Giro d'Italia 2017 rumours - Il Centesimo

[gregrowlerson]

Meh

Edit:
And WTF is this? Be ashamed whoever is responsible for this:

I really hope this is not true, if we dont get a Stelvio from prato for the 100th edition of the Giro im literally going to give up with this route.

I seriously don't get all the obsession with climbing Stelvio from Prato.
The only positive change these last days had, was the design of this stage TBH.
It is much more in favor of long-range attacks than the first alternative.
Stelvio from Prato is much more selective when raced as a descent than as a climb. Umbrail is much more selective when raced as a climb than as a descent. 2-0 in favor of the final profile. Case closed.

what is wrong with the stage again? three monster killer mountains amounting a huge vertical ascending while being laid on a lengthy 228 km span?

3 reasons.
-They still could have put more climbs before the Mortirolo and the stage wouldn't even become longer.
-They use the Mortirolo from its by far crappiest side.
-IMO they use Umbrail and Stelvio in the false order. I have to say though that this is only my opinion. There are also people who are happy that they use Stelvio first.

Quite hard to please most forum posters. If they got with the Miss Universe runner-up, they'd complain that they didn't make it with the winner

This is one of the best stages that I've ever seen.

QUEEN

 

[observer]

Very happy to see Blockhaus.

 

[jens_attacks]

Re:

Maybe there's a reason for the crappy mountain stages (a few of them are too short and don't feature any real climbs before the final climb) and the 2 mid length ITTs, you could see it as a tribute to the Moser/Saronni years and the many bad routes that they had in the 80ies.

This is the opposite of a moser/saronni giro though.

People complain but this is a super hard giro.

 

[LaFlorecita]

So the Mortirolo isn't the Contador side? I can't tell from the profile.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Re:

So the Mortirolo isn't the Contador side? I can't tell from the profile.

Nah, it's from the easiest side.

 

[Tigerion]

Re:

I dislike the route more and more, just take a look at the map this Giro: way too many (long) transfers and most important: not all of Italy's regions are visited, not even near...

Wouldn't you need more and longer tranfers if you were to visit all the regions?

 

[SafeBet]

Re: Re:

He said there will be only "classic climbs", emphasising that Zoncolan won't be there. (Spanish is my mothertongue)

Ok sorry I misunderstood.

]Etna looks to be relatively easy, going by the official profile. Somewhat harder than La Toussuire.

A 17km climb at 7% in the 4th day of a GT is relatively easy?
Compared to what?

 

[Le Blaireau_13]

Re: Re:

I dislike the route more and more, just take a look at the map this Giro: way too many (long) transfers and most important: not all of Italy's regions are visited, not even near...

Wouldn't you need more and longer tranfers if you were to visit all the regions?

Good point and it certainly seems counter intuitive, but I think it's really possible (I created a 100th Giro which visites all of Italy's regions myself) without having many long transfers. Now, the Giro stays two days on Sicily, whereas I think one could be enough.

I mean, Italy has 20 regions: it certainly has to be possible to visit all regions with a start or finish in 21 race days.

 

[Eshnar]

When you finish a stage in Canazei and the following stage finishes in Ortisei, it's pretty clear that touching all regions was never in the agenda.

 

[RedheadDane]

Just how far is it from Sardinia to mainland Italy? Considering they're getting an extra "rest" day for the move...

Oh... missed the part about it being from Sardinia to Sicily...

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Re: Re:

A 17km climb at 7% in the 4th day of a GT is relatively easy?
Compared to what?

Compared to proper HC climbs, it is. The length and the average percentage aren't the issues here, but that it seemingly doesn't have any steep sections doesn't make big gaps - between Nibali and Aru, at least - likely. Drafting will be a major issue, especially when assuming that both their teams will be very strong, and why wouldn't they?

Yes, it's on the 4th day, so riders can't show up under prepared, which is great, but that's really the only thing. It makes for a nice finale early on, but let's not overhype it to high heavens.

 

[staubsauger]

The last the Giro had a proper mtf that early in the race was back in 2004 when Simoni aced out Cunego. So I don't get why people here complain about Etna being soft!?

Overall I have to admit I begin to like this route. Of course we've got some better rumors instantly (Drei Zinnen, Fedaia, Gavia, etc.). But for a Nibali versus Aru versus Kruijswijk battle it looks like an ideal route. It especially favors the Dutchman on paper. Eventually it calls out the strengths and weaknesses of all 3 very good.

The Stilfser Joch stage could've been better. But it looks decisive enough for the outcome of the fight for pink now already. So probably they wanted to avoid the stage being to hard and decisive. Eventually it's sad that the Gavia pass ain't passable. But Stilfser Joch twice is a great comprehension. Hopefully Kruijswijk's got this stage marked already!

Add Landa, Lopez and hopefully either Bardet or Pinot to the race and we certainly gonna have a big jamboree for the anniversary!

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

The last the Giro had a proper mtf that early in the race was back in 2004 when Simoni aced out Cunego. So I don't get why people here complain about Etna being soft!?

Overall I have to admit I begin to like this route. Of course we've got some better rumors instantly (Drei Zinnen, Fedaia, Gavia, etc.). But for a Nibali versus Aru versus Kruijswijk battle it looks like an ideal route. It especially favors the Dutchman on paper. Eventually it calls out the strengths and weaknesses of all 3 very good.

The Stilfser Joch stage could've been better. But it looks decisive enough for the outcome of the fight for pink now already. So probably they wanted to avoid the stage being to hard and decisive. Eventually it's sad that the Gavia pass ain't passable. But Stilfser Joch twice is a great comprehension. Hopefully Kruijswijk's got this stage marked already!

Add Landa, Lopez and hopefully either Bardet or Pinot to the race and we certainly gonna have a big jamboree for the anniversary!

Marked as in don't become a snowplough or as in win?

 

[staubsauger]

Re: Re:

The last the Giro had a proper mtf that early in the race was back in 2004 when Simoni aced out Cunego. So I don't get why people here complain about Etna being soft!?

Overall I have to admit I begin to like this route. Of course we've got some better rumors instantly (Drei Zinnen, Fedaia, Gavia, etc.). But for a Nibali versus Aru versus Kruijswijk battle it looks like an ideal route. It especially favors the Dutchman on paper. Eventually it calls out the strengths and weaknesses of all 3 very good.

The Stilfser Joch stage could've been better. But it looks decisive enough for the outcome of the fight for pink now already. So probably they wanted to avoid the stage being to hard and decisive. Eventually it's sad that the Gavia pass ain't passable. But Stilfser Joch twice is a great comprehension. Hopefully Kruijswijk's got this stage marked already!

Add Landa, Lopez and hopefully either Bardet or Pinot to the race and we certainly gonna have a big jamboree for the anniversary!

Marked as in don't become a snowplough or as in win?

Well hopefully he plows his way to victory there this time around!

 

[Ataraxus]

Meh

Edit:
And WTF is this? Be ashamed whoever is responsible for this:

I really hope this is not true, if we dont get a Stelvio from prato for the 100th edition of the Giro im literally going to give up with this route.

I seriously don't get all the obsession with climbing Stelvio from Prato.
The only positive change these last days had, was the design of this stage TBH.
It is much more in favor of long-range attacks than the first alternative.
Stelvio from Prato is much more selective when raced as a descent than as a climb. Umbrail is much more selective when raced as a climb than as a descent. 2-0 in favor of the final profile. Case closed.

what is wrong with the stage again? three monster killer mountains amounting a huge vertical ascending while being laid on a lengthy 228 km span?

3 reasons.
-They still could have put more climbs before the Mortirolo and the stage wouldn't even become longer.
-They use the Mortirolo from its by far crappiest side.
-IMO they use Umbrail and Stelvio in the false order. I have to say though that this is only my opinion. There are also people who are happy that they use Stelvio first.

Quite hard to please most forum posters. If they got with the Miss Universe runner-up, they'd complain that they didn't make it with the winner

This is one of the best stages that I've ever seen.

QUEEN[/quote]

I, (speaking for myself and I guess many poster will agree with me), cannot be unsatisfied with this stage considering what race designers prioritize when designing GT stages these days (too little emphasis on the stage profiles which stimulate attacks from far away) .
But if we take under consideration the potential of the area there are many many ways to make this stage iconic.
1- Try starting the stage in Tirano or Breno instead of Rovetta and finish it in Solda (not Bormio) for instance.
In that case you can have Mortirolo, Stelvio(from Bormio), Stelvio (from Mustair (Umbrail included)) and Solda for less then 200km.

P.S. These little details usually transform your sentences from "This is one of the best stages that I've ever seen." into "This is the best stage that I've ever seen".

 

[ice&fire]

Forum posters will be complaining about Il Giro until they get something else to complain about (read, La Vuelta)

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

Forum posters will be complaining about Il Giro until they get something else to complain about (read, La Vuelta)

Vuelta has an open goal to get the best route of all GT's for 2017, but I fully expect them to go all Sergio Ramos on it and kick it into the 2nd ring.

Absolutely genius move from the ASO to do the TdF presentation first, so people will forget about their atrocity for a while.

 

[Red Rick]

Now that I think of it, I'd definitely prefer to put the Gavia before the Stelvio in stead of the Mortirolo. It's harder, higher and reduces flat before the Stelvio to a minimum.

 

[ice&fire]

Re: Re:

Forum posters will be complaining about Il Giro until they get something else to complain about (read, La Vuelta)

Vuelta has an open goal to get the best route of all GT's for 2017, but I fully expect them to go all Sergio Ramos on it and kick it into the 2nd ring.

Absolutely genius move from the ASO to do the TdF presentation first, so people will forget about their atrocity for a while.

You are mixing goals and chances

 

[Squire]

Re: Re:

A 17km climb at 7% in the 4th day of a GT is relatively easy?
Compared to what?

Compared to proper HC climbs, it is. The length and the average percentage aren't the issues here, but that it seemingly doesn't have any steep sections doesn't make big gaps - between Nibali and Aru, at least - likely. Drafting will be a major issue, especially when assuming that both their teams will be very strong, and why wouldn't they?

Yes, it's on the 4th day, so riders can't show up under prepared, which is great, but that's really the only thing. It makes for a nice finale early on, but let's not overhype it to high heavens.

Maybe I should take this discussion to the Bahrain thread, but I'm quite underwhelmed by Nibali's team. Agnoli, Boaro & Javier Moreno are all right, and Siutsou & Visconti are pretty good, but they are no Kangert, Scarponi or Fuglsang.

 

[infeXio]

Re: Re:

A 17km climb at 7% in the 4th day of a GT is relatively easy?
Compared to what?

Compared to proper HC climbs, it is. The length and the average percentage aren't the issues here, but that it seemingly doesn't have any steep sections doesn't make big gaps - between Nibali and Aru, at least - likely. Drafting will be a major issue, especially when assuming that both their teams will be very strong, and why wouldn't they?

Yes, it's on the 4th day, so riders can't show up under prepared, which is great, but that's really the only thing. It makes for a nice finale early on, but let's not overhype it to high heavens.

Maybe I should take this discussion to the Bahrain thread, but I'm quite underwhelmed by Nibali's team. Agnoli, Boaro & Javier Moreno are all right, and Siutsou & Visconti are pretty good, but they are no Kangert, Scarponi or Fuglsang.

Izagirre is quite capable as well

 

[staubsauger]

Kruijswijk's team ain't stronger and Aru first of all needs to be stronger than his super-domestique anyway.

If AG2R fields a strong team around Bardet though, it's another situation to match with!

 

[May0maniac]

Yes, AG2R would have more than enough strong riders to send a strong team to the Giro and to the Tour. Bardet already said that he wants to do the double, but with a Tour route that really suits him (more than the Giro route) things could change.

 

[Squire]

Re: Re:

A 17km climb at 7% in the 4th day of a GT is relatively easy?
Compared to what?

Compared to proper HC climbs, it is. The length and the average percentage aren't the issues here, but that it seemingly doesn't have any steep sections doesn't make big gaps - between Nibali and Aru, at least - likely. Drafting will be a major issue, especially when assuming that both their teams will be very strong, and why wouldn't they?

Yes, it's on the 4th day, so riders can't show up under prepared, which is great, but that's really the only thing. It makes for a nice finale early on, but let's not overhype it to high heavens.

Maybe I should take this discussion to the Bahrain thread, but I'm quite underwhelmed by Nibali's team. Agnoli, Boaro & Javier Moreno are all right, and Siutsou & Visconti are pretty good, but they are no Kangert, Scarponi or Fuglsang.

Izagirre is quite capable as well

I just assumed Izagirre wouldn't break his Movistar contract just to be Nibali's slave. Of course I might be underestimating the influence of oil money, but it would surprise me, after the season he's had.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Izagirre riding the Giro would indeed be a huge surprise. I highly doubt he will ride that - he will have his eyes on one week stage races and probably also TdF considering Bahrain doesn't have any leader for that race.