Giro 2017, stage 19: S.Candido/Innichen - Piancavallo 191 km

[ice&fire]

Re:

Whoever wins the Giro, he owes Wilco Kelderman. Landa just about the best of them while being in every single breakaway.

Wasn't Dumoulin the last man riding on the left who avoided the moto and didn't warn those behind? They should thank him then

 

[Escarabajo]

This is the once in a lifetime opportunity for Pinot to win.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Horrible to see Nairo gets rewarded by racing so negatively.

Bad shape or not.

I think that's harsh. The other side of the same coin is that he's putting in an amazing battling performance to haul himself into pink, despite not having the legs.

He could follow all of Nib's acceleration. Then you can at least try something. Or just taking the responsibility of the race and let Rojas ride full tempo in that last 5 km.

He could have gapped Dumoulin even more if he didn't play those stupid mind games with Nibali and co.

Now he needs to take care of Pinot also, who is in better shape and is a superior timetrialist. And Nairo surely doesn't have the legs atm to attack and put the others on the rope.

I'm not sure he could have done. He was hauled back in easily by Reichenbach yesterday. When he attacked on Oropa he ended up losing time. He just doesn't have the legs, and so he had to basically mark Nibali today, as losing any time to Nibali would have been a disaster and would almost certainly have ended his chances.

Agree that Pinot is definitely a big threat; mostly because of how strong he looked relative to the others. He's got a very nice team as well. But has he got the confidence and ambition to try something as early as Grappa?

Not necessary by attacking, but by letting Rojas and the other Movistar rider (don't know who it was) ride full tempo when they were reeled in and get into their wheel to prevent the tempo dramatically drops, which was the case now.

Yeah, I guess you're right. Perhaps they were all just on the limit though - Quintana and domestiques - and were grateful for the moment or two of recovery themselves.

 

[Squire]

Re: Re:

Landa is the story pf what could have been. It's remarakable how much he has dominated in the mountains in this Giro. But for the early crash we could be looking at a Landa victory

Well, that's not entirely true.

With all the ITT in this Giro that alone would be his downfall. He's been in the break because he was let in the break, not because he's insanely strong.

He could contend but he would have to improve his ITT before he's considered a real contender.

That rainy day in Chianti was a TT, you know...

And your point is what? He lost 4 minutes to Dumoulin, you know...

My point is that in the Chianti TT last year, he lost 22 seconds to Dumoulin, and aside from Nibali (who gained 7 seconds) and Jungels of course, did the best TT out of all the GC riders.

 

[BYOP88]

Pretty bunched up in the top 5 GC places. Got to suck for Yates, if you take out the time he lost due to the crash, he'd be within a minute of Quintana too.

 

[huangho]

Re: Re:

Horrible to see Nairo gets rewarded by racing so negatively.

Bad shape or not.

Just so frustrating.

I agreed. Taunting as the best climber and the top favorite... he showed meh in the 3rd week. A bit disappointing. Froome will eat him alive in the TDF. Hope Contador can stay upright and arrives in superb form. Otherwise, Froome will kill everyone in the first week already.

Doesn't this just confirm why Quintana was top favourite? He's clearly well below his best, hasn't got the legs to even attack properly on his favoured terrain. Yet he's still leading the race right now, with a reasonable chance of winning it.

Are you serious? He just took the maglia rosa from a guy that's held it for how many stages? And you have to also consider the fact that Dumoulin would still be leading the race had it not been for the nature break in stage 16 AND the fact that they attacked him when he was taking another nature break today.

C'on!! Nature break was because his body is on the limit, not because an accident or something like that, this is cycling and this is a GT, a 3 weeks race and bodies are always on the limit, NQ and VN know it very well, and they are doing a wonderful Giro so far.

Can't wait until tomorrow!!

 

[Aguirre]

Tomorrow will remain Folgaria 2002, I said

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

Landa is the story pf what could have been. It's remarakable how much he has dominated in the mountains in this Giro. But for the early crash we could be looking at a Landa victory

Well, that's not entirely true.

With all the ITT in this Giro that alone would be his downfall. He's been in the break because he was let in the break, not because he's insanely strong.

He could contend but he would have to improve his ITT before he's considered a real contender.

That rainy day in Chianti was a TT, you know...

And your point is what? He lost 4 minutes to Dumoulin, you know...

Barely more than a minute to Quintana, who's in the lead and seems to be doing a lot more fading then Landa.

Okay, right. Landa would have won if he didn't crash because he was within a minute of the leader today with another longish ITT to go...

Landa is a strong climber, I get it. He's terrible in the ITT. The fact that he was within a minute of Quintana just says he got lucky compared to ITT's in the past, but it doesn't mean he would have won the Giro if he didn't crash..

Dumoulin is still the one in the drivers seat, not Quintana. On Sunday the rusults will focus on Dumoulins ITT, that's the yardstick that everyone will be compared to and that's probably going to be the winning ride.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Horrible to see Nairo gets rewarded by racing so negatively.

Bad shape or not.

Just so frustrating.

I agreed. Taunting as the best climber and the top favorite... he showed meh in the 3rd week. A bit disappointing. Froome will eat him alive in the TDF. Hope Contador can stay upright and arrives in superb form. Otherwise, Froome will kill everyone in the first week already.

Doesn't this just confirm why Quintana was top favourite? He's clearly well below his best, hasn't got the legs to even attack properly on his favoured terrain. Yet he's still leading the race right now, with a reasonable chance of winning it.

Are you serious? He just took the maglia rosa from a guy that's held it for how many stages? And you have to also consider the fact that Dumoulin would still be leading the race had it not been for the nature break in stage 16 AND the fact that they attacked him when he was taking another nature break today.

Well, that's kind of my point. Despite being well below-par, despite not being able to attack properly, probably despite not being the best rider in the race, he's still managed to put himself in the race lead with two stages to go. Because despite all the problems, he hasn't had a bad day, has dug deep when necessary and has taken bits of time here and there along the way.

This just highlights why he was rightfully the strong favourite. Because if he's on top form, he wins the race at a canter; and, if he's a long way from top form, he can still win the race.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

C'on!! Nature break was because his body is on the limit, not because an accident or something like that, this is cycling and this is a GT, a 3 weeks race and bodies are always on the limit, NQ and VN know it very well, and they are doing a wonderful Giro so far.

Can't wait until tomorrow!!

Exactly. And the other side of the same coin is that if Quintana and Nibali hadn't waited for a few minutes when Dumoulin had his physiological problems, he would probably be at least a further minute back by now. I think Dumoulin can count himself a bit lucky that they didn't push on immediately, just because he made an error eating too many gels.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re: Giro 2017, stage 19: S.Candido/Innichen - Piancavallo 19

What a weird stage though.

Kruijswijk (3rd week doesn't seem to be there this year), Dumoulin, Quintana and Nibali all in varying degrees of bad.
Pinot, Zakarin and Pozzovivo strong.

Man even Mollema is only 2'40 behind now. Crazy.

I will say this though, if this was just a bad day by Dumoulin, and losing 1'20, then on a normal or good day tomorrow he won't lose much, if at all. He can still win it.

 

[Eagle]

Re:

Pretty bunched up in the top 5 GC places. Got to suck for Yates, if you take out the time he lost due to the crash, he'd be within a minute of Quintana too.

Yates would be 2 minutes behind if he finished with Quintana on Blockhaus, and that's quite unlikely as well

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Giro 2017, stage 19: S.Candido/Innichen - Piancavallo 19

One of the top 5 guys that still in contention for any podium spot will fade tomorrow, big time. I don't see all 5 of them within a minute of each other, though that would obviously be very exciting!

I would like to see Dumoulin, Pinot and Zakarin on the final GC. That's just my opinion.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Ah being a fan of Dutch cycling is the equivalent of repeatedly banging your head against the wall.

Will be rooting for Pinot now.

I think you should stick with Tom.

 

[HelloDolly]

So how much does Pinot need on Dumoulin and Nibai tomorrow to bring to the TT to win

Maybe Tom was half right ...by watching him Pinot could take race from Nairo & Nibs but also from Dumoulin

Maybe this will be the karma

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

Ah being a fan of Dutch cycling is the equivalent of repeatedly banging your head against the wall.

Will be rooting for Pinot now.

I think you should stick with Tom.

Exactly, Tom Dumoulin is still in the drivers seat if he just holds pat tomorrow. If he can get through tomorrow he'll win the Giro.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

So how much does Pinot need on Dumoulin and Nibai tomorrow to bring to the TT to win

Maybe Tom was half right ...by watching him Pinot could take race from Nairo & Nibs but also from Dumoulin

Maybe this will be the karma

We can hope

But unfortunately I see the race going to Quintana in the end

 

[therhodeo]

Re: Re:

Lets all pretend like the tour isn't crap every year anyway.

It's not at all.

Don't watch it if you feel that way, it's pretty simple.

How many out of the past 20 years has it basically been neutralized by either US or UK Postal riding train on the front? How many times has the yellow jersey even changed hands in recent years? Not many.

 

[Irondan]

Re:

So how much does Pinot need on Dumoulin and Nibai tomorrow to bring to the TT to win

Maybe Tom was half right ...by watching him Pinot could take race from Nairo & Nibs but also from Dumoulin

Maybe this will be the karma

Pinot probably needs about 2 minutes at the least on those guys to have a legitimate shot, in my opinion. He's riding very strong right now and could conceivably attack tomorrow and gain that time he needs.

 

[jaylew]

Re:

Pretty bunched up in the top 5 GC places. Got to suck for Yates, if you take out the time he lost due to the crash, he'd be within a minute of Quintana too.

No. Depending on where you think he'd have finished, he lost between roughly 2 and 4 minutes. He'd be at best 2 minutes back and at worst 4 and a half back. It would likely be somewhere between those two. And he's pretty much made it back to the GC spot he'd be in anyway, though in the best case scenario he'd have jumped Mollema as well.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

So how much does Pinot need on Dumoulin and Nibai tomorrow to bring to the TT to win

Maybe Tom was half right ...by watching him Pinot could take race from Nairo & Nibs but also from Dumoulin

Maybe this will be the karma

Pinot probably needs about 2 minutes at the least on those guys to have a legitimate shot, in my opinion. He's riding very strong right now and could conceivably attack tomorrow and gain that time he needs.

2 minutes?! He's no Purito in TTs.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

So how much does Pinot need on Dumoulin and Nibai tomorrow to bring to the TT to win

Maybe Tom was half right ...by watching him Pinot could take race from Nairo & Nibs but also from Dumoulin

Maybe this will be the karma

We can hope

But unfortunately I see the race going to Quintana in the end

Quintana didn't look too special today. It was more a case of Dumoulin having an off day and it may not happen again tomorrow.

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

Lets all pretend like the tour isn't crap every year anyway.

It's not at all.

Don't watch it if you feel that way, it's pretty simple.

How many out of the past 20 years has it basically been neutralized by either US or UK Postal riding train on the front? How many times has the yellow jersey even changed hands in recent years? Not many.

To me that's not the point.

I love the Tour and think every stage is a great stage and every Tour is great. Everything you're talking about may mean the race sucks to you but to me I don't care because it's the Tour and the Tour is bigger than US or UK Postal riding around France in the yellow jersey.

I love the Tour because it's The Tour. You see?

There's a lot more people that think of the Tour in that manner than in the manner that you think it, that much is for sure.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

So how much does Pinot need on Dumoulin and Nibai tomorrow to bring to the TT to win

Maybe Tom was half right ...by watching him Pinot could take race from Nairo & Nibs but also from Dumoulin

Maybe this will be the karma

Pinot probably needs about 2 minutes at the least on those guys to have a legitimate shot, in my opinion. He's riding very strong right now and could conceivably attack tomorrow and gain that time he needs.

Pinot is definitely the better TT rider than either Nibali or Quintana. With the exception of Dumoulin (obviously) and maaaaybe Zakarin (if he's doing well) he is the second or third best TT rider of the men in the final GC battle.

 

[ice&fire]

Re: Giro 2017, stage 19: S.Candido/Innichen - Piancavallo 19

What a weird stage though.

Kruijswijk (3rd week doesn't seem to be there this year), Dumoulin, Quintana and Nibali all in varying degrees of bad.
Pinot, Zakarin and Pozzovivo strong.

Man even Mollema is only 2'40 behind now. Crazy.

I will say this though, if this was just a bad day by Dumoulin, and losing 1'20, then on a normal or good day tomorrow he won't lose much, if at all. He can still win it.

Spot on. That was quite more frequent 30 years ago. Performance ups and downs across riders as days go by adds uncertainty and interest to the race. That's unless it affects your pet rider.