Giro 2017, stage 18: Moena - Ortisei 137 km

[Red Rick]

It's totally fair for all of Nibali, Dumoulin and Quintana not to pull there. In the end Dumoulin did the right thing by pulling at 50%. Limiting the gap in a way that costs you very little.

I thoroughly enjoyed that moment though. 3 riders not giving a sh!t except the GC win and not bothering about protecting a podium spot. Beautiful.

 

[laurensde+]

Re: Re:

Tom Dumoulin wins Giro!

Dutch curse is finally over!

Youre trying to jinx him, you mean person!

He's sounding way too cocky, trashing Nairito and Vincenzo.

 

[Arnout]

Re: Re:

Quintana may not be the best climber in the world (Froome) but he is certainly better than any other riders here. One poor showing does not erase years of results, and instead of just focusing on the Giro like Dumoulin he is trying to win the Tour as well.

I think at this point he should skip the Tour and race the Vuelta instead. Better to win one race than lose two.

I think the problem with Quintana, and the problem I have with Quintana, is that he believed he could win the Giro without being 100%. Which will obviously cost him the Giro, and also shows an arrogance I'm not that fond of.

As previous post got deleted... why is not coming here at 100% (if true) arrogant? You always got highest marks on your school reports?

Because he decided to go for the double. Clearly he felt that the form he's in right now would be good enough to win the Giro. Otherwise I don't think he'd be here. Maybe arrogant is the wrong word. But he clearly overestimated his own capabilities. He didn't have to ride the Giro, he did because he felt his current form would be enough to give him the win (as it has before).

Although of course there's always the chance he's simply not that good, but honestly I don't see how Dumoulin as much as he's grown as a climber over the last two years would be able to keep up with 100% Quintana.

Yes, this is what happens in sport. Try to maximize what you have. Sometimes you succeed, sometimes not. I'd like Quintana to win anything he enters as he's cyclings last answer to a specific kind of calculated TT-based riding (not blaming anyone for doing this as it is clearly optimal for many), despite his perceived lack of trying. If he doesn't, too bad but I don't see why I should blame him for lack of physical ability. What would be stopping me from blaming everyone else not winning this Giro, including myself?

 

[Gigs_98]

This race is far from over. With 5 guys inside two minutes and the 6th only 2:07 behind Dumoulin there will probably be attacks left and right on the next two stages. I know these stages aren't as hard as todays or stage 16 but then again Quintana won the Vuelta last year on a pretty easy stage as well. I can absolutely imagine this Giro ending with a huge surprise and a guy like Pozzovivo or Zakarin winning the gc.

 

[glassmoon]

LOL @ Tom hoping those two losing podium to Pinot in final TT. I hope at least one of them lose podium to Pinot too. Saying that 2nd/3rd means nothing to them is just bullsh*t media talk imho (and disrespecting hard work of theirs teams).

 

[WheelofGear]

All the lesser GC guys won time on top 3. What a crazy stage.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Does anyone really believe that Quintana is going for the double?

 

[TheEnoculator]

Re: Re:

Tom Dumoulin wins Giro!

Dutch curse is finally over!

Youre trying to jinx him, you mean person!

He's sounding way too cocky, trashing Nairito and Vincenzo.

He's right though. Quintana and Nibali should have worked with him to shut down Pinot. Now they have a good chance to lose the podium.

 

[Red Rick]

This race is far from over. With 5 guys inside two minutes and the 6th only 2:07 behind Dumoulin there will probably be attacks left and right on the next two stages. I know these stages aren't as hard as todays or stage 16 but then again Quintana won the Vuelta last year on a pretty easy stage as well. I can absolutely imagine this Giro ending with a huge surprise and a guy like Pozzovivo or Zakarin winning the gc.

Nah.

Me and a few friends have stolen a snow machine and are driving it all the way up the Monte Grappa. Nothing any of you can do.

 

[DFA123]

This race is far from over. With 5 guys inside two minutes and the 6th only 2:07 behind Dumoulin there will probably be attacks left and right on the next two stages. I know these stages aren't as hard as todays or stage 16 but then again Quintana won the Vuelta last year on a pretty easy stage as well. I can absolutely imagine this Giro ending with a huge surprise and a guy like Pozzovivo or Zakarin winning the gc.

Pozzovivo winning would be incredible. Imagine him just dancing away on Grappa and gaining five minutes as everyone looks around.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Does anyone really believe that Quintana is going for the double?

I'm trying to figure out if he just doesn't have it this year or if he thought he could win the Giro in sub-optimal form.

 

[Arredondo]

Quite stupid actually by Tom saying he doesn't understand the tactics of Nibali and Quintana by letting Pozzo, Zakarin and Pinot get a couple of minutes and losing their potential podium place in that way.

Tom: Nairo and Vincenzo will do everything to make you nervous the coming days. If they are not able to do it by attacking and dropping you on the climbs, which is obvious atm, they will do it by getting as much riders as possible high up in GC. Then Tom will have to react in the coming days when someone like Pinot or Zakarin attacks from afar, otherwise there's the possibility they will grab the maglia rosa because of the lack of cooperation by the big three.

If Pinot attacks saturday in the valley between Grappa and the last climb, Nairo and Quintana can sit in Tom's wheel, hoping to wire him out, so they can profit from it and attack him at the right moment, when he's vulnerable and beyond his limit. Then they can break him and he can lose the Giro.

The more riders Tom has to keep in eye, the better it is for all his potential rivals.

 

[Forever The Best]

This race is far from over. With 5 guys inside two minutes and the 6th only 2:07 behind Dumoulin there will probably be attacks left and right on the next two stages. I know these stages aren't as hard as todays or stage 16 but then again Quintana won the Vuelta last year on a pretty easy stage as well. I can absolutely imagine this Giro ending with a huge surprise and a guy like Pozzovivo or Zakarin winning the gc.

I fear you are way too optmistic since there is a almost unipuerto MTF and a TT to go and Dumo can just gain enough time on Pinot, Pozzo and Zaka there. Zaka should lose the least and Pozzo the most but TD's gains on Zaka on these 2 stages will probably be enough to let him attack without threatening him on stage 20.

Well, all of what I wrote goes out of the window if you don't watch though :lol:

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Does anyone really believe that Quintana is going for the double?

I think he is. His great form at the Vuelta came as a bit of a surprise I think, so they're trying to achieve the same level this year at the Tour. Might as well give that a go, than do the usual and get beaten by Froome anyway.

 

[Jagartrott]

Re: Re:

Heh, Dumoulin "Quintana and Nibali only focus on me, [...], would be nice if they lose their podium spot in Milan"

"If there is a simple battle and Dumoulin is alone, the pink jersey has to close [down] everyone who attacks him. If I'm fourth and he asks me to work I won't do a turn, because finishing third or fourth won't change my life."

Vincenzo Nibali

And he's perfectly right, that's how you race to win, of course it's a gamble.

God he's not! How many times I have to repeat this.

A Pinot and Zaka close to Nibali are a potential help to Tom D in case he is dropped by Nibali.
Because they smell the podium.

On the other hand, now Dumoulin will also have to watch Pinot. I think Nibali and Quintana were right. Dumoulin got a free ride most of the day, even though he was without teammates for half of it. If they didn't leave him do some work, he would have been dragged to the line by nr 2 and 3 in the standings. That sounds quite ridiculous.

 

[Forever The Best]

This race is far from over. With 5 guys inside two minutes and the 6th only 2:07 behind Dumoulin there will probably be attacks left and right on the next two stages. I know these stages aren't as hard as todays or stage 16 but then again Quintana won the Vuelta last year on a pretty easy stage as well. I can absolutely imagine this Giro ending with a huge surprise and a guy like Pozzovivo or Zakarin winning the gc.

Nah.

Me and a few friends have stolen a snow machine and are driving it all the way up the Monte Grappa. Nothing any of you can do.

What if Gigs suddenly goes to a place with no TV and internet connection?

 

[Arnout]

Re:

Quite stupid actually by Tom saying he doesn't understand the tactics of Nibali and Quintana by letting Pozzo, Zakarin and Pinot wining a couple of minutes and losing their potential podium place in that way.

Tom: Nairo and Vincenzo will do everything to make you nervous the coming days. If they are not able to do it by attacking and dropping you on the climbs, which is obvious atm, they will do it by getting as much riders as possible high up in GC. Then Tom will have to react in the coming days when someone like Pinot or Zakarin attacks from afar, otherwise there's the possibility they will grab the maglia rosa because of the lack of cooperation by the big three.

If Pinot attacks saturday in the valley between Grappa and the last climb, Nairo and Quintana can sit in Tom's wheel, hoping to wire him out, so they can profit from it and attack him at the right moment, when he's vulnerable and beyond his limit. Then they can break him and he can lose the Giro.

The more riders Tom has to keep in eye, the better it is for all his potential rivals.

The voice of reason. Thank you.

 

[Red Rick]

I'm in dubio.

I thought he'd go for the Giro in great shape to win it most of the times and then to go to the Tour as a yolo last hurrah for the season with a GT already under his belt for the year.

Now I think it's possible that he came into the Giro a little bit undercooked, wasn't all that good and when you're not all that good you're not getting any better from crashes.

Edit, I also can't believe they truly think that Quintana was better in the 2016 Vuelta than in the 2015 Tour. There's just no way.

As of yet, the 21st century double remains an unsolved mystery.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re:

Quite stupid actually by Tom saying he doesn't understand the tactics of Nibali and Quintana by letting Pozzo, Zakarin and Pinot get a couple of minutes and losing their potential podium place in that way.

Tom: Nairo and Vincenzo will do everything to make you nervous the coming days. If they are not able to do it by attacking and dropping you on the climbs, which is obvious atm, they will do it by getting as much riders as possible high up in GC. Then Tom will have to react in the coming days when someone like Pinot or Zakarin attacks from afar, otherwise there's the possibility they will grab the maglia rosa because of the lack of cooperation by the big three.

If Pinot attacks saturday in the valley between Grappa and the last climb, Nairo and Quintana can sit in Tom's wheel, hoping to wire him out, so they can profit from it and attack him at the right moment, when he's vulnerable and beyond his limit. Then they can break him and he can lose the Giro.

The more riders Tom has to keep in eye, the better it is for all his potential rivals.

He starts talking like he has at least one GT under his belt and that this Giro is already won. Watch out Tom, it ain't over till it's over.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Re:

Does anyone really believe that Quintana is going for the double?

I think he is. His great form at the Vuelta came as a bit of a surprise I think, so they're trying to achieve the same level this year at the Tour. Might as well give that a go, than do the usual and get beaten by Froome anyway.

Well, that's my point. He knows that he can't win the Tour against Froome, so he might as well "go for the double" knowing that he has no chance of actually winning both, hoping to gain some credit for the attempt even though it's not really an attempt.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he "gets sick" before the Tour and targets the Vuelta instead.

 

[luckyboy]

Re: Re:

Tom Dumoulin wins Giro!

Dutch curse is finally over!

Youre trying to jinx him, you mean person!

He's sounding way too cocky, trashing Nairito and Vincenzo.

He's right though. Quintana and Nibali should have worked with him to shut down Pinot. Now they have a good chance to lose the podium.

Now Dumoulin has more riders within striking distance of him because he was waiting for others to work instead of riding to protect his chances to take his first pink jersey

What is more important to each rider? Dumoulin winning the Giro or Nibali getting third place

 

[Son of Amsterhammer]

For sure Nibs and NQ were right not to help TD at the end. That's pretty basic tactics. They are trying to win the race.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Does anyone really believe that Quintana is going for the double?

I think he is. His great form at the Vuelta came as a bit of a surprise I think, so they're trying to achieve the same level this year at the Tour. Might as well give that a go, than do the usual and get beaten by Froome anyway.

Well, that's my point. He knows that he can't win the Tour against Froome, so he might as well "go for the double" knowing that he has no chance of actually winning both, hoping to gain some credit for the attempt even though it's not really an attempt.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he "gets sick" before the Tour and targets the Vuelta instead.

Oh right, yeah I guess that's a possibility. But I think they also may genuinely believe after last season that Quintana can reach a higher level in his second GT of the season - a bit like Valverde often has done in the last few years.

So perhaps they thought they would try to mix it up one year. This way he should start the Tour strongly, which is traditionally where he's lost time to Froome, and then will hope he can hold on into the third week.

As you say though, it's impossible to know whether they believe it's a genuine possibility, or whether the is just shying away from Froome a bit. Valverde's a bit of a complicating factor as well now, given that he's looked the strongest stage racer going so far this season.

 

[Põhja Konn]

Dumoulin is the real deal and is very likely to win the Giro now. I know its still 3 days to go (and 2 mountain stages among them), but the writing is on the wall, it has been since tuesday night. Neither Quintana nor Nibali have the legs to keep up an attack that would seriously put him in trouble.
He had his moment of weakness when his intestinal system failed him and forced an untimely nature break on him and he responded to it like a champion.

Just saw his post-race interview at Eurosport. He very much sounded like a man who knows the race is in the bag.

 

[yaco]

Dumoulin looked strong today though the final climb tomorrow is tough - Yates has a small lead in the white jersey but will need to put another minute into Jungels to give him a buffer before the ITT - Expect Orica to ride hard tempo tomorrow.