Giro 2013 rumours

[Parrulo]

Cause Wiggins wouldnt lose time on Dolomiti?

exactly, this tour was perfect for wiggins in terms of mountains.

short stages with rolling climbs where he could get great benefits from his train and where keeping a tempo going was easy.neither the mountain stages nor the climbs there giro usually uses aren't anything like that so don't think wiggins would be able to beat nibali as comfortably as he did in the tour on some proper giro parcours like the 2010 ones.

 

[airstream]

before the tour, the same people were saying:"the vuelta climbs favoured wiggins. there was no proper multi mountain stage". stop lying to yourselves.

 

[Eshnar]

with wiggins on the board it would be the end of the giro.(

Wiggo.is.not.going.
But if he goes, the Sky train would be the end of the Giro anyway.

 

[airstream]

Wiggo.is.not.going.
But if he goes, the Sky train would be the end of the Giro anyway.

he will ride faster then others in time trial mode.

 

[Eshnar]

he will ride faster then others in time trial mode.

Most likely. so?

 

[airstream]

Most likely. so?

so i see 2 scenerios of battle between on form wiggo and ilalian front. evil wiggo: he'll drop them all and take a couple of mtf's and a lavish one: he will let italians kick back in the final k and take 10-15 sec.

Cause Wiggins wouldnt lose time on Dolomiti?

wiggins may lose ground in the mountains certainly, but not enough to lose the race

 

[Eshnar]

so i see 2 scenerios of battle between on form wiggo and ilalian front. evil wiggo: he'll drop them all and take a couple of mtf's and a lavish one: he will let italians kick back in the final k and take 10-15 sec.


wiggins may lose ground in the mountains certainly, but not enough to lose the race

I see the third scenario instead: Wiggins won't come and Nibbles will get an easy win.

 

[airstream]

I see the third scenario instead: Wiggins won't come and Nibbles will get an easy win.

True. If Scarponi doesn't show anything from his 2011 fit, it will be as you said

 

[Netserk]

True. If Scarponi doesn't show anything from his 2011 fit, it will be as you said

2012 Nibbles > 2011 Scarponi

 

[Parrulo]

2012 Nibbles > 2011 Scarponi

indeed, but nibali has 1 key aspect of his riding style to improve. this year he improved his time trial and his acceleration a lot, he has now a great kick in his legs, but he needs to be able to keep an high tempo after an attack which is something he wasn't able to do at the tour.

 

[airstream]

acceleration against the guy who has a 2 minute advantage and felt absolute free to do everything he wanted, having huge edge in tt. yeah, he improved.

it was cat and mouse both on toussuire and peyresourde, something similar to menchov and schleck/contador at ax-3

 

[airstream]

TTs should be there in order to force climbers to attack. I thought it was common knowledge
Why, in your opinion, nobody attacked in 2012? Because no one had to. Gaps were so small everyone could win the Giro with just one attack. So everyone waited until the Stelvio because no one felt self confident enough. There were no attackers there, true... but let's not forget that Basso was able to win two Giros attacking at more than 30 kms to go. And Scarponi and Purito were there on Gardeccia.
Still none of them did nothing.
Purito attacked on the last km of the Stelvio. Because he felt he didn't need anything more. That's all. Had there been a TT before the mountains, it would be different.
Just like 2010 was beautiful only thanks to L'Aquila. It created gaps. Let's not forget the stage to Terminillo.

And how can you create gaps? Either you put a Zoncolan in the first 5 days, or you put a long ITT.

rather it's a widespread belief.
that's a bit illogical. small gaps can't delay a grand battle always cos sooner or later one feels better than others and and digs strongly. all big guns can not say to themselves at the same time:"i'll tear them into pieces in final stage". we didn't see this so no one could.

 

[Eshnar]

rather it's a widespread belief.
that's a bit illogical. small gaps can't delay a grand battle always cos sooner or later one feels better than others and and digs strongly. all big guns can not say to themselves at the same time:"i'll tear them into pieces in final stage". we didn't see this so no one could.

Didn't you already answer to this post?
Anyway...
the big guns can think of that if the final stage is (or is perceived as) the hardest by far. The stage to Pampeago unfortunately was just the day before, so nobody decided to gamble and risk to blow up the day after. Again, if there was a real attacker (let's say Nibali), he probly took advantage of the situation and gain more time. There wasn't though. The strongest rider was Purito who had all to gain by sitting on Liquigas wheel. And Basso, who was the self-acclaimed boss of the peloton, wasn't in shape and played poker for all the first two weeks.
Both of them, despite being regarded as non-attackers, did attack sometimes. The world is not divided in attackers and wheelsuckers.

 

[The Hitch]

And how can you create gaps? Either you put a Zoncolan in the first 5 days, or you put a long ITT.

Im definately up for the former.

 

[The Hitch]

exactly, this tour was perfect for wiggins in terms of mountains.

Him and Froome did eventually fly away from everyone on the stage Valverde won. And Jurgen VDB is supposed to be a superclimber on the level of everyone bar Contador and Schleck. No reason to believe Nibali, Scarponi, Pozzovivo or even a 23 year old Quintana, would cause him too many problems on a giro with 50k tt.

 

[Eshnar]

And Jurgen VDB is supposed to be a superclimber on the level of everyone bar Contador and Schleck.

The Nibali we saw this year is clearly above VDB. Anyway, just as I said, 2012 Sky train would easily crush any opposition both in the tts and in the mountains. Especially the rumoured mountains of 2013.

 

[brilleaben]

Little ITT/a hilly one is fine. Just let Purito get his GT win, and we can move on.

 

[airstream]

how is it possible to compare nibali 12 scarponi 11 contador 10 contador 12 train 12 train 20? its totally senseless. every year one gets stronger and others get weaker (both by themselves and just compared to a stronger one). and no one including riders themselves can evaluate it properly and even does not try.

 

[Eshnar]

how is it possible to compare nibali 12 scarponi 11 contador 10 contador 12 train 12 train 20? its totally senseless. every year one gets stronger and others get weaker (both by themselves and just compared to a stronger one). and no one including riders themselves can evaluate it properly and even does not try.

It must be the first time that I agree with you

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

The Nibali we saw this year is clearly above VDB. Anyway, just as I said, 2012 Sky train would easily crush any opposition both in the tts and in the mountains. Especially the rumoured mountains of 2013.

The Gavia isn't exactly a 6-7 percent drag like La Toussuire or Peyragudes. Galibier isn't, either. Same for Ventoux and Alpe d'Huez

Wiggins hasn't been tested on long and hard mountains since the Angliru.

The Sky train is ridiculously strong ............when Froome is a part of it. Otherwise, no.

 

[Eshnar]

The Gavia isn't exactly a 6-7 percent drag like La Toussuire or Peyragudes. Galibier isn't, either. Same for Ventoux and Alpe d'Huez

Wiggins hasn't been tested on long and hard mountains since the Angliru.

The Sky train is ridiculously strong ............when Froome is a part of it. Otherwise, no.

La Planche Des Belles Filles wasn't exactly a 6-7% drag...
As for Froome, I agree.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

La Planche Des Belles Filles wasn't exactly a 6-7% drag...
As for Froome, I agree.

True, Wiggins can hang with the some of the very best on the short-ish steep stuff like La Planche and Col de la Croix (Jura). I'm still not sure if long and hard climbs like the Gavia from the South suit him that well, though. The Madeleine and Croix de Fer obviously did a number on him. If it weren't for those climbs he would have powered away from Nibali on a climb like La Toussuire, IMO.

 

[airstream]

and if fresh froome attacks, the whole train seats on schleck's and contador's wheels. )

on a serious note, i don't think sky will be ever that strong as they were in this year's tour, but froome or wiggins can easily win without the train. in the tour they were by far better than anyone else on the climbs and actually the train performed a controle function purely.

it would be great to see froomy or andy here, but i fear it would be the 2006 edition remake. classic annihilation.

 

[Eshnar]

it would be great to see froomy or andy here, but i fear it would be the 2006 edition remake. classic annihilation.

you more than anyone else should know that Andy won't ever come here.

 

[airstream]

you more than anyone else should know that Andy won't ever come here.

but anyway i think he is adored by entire italy, no?