyn and EBH or something back then. All their transformations are totally crazy. Thomas' is up there with Froome.
 
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Thomas' performances in the Tour has given me hope that in the coming years, Usain Bolt can run as fast as El Guerrouj in the 1500m. That will be a sight to behold :p
 
Thomas's entire career until 2013 has been focused on the track while being a domestique to pay the bills. It's completely pointless to look at his road palamares to determine a riders validity or potential in the classics or GTs when they are permanently training to 4 year Olympic programme on the track.

In my view, his Junior Roubaix win in 2004 was probably the only early indicator he had something special for the road, but he chose the track instead. Really his rise on the road only began in 2013 after the London Olympics. It has taken a year to transform him back to his 2004 potential for the classics and then another year to be a good climber. I don't see anything unbelievable in Thomas other than hard work and desire and love of the sport.

Just take comfort knowing that Sky is on the same path as the BC Track Program and nothing untoward has been found in that success story and rider transformation in 20 years now. I would guess nothing untoward will be found with Team Sky after 20 years either considering it's the same chap heading it up!
 
Re:

samhocking said:
Just take comfort knowing that Sky is on the same path as the BC Track Program and nothing untoward has been found in that success story and rider transformation in 20 years now. I would guess nothing untoward will be found with Team Sky after 20 years either considering it's the same chap heading it up!

BC Track Program has looked doped to the gills for 20 years. The fact that nothing untoward has ever been found in their success rather points towards the assumption that the ones who should be finding something are instead giving support in avoiding being caught. UK endurance athletes are amongst most suspicious group of sportsmen around.
 
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samhocking said:
Thomas's entire career until 2013 has been focused on the track while being a domestique to pay the bills. It's completely pointless to look at his road palamares to determine a riders validity or potential in the classics or GTs when they are permanently training to 4 year Olympic programme on the track.

In my view, his Junior Roubaix win in 2004 was probably the only early indicator he had something special for the road, but he chose the track instead. Really his rise on the road only began in 2013 after the London Olympics. It has taken a year to transform him back to his 2004 potential for the classics and then another year to be a good climber. I don't see anything unbelievable in Thomas other than hard work and desire and love of the sport.

Just take comfort knowing that Sky is on the same path as the BC Track Program and nothing untoward has been found in that success story and rider transformation in 20 years now. I would guess nothing untoward will be found with Team Sky after 20 years either considering it's the same chap heading it up!

Winning Junior Roubaix means nothing, after all guys like; Sergey Lagutin, Eric Baumann, Dmitry Kozonchuk and Damien Nazon(lantern rouge "winner" in the '98 TDF) have won Paris–Roubaix Espoirs and achieved nothing of note as a pro. I guess they just had bad luck that they weren't born in Britain.
 
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samhocking said:
In my view, his Junior Roubaix win in 2004 was probably the only early indicator he had something special for the road, but he chose the track instead. Really his rise on the road only began in 2013 after the London Olympics. It has taken a year to transform him back to his 2004 potential for the classics and then another year to be a good climber. I don't see anything unbelievable in Thomas other than hard work and desire and love of the sport.

!

Paris roubaix juniors and also espoirs is a great indicator for climbing top 5 tdf. The Dutch are struggling with Gesink and Mollema for top 10. They should go for top 5 with Former winners juniors/espoirs. Shame Veelers, Sinkeldam, De Kort, Kreder and Vermeltfort are more focussing on lead out and sprinting. ...
 
Re: Re:

Gogojv said:
samhocking said:
In my view, his Junior Roubaix win in 2004 was probably the only early indicator he had something special for the road, but he chose the track instead. Really his rise on the road only began in 2013 after the London Olympics. It has taken a year to transform him back to his 2004 potential for the classics and then another year to be a good climber. I don't see anything unbelievable in Thomas other than hard work and desire and love of the sport.

!

Paris roubaix juniors and also espoirs is a great indicator for climbing top 5 tdf. The Dutch are struggling with Gesink and Mollema for top 10. They should go for top 5 with Former winners juniors/espoirs. Shame Veelers, Sinkeldam, De Kort, Kreder and Vermeltfort are more focussing on lead out and sprinting. ...
SKYMagic™ only works on british riders.
 
Re: Re:

BYOP88 said:
samhocking said:
Thomas's entire career until 2013 has been focused on the track while being a domestique to pay the bills. It's completely pointless to look at his road palamares to determine a riders validity or potential in the classics or GTs when they are permanently training to 4 year Olympic programme on the track.

In my view, his Junior Roubaix win in 2004 was probably the only early indicator he had something special for the road, but he chose the track instead. Really his rise on the road only began in 2013 after the London Olympics. It has taken a year to transform him back to his 2004 potential for the classics and then another year to be a good climber. I don't see anything unbelievable in Thomas other than hard work and desire and love of the sport.

Just take comfort knowing that Sky is on the same path as the BC Track Program and nothing untoward has been found in that success story and rider transformation in 20 years now. I would guess nothing untoward will be found with Team Sky after 20 years either considering it's the same chap heading it up!

Winning Junior Roubaix means nothing, after all guys like; Sergey Lagutin, Eric Baumann, Dmitry Kozonchuk and Damien Nazon(lantern rouge "winner" in the '98 TDF) have won Paris–Roubaix Espoirs and achieved nothing of note as a pro. I guess they just had bad luck that they weren't born in Britain.

To be honest, you are not doing yourself any favor with that argumentation. Just that some talented* young cyclist didn't make it big does not validate anything. Just look at the NHL.There are number 1 draft picks that were big busts, yet the majority are dominating the league. So to say, it means nothing to be the number 1 pick is just no true. You are likely among the best young athletes.

And the fact that he focused on track up to 2012-2013 should the give some slack. Not as in, "he is clean" but to say: "OMG he is worse than Bjarne Riis" is maybe a bit much if you ask me.

*In cycling it was/is hard to tell who is talented as they often(?) started doping pretty early.
 
Re: Re:

Mr.38% said:
SKYMagic™ only works on british riders.

THIS! If it was only hard work, better preparation & other "professionalism" of TeamSky, there would be roughly similar development of "monsters" amongst all nationalities employed by the team. It is not even close to that.

That fact alone implies that there is certain "knowledge" & "methods" which are mired deep in NCC and which is mostly not leaked to foreign members of TeamSky (Porte is an obvious mislier).

Even the most successful "mercenaries" like Henao & Uran achieved something well in line with their expected trajectory. That doesn't make them clean, but that would hint that they hadn't/haven't had access to ALL resources.
 
Re: Re:

Walkman said:
BYOP88 said:
samhocking said:
Thomas's entire career until 2013 has been focused on the track while being a domestique to pay the bills. It's completely pointless to look at his road palamares to determine a riders validity or potential in the classics or GTs when they are permanently training to 4 year Olympic programme on the track.

In my view, his Junior Roubaix win in 2004 was probably the only early indicator he had something special for the road, but he chose the track instead. Really his rise on the road only began in 2013 after the London Olympics. It has taken a year to transform him back to his 2004 potential for the classics and then another year to be a good climber. I don't see anything unbelievable in Thomas other than hard work and desire and love of the sport.

Just take comfort knowing that Sky is on the same path as the BC Track Program and nothing untoward has been found in that success story and rider transformation in 20 years now. I would guess nothing untoward will be found with Team Sky after 20 years either considering it's the same chap heading it up!

Winning Junior Roubaix means nothing, after all guys like; Sergey Lagutin, Eric Baumann, Dmitry Kozonchuk and Damien Nazon(lantern rouge "winner" in the '98 TDF) have won Paris–Roubaix Espoirs and achieved nothing of note as a pro. I guess they just had bad luck that they weren't born in Britain.

To be honest, you are not doing yourself any favor with that argumentation. Just that some talented* young cyclist didn't make it big does not validate anything. Just look at the NHL.There are number 1 draft picks that were big busts, yet the majority are dominating the league. So to say, it means nothing to be the number 1 pick is just no true. You are likely among the best young athletes.

And the fact that he focused on track up to 2012-2013 should the give some slack. Not as in, "he is clean" but to say: "OMG he is worse than Bjarne Riis" is maybe a bit much if you ask me.

*In cycling it was/is hard to tell who is talented as they often(?) started doping pretty early.
Some former winners of Paris Roubaix Espoirs:

1990 France Thierry Gouvenou (FRA)
1991 France Eric Larue (FRA)
1992 France Stéphane Chanteur (FRA)
1993 Poland Marek Lesniewski (POL)
1994 Belgium Kurt Dhont (BEL)
1995 France Damien Nazon (FRA)
1996 Belgium Dany Baeyens (BEL)
1997 Belgium Marc Chanoine (BEL)
1998 Norway Thor Hushovd (NOR)
1999 France Sébastien Joly (FRA)
2000 Germany Eric Baumann (GER) Germany (national team)
2001 Ukraine Yaroslav Popovych (UKR) Zoccorinese-Vellutex
2002 Russia Mikhail Timochine (RUS) Zoccorinese-Vellutex
2003 Uzbekistan Sergey Lagutin (UZB) Uzbekistan (national team)
2004 Netherlands Koen de Kort (NED) Rabobank GS3
2005 Russia Dmitry Kozontchuk (RUS) Rabobank Continental Team
2006 Netherlands Tom Veelers (NED) Rabobank Continental Team
2007 France Damien Gaudin (FRA) Vendée U
2008 Netherlands Coen Vermeltfoort (NED) Rabobank Continental Team
2009 United States Taylor Phinney (USA) Trek-Livestrong
2010 United States Taylor Phinney (USA) Trek-Livestrong
2011 Netherlands Ramon Sinkeldam (NED) Rabobank Continental Team
2012 Luxembourg Bob Jungels (LUX) Leopard-Trek Continental
2013 No race
2014 Netherlands Mike Teunissen (NED) Rabobank Development Team
2015 Switzerland Lukas Spengler (SUI)

I see one rider who has finished on the podium of a GT on this list....