Giro 2017, stage 16: Rovetta – Bormio 222 km

[therhodeo]

Re: Re:

I really enjoy Landa's style. Never afraid to attack early out.

If he was up there in the GC, he was the only GC rider I could see attacking on Stelvio.

They have called him "an artist" on the bike. I think that is true.

He is in a exclusive club with Contador and Sagan.

Would do him well to study Sagan's descending.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

If Quintana does not attack is because he is not feeling very strong now!

I would attack with one leg if I was him, with 3 men up front and such deficit to Dumoulin. He doesn't have a heart of a champion...

Correct, but that is not his personality. He is also relying on attrition for all the remaining of the stages.

Well because of that personality he could very well lose this Giro!

The most entertaining tactics often aren't the best ones though. Quintana attacking in the last few kms over the top against a peloton still containing about 20 riders and trying to hold them off on 30km of descending/false flat is not a great tactic. You can't always control and force situations, if teams like Trek and Quickstep are unexpectedly working then you might have to ride more cautiously than the original plan.

Especially when there is still a really hard climb to come and another four subsequent mountain stages.

 

[Scarponi]

Re:

Happy for Kruijswijk for safely navigating his way through the snow banks.

He would be having some sad moments

 

[stetre76]

Landa looks pretty comfortable...almost looks like he doesn't have any bigger problems following Amador > superb descending (actually from both!)

 

[SeriousSam]

Re: Re:

I really enjoy Landa's style. Never afraid to attack early out.

If he was up there in the GC, he was the only GC rider I could see attacking on Stelvio.

They have called him "an artist" on the bike. I think that is true.

He is in a exclusive club with Contador and Sagan.

Contador and Sagan have been and are extremely successful. Their artistry stems from a will to win and the ability to pull it off. Landa has yet to win big

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

If Quintana does not attack is because he is not feeling very strong now!

I would attack with one leg if I was him, with 3 men up front and such deficit to Dumoulin. He doesn't have a heart of a champion...

Nairo has a history of not attacking until the last moment, this is no different. As much as everyone wants a Contador style raid through the mountains it will never happen with Nairo Quintana.

It would have been stupid as well with Trek and Etixx riding hardish at the front to protect their top 10 places. No point attacking until Dumoulin will have to take up a fair bit of the slack chasing.

Contador would probably have gone anyway, and then there would be the usual complaints that 'third party' teams were interfering in the race and destroying his chances. Quintana is a bit more calculating I think.

He could've shake that hard chase with one simple acceleration, and then try to shake Dumoulin before the top. No courage today, or feeling really bad...

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

If Quintana does not attack is because he is not feeling very strong now!

I would attack with one leg if I was him, with 3 men up front and such deficit to Dumoulin. He doesn't have a heart of a champion...

Nairo has a history of not attacking until the last moment, this is no different. As much as everyone wants a Contador style raid through the mountains it will never happen with Nairo Quintana.

It would have been stupid as well with Trek and Etixx riding hardish at the front to protect their top 10 places. No point attacking until Dumoulin will have to take up a fair bit of the slack chasing.

Contador would probably have gone anyway, and then there would be the usual complaints that 'third party' teams were interfering in the race and destroying his chances. Quintana is a bit more calculating I think.

He could've shake that hard chase with one simple acceleration, and then try to shake Dumoulin before the top. No courage today, or feeling really bad...

It's not a playstation game.

 

[dgodave]

Nice tunnel!

 

[deValtos]

If Quintanas feeling bad then fair enough. But if it turns out he can drop Dumo for 20s on the next climb then you do have to wonder what on earth he is thinking ...

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

If Quintana does not attack is because he is not feeling very strong now!

I would attack with one leg if I was him, with 3 men up front and such deficit to Dumoulin. He doesn't have a heart of a champion...

Correct, but that is not his personality. He is also relying on attrition for all the remaining of the stages.

Well because of that personality he could very well lose this Giro!

The most entertaining tactics often aren't the best ones though. Quintana attacking in the last few kms over the top against a peloton still containing about 20 riders and trying to hold them off on 30km of descending/false flat is not a great tactic. You can't always control and force situations, if teams like Trek and Quickstep are unexpectedly working then you might have to ride more cautiously than the original plan.

Especially when there is still a really hard climb to come and another four subsequent mountain stages.

He has three teammates up ahead ready to wait for him. They will easily distance a peloton with only a few tired helpers.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

Perhaps Quintana just doesn't feel that good today. It's not like he's immune to having worse days

These small climbers are so fragile.

Time to find a big Colombian breed!

 

[d-s3]

Quintana rarely rides courageously.
His Giro was won on half-neutralized descent, not by courage.
And Vuelta was Contador's courage.
He's great climber and he will likely win a lot in Movistar but he does not have the characteristics of above mentioned Sagan, Contador (and Froome recently) and he depends on his team a lot.

 

[dacooley]

way to catious descent from magria rosa group. feel like landa and amador are going to play out the stage win.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

If Quintana does not attack is because he is not feeling very strong now!

I would attack with one leg if I was him, with 3 men up front and such deficit to Dumoulin. He doesn't have a heart of a champion...

Correct, but that is not his personality. He is also relying on attrition for all the remaining of the stages.

Well because of that personality he could very well lose this Giro!

The most entertaining tactics often aren't the best ones though. Quintana attacking in the last few kms over the top against a peloton still containing about 20 riders and trying to hold them off on 30km of descending/false flat is not a great tactic. You can't always control and force situations, if teams like Trek and Quickstep are unexpectedly working then you might have to ride more cautiously than the original plan.

Especially when there is still a really hard climb to come and another four subsequent mountain stages.

Are you aware that if Quintana attacks this group of 20 riders would be blown to pieces! Pinot, Nibali, Dumoulin and Zakarin would try to chase immidiately, there would not be an organized chase, no team would be capable to bring back Quintana at that point. The best thing to do was to attack on Stelvio, either he was afraid, or feeling bad. If he was playing smart, well it's a smart way to not win this Giro!

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

He has three teammates up ahead ready to wait for him. They will easily distance a peloton with only a few tired helpers.

Well, I'm sure that will be the plan on the last climb. Why do it on the Stelvio when Dumoulin can still lean on Trek, FDJ and Quickstep to help limit any gap he can pull out? The whole point is to try to make Dumoulin follow Quintana to push him into the red. He doesn't need to if there is still a biggish peloton with several other teams prepared to work.

 

[Escarabajo]

People in this forum talk tactics like a videogame. LOL.

 

[Laplaz]

Quick-Step should let Sunweb do the work...

 

[MrTea1976]

Is 2:45 enough for Landa and Kruijswijk to compete for the stage win?

 

[rick james]

1970's Rolland went pop

 

[togo95]

Well, I'm sure that will be the plan on the last climb. Why do it on the Stelvio when Dumoulin can still lean on Trek, FDJ and Quickstep to help limit any gap he can pull out? The whole point is to try to make Dumoulin follow Quintana to push him into the red. He doesn't need to if there is still a biggish peloton with several other teams prepared to work.

There is no flat left after the last climb, where the teammates could help him create a bigger advantage.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Re:

If Quintanas feeling bad then fair enough. But if it turns out he can drop Dumo for 20s on the next climb then you do have to wonder what on earth he is thinking ...

Easy. This was never a good stage for a long range attack in the first place. It could have only turned out to be one in the case that Dumoulin was actually suffering on the Stelvio. Because (1) he's probably able to follow an attack on the Stelvios Gradients (2) he was only isolated insofar he didn't have Teammates left. Well he would still get help by default because of Pinot and Nibali on the very long descent. Isolating him only really helps you to gain Minutes on the flat and when no one is helping.
For a long range Mountain Attack it's stage 18 to look at. Cause you'll be able to create a gap big enough on the earlier Mountains and the descents protect your lead.
So (3) an attack on Stelvio would only burn up energy for the better opportunity later. You should be happy.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Are you aware that if Quintana attacks this group of 20 riders would be blown to pieces! Pinot, Nibali, Dumoulin and Zakarin would try to chase immidiately, there would not be an organized chase, no team would be capable to bring back Quintana at that point. The best thing to do was to attack on Stelvio, either he was afraid, or feeling bad. If he was playing smart, well it's a smart way to not win this Giro!

Well that would be the dream scenario. But Movistar obviously think the other riders are strong enough right now that it wouldn't pan out that way. Quintana is playing the long game; no need to waste energy to try to force something from 80km+ with another four mountain stages coming up. Obviously that's a bit annoying for us watching, but it certainly doesn't mean its a bad tactic imo.

 

[Netserk]

Re:

There is no flat left after the last climb, where the teammates could help him create a bigger advantage.

But, but, but... He will need to save at least two teammates for the leadout-train in the last km!

 

[Vesica]

New Movistar tactics...Amador to gain as much time as possible on Dumoulin. So for the next stages Dumo has to guys to react to..both Quintana and Amador

 

[laurensde+]

Re: Re:

If Quintanas feeling bad then fair enough. But if it turns out he can drop Dumo for 20s on the next climb then you do have to wonder what on earth he is thinking ...

Easy. This was never a good stage for a long range attack in the first place. It could have only turned out to be one in the case that Dumoulin was actually suffering on the Stelvio. Because (1) he's probably able to follow an attack on the Stelvios Gradients (2) he was only isolated insofar he didn't have Teammates left. Well he would still get help by default because of Pinot and Nibali on the very long descent. Isolating him only really helps you to gain Minutes on the flat and when no one is helping.
For a long range Mountain Attack it's stage 18 to look at. Cause you'll be able to create a gap big enough on the earlier Mountains and the descents protect your lead.
So (3) an attack on Stelvio would only burn up energy for the better opportunity later. You should be happy.

Correct.