Geraint Thomas, the next british hope

[Dear Wiggo]

Re:

Thomas's entire career until 2013 has been focused on the track while being a domestique to pay the bills. It's completely pointless to look at his road palamares to determine a riders validity or potential in the classics or GTs when they are permanently training to 4 year Olympic programme on the track.

In my view, his Junior Roubaix win in 2004 was probably the only early indicator he had something special for the road, but he chose the track instead. Really his rise on the road only began in 2013 after the London Olympics. It has taken a year to transform him back to his 2004 potential for the classics and then another year to be a good climber. I don't see anything unbelievable in Thomas other than hard work and desire and love of the sport.

As I said on Twitter:

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re:

Just take comfort knowing that Sky is on the same path as the BC Track Program and nothing untoward has been found in that success story and rider transformation in 20 years now. I would guess nothing untoward will be found with Team Sky after 20 years either considering it's the same chap heading it up!

Rob Hayles.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Re: Re:

Thomas's entire career until 2013 has been focused on the track while being a domestique to pay the bills. It's completely pointless to look at his road palamares to determine a riders validity or potential in the classics or GTs when they are permanently training to 4 year Olympic programme on the track.

In my view, his Junior Roubaix win in 2004 was probably the only early indicator he had something special for the road, but he chose the track instead. Really his rise on the road only began in 2013 after the London Olympics. It has taken a year to transform him back to his 2004 potential for the classics and then another year to be a good climber. I don't see anything unbelievable in Thomas other than hard work and desire and love of the sport.

Just take comfort knowing that Sky is on the same path as the BC Track Program and nothing untoward has been found in that success story and rider transformation in 20 years now. I would guess nothing untoward will be found with Team Sky after 20 years either considering it's the same chap heading it up!

Winning Junior Roubaix means nothing, after all guys like; Sergey Lagutin, Eric Baumann, Dmitry Kozonchuk and Damien Nazon(lantern rouge "winner" in the '98 TDF) have won Paris–Roubaix Espoirs and achieved nothing of note as a pro. I guess they just had bad luck that they weren't born in Britain.

To be honest, you are not doing yourself any favor with that argumentation. Just that some talented* young cyclist didn't make it big does not validate anything. Just look at the NHL.There are number 1 draft picks that were big busts, yet the majority are dominating the league. So to say, it means nothing to be the number 1 pick is just no true. You are likely among the best young athletes.

And the fact that he focused on track up to 2012-2013 should the give some slack. Not as in, "he is clean" but to say: "OMG he is worse than Bjarne Riis" is maybe a bit much if you ask me.

*In cycling it was/is hard to tell who is talented as they often(?) started doping pretty early.

Some former winners of Paris Roubaix Espoirs:

1990 France Thierry Gouvenou (FRA)
1991 France Eric Larue (FRA)
1992 France Stéphane Chanteur (FRA)
1993 Poland Marek Lesniewski (POL)
1994 Belgium Kurt Dhont (BEL)
1995 France Damien Nazon (FRA)
1996 Belgium Dany Baeyens (BEL)
1997 Belgium Marc Chanoine (BEL)
1998 Norway Thor Hushovd (NOR)
1999 France Sébastien Joly (FRA)
2000 Germany Eric Baumann (GER) Germany (national team)
2001 Ukraine Yaroslav Popovych (UKR) Zoccorinese-Vellutex
2002 Russia Mikhail Timochine (RUS) Zoccorinese-Vellutex
2003 Uzbekistan Sergey Lagutin (UZB) Uzbekistan (national team)
2004 Netherlands Koen de Kort (NED) Rabobank GS3
2005 Russia Dmitry Kozontchuk (RUS) Rabobank Continental Team
2006 Netherlands Tom Veelers (NED) Rabobank Continental Team
2007 France Damien Gaudin (FRA) Vendée U
2008 Netherlands Coen Vermeltfoort (NED) Rabobank Continental Team
2009 United States Taylor Phinney (USA) Trek-Livestrong
2010 United States Taylor Phinney (USA) Trek-Livestrong
2011 Netherlands Ramon Sinkeldam (NED) Rabobank Continental Team
2012 Luxembourg Bob Jungels (LUX) Leopard-Trek Continental
2013 No race
2014 Netherlands Mike Teunissen (NED) Rabobank Development Team
2015 Switzerland Lukas Spengler (SUI)

I see one rider who has finished on the podium of a GT on this list....

Thomas Geraint wont be finishing on the podium as well.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Re: Re:

Love this photo:

Even Froome is like..... wtf?

I am laughing out loud here at home. Almost makes me think SKY are clean. I mean, this is just too crazy.

You think they dope?

 

[Catwhoorg]

Re: Re:

We can now safely say Barloworld was one of the most talented teams out there. Let's ask Corti on his views regarding Thomas.

Augstyn and Cummings went to Sky...
Augustyn is a year younger than G, so would he be a GT contender next year if he'd stayed with Sky?

But for his hip issues, maybe.

He was the most promising African rider at Sky in 2010.

 

[Franklin]

Re: Re:

You think they dope?

Without a shred of doubt, as should anyone who follows cycling.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re: Re:

We can now safely say Barloworld was one of the most talented teams out there. Let's ask Corti on his views regarding Thomas.

Augstyn and Cummings went to Sky...
Augustyn is a year younger than G, so would he be a GT contender next year if he'd stayed with Sky?

But for his hip issues, maybe.

He was the most promising African rider at Sky in 2010.

And Cummings finished better than Wiggo the year Wiggo won a stage of l'Avenir.

 

[carton]

Re: Re:

You think they dope?

Without a shred of doubt, as should anyone who follows cycling.

Really? All of them? Without a shred of doubt? No chance you're overstating it just by a sliver?

 

[carton]

Re: Re:

We can now safely say Barloworld was one of the most talented teams out there. Let's ask Corti on his views regarding Thomas.

Augstyn and Cummings went to Sky...
Augustyn is a year younger than G, so would he be a GT contender next year if he'd stayed with Sky?

But for his hip issues, maybe.

He was the most promising African rider at Sky in 2010.

And Cummings finished better than Wiggo the year Wiggo won a stage of l'Avenir.

Soler was the best of them at the time. No the type of rider that develops at Sky, though.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Thomas's entire career until 2013 has been focused on the track while being a domestique to pay the bills. It's completely pointless to look at his road palamares to determine a riders validity or potential in the classics or GTs when they are permanently training to 4 year Olympic programme on the track.

In my view, his Junior Roubaix win in 2004 was probably the only early indicator he had something special for the road, but he chose the track instead. Really his rise on the road only began in 2013 after the London Olympics. It has taken a year to transform him back to his 2004 potential for the classics and then another year to be a good climber. I don't see anything unbelievable in Thomas other than hard work and desire and love of the sport.

Just take comfort knowing that Sky is on the same path as the BC Track Program and nothing untoward has been found in that success story and rider transformation in 20 years now. I would guess nothing untoward will be found with Team Sky after 20 years either considering it's the same chap heading it up!

Winning Junior Roubaix means nothing, after all guys like; Sergey Lagutin, Eric Baumann, Dmitry Kozonchuk and Damien Nazon(lantern rouge "winner" in the '98 TDF) have won Paris–Roubaix Espoirs and achieved nothing of note as a pro. I guess they just had bad luck that they weren't born in Britain.

To be honest, you are not doing yourself any favor with that argumentation. Just that some talented* young cyclist didn't make it big does not validate anything. Just look at the NHL.There are number 1 draft picks that were big busts, yet the majority are dominating the league. So to say, it means nothing to be the number 1 pick is just no true. You are likely among the best young athletes.

And the fact that he focused on track up to 2012-2013 should the give some slack. Not as in, "he is clean" but to say: "OMG he is worse than Bjarne Riis" is maybe a bit much if you ask me.

*In cycling it was/is hard to tell who is talented as they often(?) started doping pretty early.

That's a very bizzare nhl comment. The majority of Paris roubaix winners become great climbers? No.

As for being focused on track pre 2013. Umm how many track events was he riding between 2008 and 2012?

 

[The Hitch]

G rode 80 days on the road in 2010 and 83 in 2011. By contrast in his 2 Olympic years he did 45 in 2008 and 48 in 2012. Yep, was really just focused on the track his first 2 years at sky.

Btw 80 and 83 are very high. Top quartile for world tour riders and more than any of the 3 gt winners those years.

 

[Tommy79]

Re:

G rode 80 days on the road in 2010 and 83 in 2011. By contrast in his 2 Olympic years he did 45 in 2008 and 48 in 2012. Yep, was really just focused on the track his first 2 years at sky.

Btw 80 and 83 are very high. Top quartile for world tour riders and more than any of the 3 gt winners those years.

Carrying the old track weight in 2010 and 2011 though?

 

[BYOP88]

Re: Re:

G rode 80 days on the road in 2010 and 83 in 2011. By contrast in his 2 Olympic years he did 45 in 2008 and 48 in 2012. Yep, was really just focused on the track his first 2 years at sky.

Btw 80 and 83 are very high. Top quartile for world tour riders and more than any of the 3 gt winners those years.

Carrying the old track weight in 2010 and 2011 though?

Had no problem shedding that weight between the cobbled classics and the Tour de Suisse. Matt Stephens comment during that race was pretty funny.

 

[Supimilian]

Budget Forklifts should target the giro next year with Bobridge.
Should be able to podium without too much trouble because track.

 

[Tommy79]

Re: Re:

G rode 80 days on the road in 2010 and 83 in 2011. By contrast in his 2 Olympic years he did 45 in 2008 and 48 in 2012. Yep, was really just focused on the track his first 2 years at sky.

Btw 80 and 83 are very high. Top quartile for world tour riders and more than any of the 3 gt winners those years.

Carrying the old track weight in 2010 and 2011 though?

Had no problem shedding that weight between the cobbled classics and the Tour de Suisse. Matt Stephens comment during that race was pretty funny.

Maybe. But he didn't in 2010 and 2011.

 

[blackcat]

Re:

Budget Forklifts should target the giro next year with Bobridge.
Should be able to podium without too much trouble because track.

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

Maybe. But he didn't in 2010 and 2011.

Says who? That's a circular argument: he didn't climb extraordinarily well, so he must have been carrying his track weight. And he was carrying his track weight, so he couldn't climb extraordinarily well?

Thomas in 2010 and 2011 already climbed reasonably well, and much better than in 2012, when he was, in fact, carrying extra track weight. This is something else.

 

[heythorp]

Froome backs Thomas to lead Tour team:

Having been a super-domestique for Bradley Wiggins in 2012 when his countryman became the first ever British Tour winner, Froome believes Thomas can also step up from helper to leader one day.

"Obviously it's a role I'm familiar with, a role I've done myself in the past," said Froome.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/froome-backs-thomas-lead-tour-team-235649683--spt.html

"Geraint's been great, absolutely fantastic -- he was there all through the first week on the Tour, in crosswinds and in the rain.

"We've got into the Pyrenees and finished the hardest Pyrenean stages now and he's been right up there in both of them.

"It's fantastic riding by him, I don't think it's going to be long before we see 'G' leading a Grand Tour for himself."

 

[Tommy79]

Re: Re:

Maybe. But he didn't in 2010 and 2011.

Says who? That's a circular argument: he didn't climb extraordinarily well, so he must have been carrying his track weight. And he was carrying his track weight, so he couldn't climb extraordinarily well?

Thomas in 2010 and 2011 already climbed reasonably well, and much better than in 2012, when he was, in fact, carrying extra track weight. This is something else.

So... you think Sky just started doping him this year? That makes less sense. He's there most marketable star, if we go full *** on the conspiracy theories G would be the one who took over from Wiggins.

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

So... you think Sky just started doping him this year? That makes less sense. He's there most marketable star, if we go full *** on the conspiracy theories G would be the one who took over from Wiggins.

I think it's definitely a possibility that he only got the A-team treatment this season. Why they'd do that, I cannot say. Maybe he simply didn't wanna before. Maybe they figured they didn't need him because Porte wasn't in the last year of his contract. Or maybe they're just trying something new this season to which Thomas responds particularly well (and this might explain the team's resurgence this year).

Too many possibilities. I don't know. What I do know is that Thomas made a gigantic leap forward this year, at 29, and more often than not there's exactly one explanation for that.

 

[BYOP88]

Re: Re:

Maybe. But he didn't in 2010 and 2011.

Says who? That's a circular argument: he didn't climb extraordinarily well, so he must have been carrying his track weight. And he was carrying his track weight, so he couldn't climb extraordinarily well?

Thomas in 2010 and 2011 already climbed reasonably well, and much better than in 2012, when he was, in fact, carrying extra track weight. This is something else.

So... you think Sky just started doping him this year? That makes less sense. He's there most marketable star, if we go full *** on the conspiracy theories G would be the one who took over from Wiggins.

Tommy, whilst some are anti-Sky/Froome/Thomas etc etc. Hrotha isn't one of those. If someone was posting 'Thomas is doing something blah blah blah' and Hrotha thought that post was nonsense, he'd call it out.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

Thomas's entire career until 2013 has been focused on the track while being a domestique to pay the bills. It's completely pointless to look at his road palamares to determine a riders validity or potential in the classics or GTs when they are permanently training to 4 year Olympic programme on the track.

In my view, his Junior Roubaix win in 2004 was probably the only early indicator he had something special for the road, but he chose the track instead. Really his rise on the road only began in 2013 after the London Olympics. It has taken a year to transform him back to his 2004 potential for the classics and then another year to be a good climber. I don't see anything unbelievable in Thomas other than hard work and desire and love of the sport.

Just take comfort knowing that Sky is on the same path as the BC Track Program and nothing untoward has been found in that success story and rider transformation in 20 years now. I would guess nothing untoward will be found with Team Sky after 20 years either considering it's the same chap heading it up!

NEVER TESTED POSITIVE IN 20 YEARS!!!! Must be clean................

 

[Echoes]

Re: Re:

What I do know is that Thomas made a gigantic leap forward this year, at 29, and more often than not there's exactly one explanation for that.

JULY POST!

You just woke up or what ...

 

[hrotha]

What the hell are you babbling about. Suisse didn't happen?

 

[Echoes]

It did. As much as 2014 Paris-Nice, Tour of Flanders & Paris-Roubaix. The leap from Out of time limits to 7th at Paris-Roubaix is much more gigantic than what he's done lately, mind you.

You didn't say anything back then. As usual, "dirty" performances can only happen in summer and on GT's. In the spring classics, it doesn't happen. It's small fry...