Heras positive overturned

[Damiano Machiavelli]

Banned or not, Roberto was still a double world champion

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/399834/heras-crowned-world-champion.html

If AC/DC ever needs a new front man...

 

[slowspoke]

If AC/DC ever needs a new front man...

Its quite hard to dislike a man who can compete in this.....

 

[Midnightfright]

Does that mean that roberto heras should officially be congratulated on being the only 4 time winner of the vuelta.

 

[Franklin]

I said that?????

Actually... it could be argued that you said exactly that.

You argue Saiz downfall started with Heras, while actually it was Puerto. Now this implies you think Puerto started with Heras.

This is quite frankly wrong, but I'm sure you don't care about facts anyways. You play them loose as they are... if only to protect cheats.

Using facts in an argument is hard but it always shows

 

[brianf7]

And he can now sue WADA and its counterparts for $$Millions.

They realy got to get this right first time.

 

[brianf7]

Does that mean that roberto heras should officially be congratulated on being the only 4 time winner of the vuelta.

Yes regardless. he won it 4 times dont say how he won it.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

As a one-time big fan of Roberto I guess I'm happy about this. If only that I think he was unfairly blacklisted from the sport (and maybe set-up) when others were just as egregious of dopers as he.

But not for a second do I think he was clean, nowhere near it. And any victory he, or anyone else would like to claim from this would be very hollow. At best, the 2005 Vuelta should have no winner.

Still, he was a great rider to watch in his day.

 

[icefire]

Does that mean that roberto heras should officially be congratulated on being the only 4 time winner of the vuelta.

Not yet. As I said, the justice court has only said that it has a word in the case, so this is just the beginning. A new beginning, to be accurate.

 

[Señor_Contador]

I am for steroids. In fact I am on a cycle of testosterone and GH right now.

You see, how do you like it when people do it to you?

 

[Señor_Contador]

I am an idiot.

If you say so...

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

You see, how do you like it when people do it to you?

It does not bother me because it bears no relation to anything I have ever posted. It is not funny. It is not a cutting remark. It does not condense my views down to a biting remark. On the other hand, the quote attributed to you is a fine summary of the beliefs that you have demonstrated in this thread.

Lighten up, fool, and take your doping defense to a more suitable thread so that we can discuss Heras here.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Not surprising that the Spanish would make such a ruling. Not surprsing that even it's politicians back up their athletes even after positive tests and being implicated in doping scandals. Talk about being corrupt...

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Everyone needs to get back on topic. The back and forth gets pretty tiresome.

 

[Señor_Contador]

Actually... it could be argued that you said exactly that.

You argue Saiz downfall started with Heras, while actually it was Puerto. Now this implies you think Puerto started with Heras.

This is quite frankly wrong, but I'm sure you don't care about facts anyways. You play them loose as they are... if only to protect cheats.

Using facts in an argument is hard but it always shows

Again, I did not say that. Why is it so difficult to understand?

I am giving you the story as it is known in Spain, not in the anglophobe media.

I don't get why people are so fixated on the Manzano dossier. Yes, the guy was instrumental in talking to the police and letting them know how cyclists dope, where they could find the dope, and who was administering the dope, which eventually led to the OP (along with Heras' positive). But that was it. Jesús was quickly shunned from public life and now he isn't even invited to his own birthdays. This is the 10,000-foot view of the doping investigations in Spain.

Now, up until Heras tested positive, doping investigations in Spanish cycling were a mere series of unconnected random events of which the Manzano affair is only but a black dot (remember Angel Casero and his gumbahs begging for "más caramelos-more candies"? Or the Darío Frigo case?). It's only when Heras is "busted" that the world of doping practises (some of which the police already knew about), the doping networks and, most importantly, the athletes implicated comes to light.

The Spanish authorities needed a big fish to get the ball rolling, and Manzano, someone whose credibility was put into question by many individuals aside from Belda, was not going to do it. They needed a Vuelta contender, and, most importantly, someone who spoke Spanish. And in comes the set up positive of Roberto Heras. From this point on the police couldn't just ignore the problem, they had to make sure people got the idea they were looking into things, looking to put people in jail, et cetera.

Now, everyone kinda knows Heras told all. He is known as a snitch. That's why he can't get a contract anywhere, from anyone.

 

[Señor_Contador]

On the other hand, the quote attributed to you is a fine summary of the beliefs that you have demonstrated in this thread

That would be fine if I had said such a thing. I didn't. Do you now understand what is being said to you?

Lighten up, fool, and take your doping defense to a more suitable thread so that we can discuss Heras here.

Hey, it's imbeciles like you that took it off course, not me.

 

[Señor_Contador]

Not surprising that the Spanish would make such a ruling. Not surprsing that even it's politicians back up their athletes even after positive tests and being implicated in doping scandals. Talk about being corrupt...

Well, in the case of Heras he is a well-know snitch, so his positive being overturned was something he knew was going to happen as a thank you for having told everything to the police.

He is like the Snoop Doggy Dog of the cycling world. Suge Knight, the CEO of Death Row Records, used to say that in the streets the way to know if someone was a snitch is by looking at how much jail time he/she had done. If everyone in your possy was in jail except you, you were the snitch. And on, and on.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

As a one-time big fan of Roberto I guess I'm happy about this. If only that I think he was unfairly blacklisted from the sport (and maybe set-up) when others were just as egregious of dopers as he.

But not for a second do I think he was clean, nowhere near it. And any victory he, or anyone else would like to claim from this would be very hollow. At best, the 2005 Vuelta should have no winner.

Still, he was a great rider to watch in his day.

+3... agree with everything you wrote. I liked him too. Actually, can't think of a Spanish/Basque rider I don't like. I'd like to see him come back, prove himself clean from here on, and do well.

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

--conspiracy ravings excised--

The interesting tidbit in this Mad Hatter's tea party is that Heras is a "well known snitch," which would explain why he could not get a Pro Tour contract. The rest needs Oliver Stone and Kevin Costner to figure it out.

Not surprising that the Spanish would make such a ruling. Not surprsing that even it's politicians back up their athletes even after positive tests and being implicated in doping scandals. Talk about being corrupt...

That cannot be said until we know the details. I have always believed that the anti-doping system was run by clowns and it was a matter of time before they were challenged in a real court of law. They make up the rules as they go along. Once accused the athletes are at a huge and often insurmountable disadvantage. Heras may have legitimate complaints about how his case was handled.

 

[jae2460]

I'm glad I'm not Spanish. I would be embarassed. I have nothing against the people of Spain, I've never been there but heard it's beautiful and the people are wonderful. But a bit too soft when it comes to character, I'm afraid--at least in the sport of cycling.

 

[Franklin]

Again, I did not say that. Why is it so difficult to understand?

And then you contradict yourself again as you simply repeat the same fantasy again...

 

[Franklin]

At best, the 2005 Vuelta should have no winner.

Your implication is that: doping=no winner of a course.

That's a big decision considering doping is rife and we do not know who is innocent.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Again, I did not say that. Why is it so difficult to understand?

I am giving you the story as it is known in Spain, not in the anglophobe media.

I don't get why people are so fixated on the Manzano dossier. Yes, the guy was instrumental in talking to the police and letting them know how cyclists dope, where they could find the dope, and who was administering the dope, which eventually led to the OP (along with Heras' positive). But that was it. Jesús was quickly shunned from public life and now he isn't even invited to his own birthdays. This is the 10,000-foot view of the doping investigations in Spain.

Now, up until Heras tested positive, doping investigations in Spanish cycling were a mere series of unconnected random events of which the Manzano affair is only but a black dot (remember Angel Casero and his gumbahs begging for "más caramelos-more candies"? Or the Darío Frigo case?). It's only when Heras is "busted" that the world of doping practises (some of which the police already knew about), the doping networks and, most importantly, the athletes implicated comes to light.

The Spanish authorities needed a big fish to get the ball rolling, and Manzano, someone whose credibility was put into question by many individuals aside from Belda, was not going to do it. They needed a Vuelta contender, and, most importantly, someone who spoke Spanish. And in comes the set up positive of Roberto Heras. From this point on the police couldn't just ignore the problem, they had to make sure people got the idea they were looking into things, looking to put people in jail, et cetera.

Now, everyone kinda knows Heras told all. He is known as a snitch. That's why he can't get a contract anywhere, from anyone.

I like this post.

There are a lot of your's i don't like, but this gave me a better glimpse into the Spanish side of things and that's something I don't have. Thanks...

 

[Escarabajo]

It's not ridiculous to a cyclist who wants to regain his honor and integrity.

One of the few positives I suspect was a set up was that of Heras'. It's just too perfect: Guy knew what he was doing (working with Fuentes). The Spanish authorities had an ongoing investigation but were getting nowhere because cyclists were simply not talking. Lo' and Behold Heras tests positive at the Vuelta and the world of silence comes crumbling down. Manolo is busted with a suitcase full of bloodbags, et cetera.

It all has a point of origin. And that point of reference is Heras' positive.

I really think the guy is telling the truth, that he did not test positive (not that he didn't dope, mind you).

So, he was clean then? His fastastic TT was real?

Am I missing something?

If it was a set up he really helped this cause.

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

I LOLed at this comment on Velonews.

"...will Menchov be the first rider in Tour history to be stripped of his title because the rider ahead of him wasn’t doped?"

 

[Señor_Contador]

So, he was clean then? His fastastic TT was real?

Am I missing something?

If it was a set up he really helped this cause.

No, I do. I'm simply saying that that postive was a set up. He clearly doped. There's no doubt about that. But I believe that particular positive was cooked up.