Teams & Riders He's coming home!!!! Alejandro Valverde comeback thread.

[roundabout]

So what? That's kind of the reason why I did this...

Having a full-sized team for the Worlds and Olympics definitely helps get better results vs even complete countries that have less riders entered.

 

[roundabout]

Which is why I have made a list of podiums placings...

This answer makes no sense.

 

[tobydawq]

This answer makes no sense.

I made a list that clearly highlights getting podium placings (and it wasn't exactly a 5 minute-exercise), and all I'm hearing is how stupid he is for going after podium places. If he hadn't gotten so many, I wouldn't have made the list. I know full well that a few of the non-wins represent a missed opportunity, but it's not that many, really.

I was curious how many countries would beat him, and that's pretty much it.

I can also appreciate Cancellara's amazing run of 12 consecutive podiums in monuments that he finished, but I know that other people will claim that "2nd is the first loser" (and yes, I know that Cancellara rode more aggressively than Valverde).

 

[Koronin]

So, I did some counting. I counted the amount of podiums in big races all countries have gotten in the time from 2003 to 2021 in the 10 big races (GTs, Monuments, WCRR, Olympic Road Race). I have used results as obtained on the road apart from immediate disqualifications (PR 2006 and the train incident), so official results might disagree. Here is the list:

1: Italy - 91
2: Belgium - 63
3: Spain (excluding Valverde) - 58
4: Alejandro Valverde - 27
4: UK - 27
6: Australia - 26
7: The Netherlands - 24
8: Switzerland - 23
8: Germany - 23
10: France - 22
11: Colombia - 20
12: Slovenia - 14
13: Norway - 13
14: Luxembourg - 12
15: Denmark - 11
15: Russia - 11
15: USA - 11
18: Slovakia - 9
19: Kazakhstan - 8
19: Poland - 8
21: Ecuador, Portugal, Ireland - 4
24: Canada - 3
25: Czechia, Ukraine - 2
27: Lithuania, New Zealand, Sweden, Venezuela, Austria - 1

And yes, I know that you have to weigh victories differently to seconds and thirds in a sober discussion about greatness, but this is still absolutely nuts!

That is crazy.

 

[Blanco]

You can disagree, but to me that was symptomatic of the risk-reward preference that Valverde has which is one of the reasons for the podium record.

Reasons for Valverde podium record is that he's almost always there at the end of the biggest one-day races and is always in the contention in the GT's, and it's not that he lacks big wins comparing to other greats of the 21st century.
I could very well tell you that he would not win that Worlds and Lombardia you're talking about had he followed that moves.

 

[tobydawq]

This is the riders' list:

Alejandro	Valverde	27​
Fabian	Cancellara	17​
Vincenzo	Nibali	17​
Tom	Boonen	14​
Joaquim	Rodríguez	12​
Chris	Froome	11​
Philippe	Gilbert	11​
Alberto	Contador	9​
Julian	Alaphilippe	8​
Peter	Sagan	8​
Paolo	Bettini	7​
Alexander	Kristoff	7​
Tadej	Pogacar	7​
Samuel	Sánchez	7​
Rigoberto	Urán	7​
Greg	Van Avermaet	7​
Alessandro	Ballan	6​
Damiano	Cunego	6​
Cadel	Evans	6​
Nairo	Quintana	6​
Primoz	Roglic	6​
Andy	Schleck	6​
Niki	Terpstra	6​
Alexandre	Vinokourov	6​
Ivan	Basso	5​
Thor	Hushovd	5​
Michal	Kwiatkowski	5​
Fränk	Schleck	5​
Gilberto	Simoni	5​
Wout	Van Aert	5​
Lance	Armstrong	4​
Romain	Bardet	4​
Michael	Boogerd	4​
Richard	Carapaz	4​
Juan Antonio	Flecha	4​
Alexandr	Kolobnev	4​
Daniel	Martin	4​
Michael	Matthews	4​
Denis	Menchov	4​
Luca	Paolini	4​
Filippo	Pozzato	4​
Davide	Rebellin	4​
Carlos	Sastre	4​
Peter	Van Petegem	4​
Fabio	Aru	3​
Egan	Bernal	3​
Mark	Cavendish	3​
Esteban	Chaves	3​
Rui	Costa	3​
John	Degenkolb	3​
Danilo	Di Luca	3​
Tom	Dumoulin	3​
Óscar	Freire	3​
Jakob	Fuglsang	3​
Simon	Gerrans	3​
Roberto	Heras	3​
Leif	Hoste	3​
Rafal	Majka	3​
Stuart	O'Grady	3​
Alessandro	Petacchi	3​
Thibaut	Pinot	3​
Mathieu	Van der Poel	3​
Sep	Vanmarcke	3​
Erik	Zabel	3​
Kasper	Asgreen	2​
Matti	Breschel	2​
Allan	Davis	2​
Arnaud	Démare	2​
Stijn	Devolder	2​
Caleb	Ewan	2​
Matthew	Goss	2​
Heinrich	Haussler	2​
George	Hincapie	2​
Marc	Hirschi	2​
Andreas	Klöden	2​
Levi	Leipheimer	2​
Miguel Ángel	López	2​
Enric	Mas	2​
Nick	Nuyens	2​
Mads	Pedersen	2​
Riccardo	Riccò	2​
Jürgen	Roelandts	2​
Michele	Scarponi	2​
Zdenek	Stybar	2​
Ben	Swift	2​
Geraint	Thomas	2​
Jan	Ullrich	2​
Steffen	Wesemann	2​
Bradley	Wiggins	2​
Michael	Woods	2​
Simon	Yates	2​
Michael	Albasini	1​
David	Arroyo	1​
Igor	Astarloa	1​
Michele	Bartoli	1​
George	Bennett	1​
Alberto	Bettiol	1​
Edvald	Boasson Hagen	1​
Janez	Brajkovic	1​
Marzio	Bruseghin	1​
Dave	Bruylandts	1​
Magnus	Bäckstedt	1​
Hugh	Carthy	1​
Damiano	Caruso	1​
Mirko	Celestino	1​
Sylvain	Chavanel	1​
Gerald	Ciolek	1​
Juan José	Cobo	1​
Sonny	Colbrelli	1​
Thomas	De Gendt	1​
Silvan	Dillier	1​
Viatcheslav	Ekimov	1​
Davide	Formolo	1​
Óscar	Freire	1​
Dario	Frigo	1​
Stefano	Garzelli	1​
Enrico	Gasparotto	1​
David	Gaudu	1​
Tao	Geoghegan Hart	1​
Anthony	Geslin	1​
André	Greipel	1​
José Enrique	Gutiérrez	1​
Jack	Haig	1​
Tyler	Hamilton	1​
Roger	Hammond	1​
Mathew	Hayman	1​
Ryder	Hesjedal	1​
Jai	Hindley	1​
Tristan	Hoffman	1​
Serhiy	Honchar	1​
Danilo	Hondo	1​
Chris	Horner	1​
Maxim	Iglinskiy	1​
Bob	Jungels	1​
Andrey	Kashechkin	1​
Wilco	Kelderman	1​
Andreas	Klier	1​
Bernhard	Kohl	1​
Steven	Kruijswijk	1​
Stefan	Küng	1​
Yves	Lampaert	1​
Mikel	Landa	1​
Floyd	Landis	1​
Sebastian	Langeveld	1​
Pablo	Lastras	1​
Angelo	Lopeboselli	1​
Francisco	Mancebo	1​
Fausto	Masnada	1​
Iban	Mayo	1​
Eddy	Mazzoleni	1​
Axel	Merckx	1​
Bauke	Mollema	1​
Daniel	Moreno	1​
Gianni	Moscon	1​
Ezequiel	Mosquera	1​
Oliver	Naesen	1​
Ramunas	Navardauskas	1​
Isidro	Nozal	1​
Sérgio	Paulinho	1​
Franco	Pellizotti	1​
Jean-Christophe	Péraud	1​
Óscar	Pereiro	1​
Santiago	Pérez	1​
Dario	Pieri	1​
Wout	Poels	1​
Nils	Politt	1​
Yaroslav	Popovych	1​
Richie	Porte	1​
Diego	Rosa	1​
José	Rujano	1​
Paolo	Savoldelli	1​
Maximilian	Schachmann	1​
Stefan	Schumacher	1​
Ian	Stannard	1​
Jasper	Stuyven	1​
Dylan	Teuns	1​
Maarten	Tjallingii	1​
Matteo	Trentin	1​
Sébastien	Turgot	1​
Michael	Valgren	1​
Dylan	Van Baarle	1​
Frank	Vandenbroucke	1​
Johan	Vansummeren	1​
Peter	Velits	1​
Florian	Vermeersch	1​
Jonas	Vingegaard	1​
Aleksander	Vlasov	1​
Jens	Voigt	1​
Fabian	Wegmann	1​
Adam	Yates	1​
Ilnur	Zakarin	1​
Oliver	Zaugg	1​

 

[Blanco]

You definitelly get it wrong with Bettini. You listed him with 7 podiums, yet he had 8 wins only. I think the right number is 10.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Crazy how EBH has 1 when he was supposed to be Sagan before Sagan.

 

[tobydawq]

You definitelly get it wrong with Bettini. You listed him with 7 podiums, yet he had 8 wins only. I think the right number is 10.

It's still only in the period from 2003-2021, so the numbers don't make much sense for riders who were good before 2003.

 

[Red Rick]

List has Contador at 9 it is absolutely 100% indisputably perfect.

 

[Blanco]

It's still only in the period from 2003-2021, so the numbers don't make much sense for riders who were good before 2003.

Ah, ok then. Didn't know it was from 2003.

 

[tobydawq]

List has Contador at 9 it is absolutely 100% indisputably perfect.

I did say it was results obtained on the road.

 

[tobydawq]

Ah, ok then. Didn't know it was from 2003.

I think more countries beat Valverde if it's in the entirety of cycling history

 

[Blanco]

And how the hell any of the Tour winners, except Froome and Contador, can be in discussion who's the greater rider with the guy who has 27 podiums!?
(it's a theme from another thread, but I couldn't resist)

 

[roundabout]

Reasons for Valverde podium record is that he's almost always there at the end of the biggest one-day races and is always in the contention in the GT's, and it's not that he lacks big wins comparing to other greats of the 21st century.
I could very well tell you that he would not win that Worlds and Lombardia you're talking about had he followed that moves.

Well, he certainly did not win by doing what he did. And pretending that he did everything right in those finales like you seem to be doing looks like an attempt to rewrite history.

 

[roundabout]

I made a list that clearly highlights getting podium placings (and it wasn't exactly a 5 minute-exercise), and all I'm hearing is how stupid he is for going after podium places. If he hadn't gotten so many, I wouldn't have made the list. I know full well that a few of the non-wins represent a missed opportunity, but it's not that many, really.

I was curious how many countries would beat him, and that's pretty much it.

I can also appreciate Cancellara's amazing run of 12 consecutive podiums in monuments that he finished, but I know that other people will claim that "2nd is the first loser" (and yes, I know that Cancellara rode more aggressively than Valverde).

Great, Cancellara won 5 monuments during that time, but you only mentioned a podium run. Is there some sort of complex that you have regarding wins?

 

[tobydawq]

Great, Cancellara won 5 monuments during that time, but you only mentioned a podium run. Is there some sort of complex that you have regarding wins?

No, but 5 wins out of 12 races isn't a run. 12 consecutive races without being off the podium is off the charts (whether he won 0, 5 or 11 of those is not important for that point) and un-parallelled in modern cycling.

Is there some sort of complex that you have regarding podiums?

 

[Blanco]

Well, he certainly did not win by doing what he did. And pretending that he did everything right in those finales like you seem to be doing looks like an attempt to rewrite history.

No, I'm not pretending he did everything right, but you, and I for that matter, just don't know if he would get those wins had he did what you think he should.
At that Worlds, for example, Purito himself said that Valverde told him to attack 3-4 km's from the end because he was dead. His main mistake was that he fell asleep on Nibali's wheel, and didn't react to Costa in time. After was late, he couldn't close that gap, and eve if he somehow could, he wouldn't won that sprint.
At Lombardia, we have Gilbert who was forcing at Bergamo Alta and looked pretty strong with a teammate, and not just ordinary one, but Samu Sanchez, another strong rider. So we have Valverde, looking mainly at Gilbert cause he's the fastest beside him, plus with a teammate. Martin goes, Gilbert and Samu does nothing, Valverde looks for a couple of seconds to them, and BAM, the race is lost. He can close it maybe, but there's no way he will win a sprint after that.
Cycling finales are complicated, you must react in split second, and you can't always react right. Sometimes you win, sometimes don't. But Bala had his fair share of wins, he can't complain.

 

[joe_papp]

No, I'm not pretending he did everything right...

He did so well. What a career. Of course he could've done better under more favorable circumstances, but he could've also done worse!! I find it difficult to fault Valverde...amazing palmares, well-compensated, well-regarded by his peers, and resilience and longevity that seem unlikely to be matched in near-term.

 

[SHAD0W93]

It’s been well voiced before that if he tried to close gaps his sprint deteriorates. He is no way near Gerrans as a rider. Then a lot could be said to his mental as we saw Koronin has said he has struggled with the mental aspect.

 

[tobydawq]

It’s been well voiced before that if he tried to close gaps his sprint deteriorates. He is no way near Germans as a rider. Then a lot could be said to his mental as we law Koronin has said he has struggled with the mental aspect.

What? Who is Germans? And what do you mean by the last phrase?

 

[Netserk]

What? Who is Germans? And what do you mean by the last phrase?

Gerrans.

 

[SHAD0W93]

What? Who is Germans? And what do you mean by the last phrase?

Sorry, Autocorrect. Netserk is right, Gerrans. Then Koronin has brought up before that he has had mental struggles.

 

[tobydawq]

Gerrans.

Am I to understand that Shadow thinks that Gerrans was a far superior rider to Valverde or what is going on here?

 

[SHAD0W93]

Am I to understand that Shadow thinks that Gerrans was a far superior rider to Valverde or what is going on here?

No, that he didn’t exclusively bank on his sprint like Gerrans. He’s won solo or with attacking. Then everyone always brings him down for missing the movies but if he worked, it’s no guarantee he wins the sprint.