Giro Stage 10 Civitanova Marche - Forli 200km

[pastronef]

https://twitter.com/grahamwatson10/status/600693059798589440

 

[veji11]

Re: Re:

Of more importance to whom? The sprinter teams simply do not factor in Porte's race to what they are doing. To do so would be foolish, and really quite pointless.

I don't like seeing GC riders lose time to injury or mechanicals either. But that is part of bike racing. The randomness, the painful chances lost. It is part of the drama and the tradition. It's part of what makes the sport great.

There is way, way too much expectation of predictability in stage racing since the advent of the Blue Train and subsequent teams who expend massive effort to control stage racing.

Celebrate the random and the painful. It is what cycling is about.

Indeed, part of road cycling's dramaturgie is how unfair it can be. Why o why did Fignon have a sore in his buttocks for that last ITT in 89 ? Why o why did Zulle get stuck at the passage du Goix in 99 losing the exact time difference Armstrong would have on him a the end of the tour ? Why did Contador or Froome fall in last year's tour de France ? Why did Sebastien Heulot have horrible knee tendinitis with the yellow jersey on in 96 forcing him to abandon the tour with the yellow jersey (oh the infamy) because he just couldn't ride anymore after agonising hours in front of the voiture balai ?

This is part of what makes road cycling what it is, a beautiful if often cruel sport.

 

[gunara]

It is, what did those teams had to gain that was of more importance than Porte losing time today? A 5th place? In any case, that placement was there to be contested once they reached the line.

Do you think "more" or "less" importance can really be compared here? Isn't it only in viewers' assumption that a 5th place importance to several teams/riders is less importance than possible GT contention to one rider? And I think it's only natural sprinters' team try to establish a pace from a comfortable speed/distance than to wait until some irrelevant rider (to their interest) come back, if I don't misunderstand you.

 

[IamIronMan]

Re: Re:

This is where we fundamentally disagree. It's perfectly possible to wait for contenders in certain cases, such as today, and still not have the whole practice of it being an exaggeration. Sprinters' or GC team riding at the front, it produces and unfair outcome either way. I'll have to respect your position though.

Was Astana or Tinkoff pulling? No, so you lose the argument. Why the hell should any other team wait for stupid Ritchie Porte?

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Not sure WTF some of you are talking about. You really think the entire peloton should have given up chasing the break, which was mere seconds ahead, and instead, waited for Richie Porte, who a) was not in the leader's jersey, b) has never won a GT so he doesn't get the deference a GT winner may otherwise get?

Stop this BS. It's unfortunate that Porte got a flat, but it happens. It happened to Valverde and Evans at even more inopportune times.

 

[mrhender]

SKY themselves wanted to play two horses here...

They have Porte for the GC and Viviani for the sprints..

They sorround the latter with quality riders and position Porte elsewhere..

They do both things half way today because they did not contribute to the chase (to make things in the finish more smooth), nor did they provide full protection to Porte...

Of course it is bad luck -but to expect the peloton to perform a full stop with 5km to go and a minor break maybe just seconds away is ridiculous...

There is no chance in hell that "fair play" (or compassion) could have stopped the peloton..

There was no time to communicate or execute such orders...

 

[IamIronMan]

Re: Re:

It's quite telling how giddy the Contador fans are that he gained time via mechanical (again).

Not surprising when their hero is a cheat and a complete fraud.

Nice trolling

 

[HiroAntagonist]

I'm more interested in the possibility of a cooperative alliance between Porte and Uran to get back on the good foot...

 

[IamIronMan]

Re:

I'm more interested in the possibility of a cooperative alliance between Porte and Uran to get back on the good foot...

So I have to get my maths right...It's Contador and Aru vs Uran and Porte and all Australians?

 

[pastronef]

Clarke gave his front wheel to Porte

kudos Clarke!

https://www.twitter.com/richie_porte/status/600698305744625665

 

[PhiberAwptik]

Re: Re:

It's quite telling how giddy the Contador fans are that he gained time via mechanical (again).

Not surprising when their hero is a cheat and a complete fraud.

Nice Trolling

 

[JRanton]

Re:

Maybe blaming Porte and his team instead of the rest of the peloton and thier support staff might be more conducive. The timing of the mechanical was unfortunate, but it happens. Dry your tears sensitive souls ;-)

It's true that nobody else was to blame for Porte's time loss. Blaming the sprint teams in that situation is ridiculous really. Just an extremely badly timed puncture (I'm not sure you can get a worse time) and it seems Sky and Porte could have handled the situation better. It's worth pointing out that the radios often don't work very well once you get into towns and cities which could explain the confusion.

 

[HiroAntagonist]

Re: Re:

I'm more interested in the possibility of a cooperative alliance between Porte and Uran to get back on the good foot...

So I have to get my maths right...It's Contador and Aru vs Uran and Porte and all Australians?

If it makes you feel better to twist my statement, so be it. I meant exactly what I said. It would be mutually beneficial, at least until the TT.

 

[JRanton]

Re: Re:

It's quite telling how giddy the Contador fans are that he gained time via mechanical (again).

Not surprising when their hero is a cheat and a complete fraud.

Nice Trolling

But ultimately true. I could indulge in a little bit of amateur psychology about Contador fans but I won't.

 

[dirkprovin]

At that point of a stage with points still on offer, and the break still a vague hope of being caught; any rational thoughts of "waiting" for ANYONE'S mechanical are out the window. SKY should however be having a major "de-brief" on what went wrong with Porte's mechanical given that he was in the position of having to accept a wheel from Simon Clarke of OGE. Whilst that's a nice gesture ..... and SKY will owe OGE a reciprocal favour down the line .... why has this come to pass ?? Did Porte lose his cool and panic in accepting this wheel ?? Where were his team-mates ?? Where were the directions over the radio from the team car ??

 

[veji11]

Re: Re:

Maybe blaming Porte and his team instead of the rest of the peloton and thier support staff might be more conducive. The timing of the mechanical was unfortunate, but it happens. Dry your tears sensitive souls ;-)

It's true that nobody else was to blame for Porte's time loss. Blaming the sprint teams in that situation is ridiculous really. Just an extremely badly timed puncture (I'm not sure you can get a worse time) and it seems Sky and Porte could have handled the situation better. It's worth pointing out that the radios often don't work very well once you get into towns and cities which could explain the confusion.

But if he had a teammate with him at all time, he could just have given him his bike or wheel.. Sky blew it and so did Porte : stopping on the left side of the road is just plain stupid, the car is going to drive by without seeing you...

 

[carton]

Re: Re:

I'm one of the last persons in this forum whom you will see claiming GC riders to be the be all of the race. I think you misundertood me there or didn't read some of my previous posts. In no way would I be against teams pulling at the front here if it was to have a positive outcome for them, such as wining the stage. It's my perception that at that point teams knew the break was going to take it, or something very unordinary had to happen for them to be catched. It is, what did those teams had to gain that was of more importance than Porte losing time today? A 5th place? In any case, that placement was there to be contested once they reached the line.

Winning, say, 5 UCI ranking points for finishing 5th ain't nothing. Winning the Giro points for finishing 10th or 12th ain't nothing either. But, and here's the biggie, there was no guarantee the whole break was going to make it. Say someone attacks and everyone looks around (almost happened) and we're maybe talking about 2nd. Say that guy gets gassed and it's a stage at play. That makes their Giro. Again, all of these guys make way less than Richie Porte but need results (however paltry they may seem to you) all the same. Go ahead and ask Ben Jacques-Maynes if having an extra few bucks wouldn't be nice right about now. Plus, there's no guarantee it even matters to Sky, maybe Richie crashes out it the next stage. So you're asking the sprinters' teams to surrender their chance at a stage or a red jersey, in a split second in a middle of an action packed race, because it might eventually matter more to someone else. You seriously don't get why that's completely bonkers?

I think I'm a decent guy who cares more than most about fair play (I know, most of us think we're better than average, which logically can't be true). But maybe you're just a much better person. Maybe you're the guy in the pharmacy check-out line who desperately needs to buy corticoids because his kid might be having a devastating allergic reaction, but who'll let everyone pass first just in case they may need to save time more urgently, even if they end up buying breath mints. If so, congratulations, you're really a fantastically unselfish person. Truly, chapeau. Otherwise, it might not a a completely terrible idea to perhaps consider the possibility, however slim you adjudicate it to be, that you may be be making a somewhat hypocritical assertion.

 

[Publicus]

Re: Re:

It's quite telling how giddy the Contador fans are that he gained time via mechanical (again).

Not surprising when their hero is a cheat and a complete fraud.

Nice Trolling

But ultimately true. I could indulge in a little bit of amateur psychology about Contador fans but I won't.

It would probably say more about you than those you'd be attempting to analysis, so it's probably best you don't

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re: Re:

It's quite telling how giddy the Contador fans are that he gained time via mechanical (again).

Not surprising when their hero is a cheat and a complete fraud.

Nice Trolling

But ultimately true. I could indulge in a little bit of amateur psychology about Contador fans but I won't.

Would also be unwise of you. You are already sounding foolish enough, and surely a hypothetically and highly stereotypical depiction of people you don't even know IRL wouldn't help alter that fact.

 

[MotorRouleur]

I'd be surprised if the sprinters' teams even knew Porte was dropped. Why would it be a priority for them at that moment? Meant absolutely nothing to them; they weren't watching him, they were focused on what they were doing and turning around 60 kph of forward momentum somewhat unlikely.

Exactly.
- Porte's mishap occurred with 6km to go, not 5.
- Some Sky riders didn't immediately know what happened with Porte. Even race coverage and race radio didn't know.
- Whatever was initially communicated had a big question mark on it, and not enough for teams to acknowledge Porte had dropped.
- In the strung-out last kms, riders are often nowhere near their team-mates to communicate news, and some riders pull out their earpieces towards the end.
- The peloton was in full flight, with some deciding long ago to get up and through the tight corners, pave and bottleneck, to avoid the pile-ups we've seen recently.
- To those riders that were in communication, the big real news was that the breakaway was slowing.
- What was apparent to the top dozen (and probably radioed to others), is that there were guys launching off the front of the chase.

Had Porte's mishap happened at 25km to go, there ~maybe~ would be a discussion about the peleton slowing up. With 6000 metres left in a 200km race? Newbie.

 

[JRanton]

Re: Re:

Maybe blaming Porte and his team instead of the rest of the peloton and thier support staff might be more conducive. The timing of the mechanical was unfortunate, but it happens. Dry your tears sensitive souls ;-)

It's true that nobody else was to blame for Porte's time loss. Blaming the sprint teams in that situation is ridiculous really. Just an extremely badly timed puncture (I'm not sure you can get a worse time) and it seems Sky and Porte could have handled the situation better. It's worth pointing out that the radios often don't work very well once you get into towns and cities which could explain the confusion.

But if he had a teammate with him at all time, he could just have given him his bike or wheel.. Sky blew it and so did Porte : stopping on the left side of the road is just plain stupid, the car is going to drive by without seeing you...

Eisel would have been the one near him. So it's up to him to explain what happened. He was also the rider in front of Froome when he crashed in the Tour last year. Some road captain...

 

[Jagartrott]

Re: Re:

This is Saint-Amand-Monrond déjà vu, only Porte didn't ever do anything to deserve this, and sprinter's teams are to blame. I bet Contador doesn't find this right himself.

In what parallel universe are sprinters teams to blame? Some of them were desparately trying to catch the breakaway.

Edit: A lot of respect for the breakaway btw. Gato being very unlucky.

 

[pastronef]

https://twitter.com/philmaertens/status/600705404256055296

help from another team: 2 minutes

 

[Publicus]

https://twitter.com/philmaertens/status/600705404256055296

help from another team: 2 minutes

And there's photographic (and social media) proof that it occurred. I wonder what Cookson is going to do....

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

It's quite telling how giddy the Contador fans are that he gained time via mechanical (again).

Not surprising when their hero is a cheat and a complete fraud.

What a vile and bitter comment