Teams & Riders He's coming home!!!! Alejandro Valverde comeback thread.

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

I'm well aware. It's BS.

He didn't skipped Ronde to ride this race, he skipped it because he wants to be fresh as possible for Ardennes. Also he doesn't want to do Ronde like some kind of adventurist, he wants good preparation and strong, well prepared team to help him. He has neither right now. He wouldn't do anything in that race right now, and he knows it, that's why he didn't want to race it. Simple as that.

He's not good enough to win the Ronde, he found that out in Dwars door Vlaanderen. Valverde doesn't like a challenge, he only goes for easy to control races.

Nibali also wants to win LBL, yet he's still going to ride the Ronde tomorrow.

It's unlikely Nibali is going to win LBL as you have 3 teams who most definitely WANT a sprint finish in that race. It's not just Movistar, but Quickstep and UAE also want the same type of finish and at least Movistar and Quickstep will have strong teams surrounding Valverde and Alaphilippe.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

If Alaphilippe and especially Dan Martin don't realize they're riding for second place in such a situation than they truly are braindead.

You must have missed Alaphilippe's comments during the off season. He said a couple of times that he truly hoped Valverde would fully recover and be as good as before so that he would have more shots at beating him in the Ardennes. He said he wants to win there, but that he also WANTS a fully healthy Valverde there when he does because otherwise it won't mean nearly as much. He said I want to beat Valverde because he's the best.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

[
Nibali also wants to win LBL, yet he's still going to ride the Ronde tomorrow.

It's unlikely Nibali is going to win LBL as you have 3 teams who most definitely WANT a sprint finish in that race. It's not just Movistar, but Quickstep and UAE also want the same type of finish and at least Movistar and Quickstep will have strong teams surrounding Valverde and Alaphilippe.

Again I think you missed El Pisti's point, in your defense he is sometimes a bit hard to follow.

Thanks. I think you're right.

As you may have noticed he doesn't really care and just continues the argument on a different track
Pisti, change your nickname to Lo Squalo

 

[Durden93]

Re: Re:

To put Valverde's performance in DDV in perspective:

1. Lampaert... 75 kg
2. Teunissen... 73
3. Vanmarcke... 77
4. Boasson-Hagen... 75
5. Pedersen... 70
6. Stybar... 71
7. Benoot... 72
8. Van Avermaet... 74
9. Terpstra... 75
10. Stuyven... 78
11. Valverde... 61

Bogus stats. Riders don't have static weight throughout the season anyway. Van Avermaet was better than Valverde on a mountainous Olympic course... And he didn't finish 11th, he WON.

Nibali won in Milan-San Remo by attacking on the Poggio (an easy climb, even compared to the Flemish hills) and he also weighs a lot less than your typical Milan-San Remo contender.

Hills are hills, cobbles don't make that big of a difference (Boonen said this by the way).

Sagan even won the Tour of California, which included a mountain stage. He also won that very hilly stage in the Tirreno-Adriatico in 2013 (where Froome lost the lead to Nibali).

An Olympic RR that was demanding that Valverde had just raced both the Giro and Tour for GC as well as a podium at San Sebastian and admitted that he wasn't in the right form for that race. No one else raced those three races all for GC/podiums and then the Olympic RR.

Valverde has the same shape in every single race he enters, stop looking for excuses.

You realize that’s a massive compliment to Valverde, right?

 

[Rollthedice]

Valverde is a curious case. He tends to start only in races where he has a good chance to podium or win. He loves podiums as much as the wins, he was crying when he finally got his third place in Le Tour and he was genuinely happy for Nibali when Vincenzo won the Giro in the last stage and he finished third. He is afraid of loosing that's why he rides conservatively in big races. He picks these small races mainly in Spain where he can win with one leg and only there he attacks from far against poor competition. He is stuck in his Ardennes routine because there he can't loose the podium and for the only other big race where he could get a podium, Lombardia, he is already spent by riding all these races in the year.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

[
Nibali also wants to win LBL, yet he's still going to ride the Ronde tomorrow.

It's unlikely Nibali is going to win LBL as you have 3 teams who most definitely WANT a sprint finish in that race. It's not just Movistar, but Quickstep and UAE also want the same type of finish and at least Movistar and Quickstep will have strong teams surrounding Valverde and Alaphilippe.

Again I think you missed El Pisti's point, in your defense he is sometimes a bit hard to follow.

Thanks. I think you're right.

As you may have noticed he doesn't really care and just continues the argument on a different track
Pisti, change your nickname to Lo Squalo

Yeah, I have started to realize that. I think maybe I just need to start ignoring him.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

To put Valverde's performance in DDV in perspective:

1. Lampaert... 75 kg
2. Teunissen... 73
3. Vanmarcke... 77
4. Boasson-Hagen... 75
5. Pedersen... 70
6. Stybar... 71
7. Benoot... 72
8. Van Avermaet... 74
9. Terpstra... 75
10. Stuyven... 78
11. Valverde... 61

Bogus stats. Riders don't have static weight throughout the season anyway. Van Avermaet was better than Valverde on a mountainous Olympic course... And he didn't finish 11th, he WON.

Nibali won in Milan-San Remo by attacking on the Poggio (an easy climb, even compared to the Flemish hills) and he also weighs a lot less than your typical Milan-San Remo contender.

Hills are hills, cobbles don't make that big of a difference (Boonen said this by the way).

Sagan even won the Tour of California, which included a mountain stage. He also won that very hilly stage in the Tirreno-Adriatico in 2013 (where Froome lost the lead to Nibali).

An Olympic RR that was demanding that Valverde had just raced both the Giro and Tour for GC as well as a podium at San Sebastian and admitted that he wasn't in the right form for that race. No one else raced those three races all for GC/podiums and then the Olympic RR.

Valverde has the same shape in every single race he enters, stop looking for excuses.

You realize that’s a massive compliment to Valverde, right?

It's very Cancellara-esque.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

He didn't skipped Ronde to ride this race, he skipped it because he wants to be fresh as possible for Ardennes. Also he doesn't want to do Ronde like some kind of adventurist, he wants good preparation and strong, well prepared team to help him. He has neither right now. He wouldn't do anything in that race right now, and he knows it, that's why he didn't want to race it. Simple as that.

He's not good enough to win the Ronde, he found that out in Dwars door Vlaanderen. Valverde doesn't like a challenge, he only goes for easy to control races.

Nibali also wants to win LBL, yet he's still going to ride the Ronde tomorrow.

It's unlikely Nibali is going to win LBL as you have 3 teams who most definitely WANT a sprint finish in that race. It's not just Movistar, but Quickstep and UAE also want the same type of finish and at least Movistar and Quickstep will have strong teams surrounding Valverde and Alaphilippe.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

If Alaphilippe and especially Dan Martin don't realize they're riding for second place in such a situation than they truly are braindead.

You must have missed Alaphilippe's comments during the off season. He said a couple of times that he truly hoped Valverde would fully recover and be as good as before so that he would have more shots at beating him in the Ardennes. He said he wants to win there, but that he also WANTS a fully healthy Valverde there when he does because otherwise it won't mean nearly as much. He said I want to beat Valverde because he's the best.

Not sure how that's relevant, there are more ways of beating an opponent than in a sprint.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

[
Nibali also wants to win LBL, yet he's still going to ride the Ronde tomorrow.

It's unlikely Nibali is going to win LBL as you have 3 teams who most definitely WANT a sprint finish in that race. It's not just Movistar, but Quickstep and UAE also want the same type of finish and at least Movistar and Quickstep will have strong teams surrounding Valverde and Alaphilippe.

Again I think you missed El Pisti's point, in your defense he is sometimes a bit hard to follow.

Thanks. I think you're right.

As you may have noticed he doesn't really care and just continues the argument on a different track
Pisti, change your nickname to Lo Squalo

No, this name is just fine. Berti made me love cycling in the first place. Nibs is just carrying his legacy.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

I'm well aware. It's BS.

He didn't skipped Ronde to ride this race, he skipped it because he wants to be fresh as possible for Ardennes. Also he doesn't want to do Ronde like some kind of adventurist, he wants good preparation and strong, well prepared team to help him. He has neither right now. He wouldn't do anything in that race right now, and he knows it, that's why he didn't want to race it. Simple as that.

He needs to race ronde if he wants something from it in the future. He can't just turn up and expect to win it first time, so needs to do it at least once as an 'adventurist'. In Dwars he was ok but nothing that suggests he could win Ronde. It's a terrible decision, and one since he isn't riding pais vasco won't impact his prep for the ardennes at all (unless he were to injure himself here - but even then, he's only missing out on two races he's won x times). It's a lack of imagination from bala to skip it again, and there's no good explanation for it.

 

[Koronin]

Re:

Valverde is a curious case. He tends to start only in races where he has a good chance to podium or win. He loves podiums as much as the wins, he was crying when he finally got his third place in Le Tour and he was genuinely happy for Nibali when Vincenzo won the Giro in the last stage and he finished third. He is afraid of loosing that's why he rides conservatively in big races. He picks these small races mainly in Spain where he can win with one leg and only there he attacks from far against poor competition. He is stuck in his Ardennes routine because there he can't loose the podium and for the only other big race where he could get a podium, Lombardia, he is already spent by riding all these races in the year.

To prove the point that he loves podiums as much as wins is that when he was asked if he would trade in his record 6 Worlds podiums for 1 rainbow jersey and gold. He responded without hesitation, No. He said, those 6 podiums show my consistency throughout my career and that means a lot to me, I would never even consider trading them for one rainbow jersey.

If I remember right in the 2015 Tour Contador made an off handed remark that there were other riders in the peloton whom would appreciate a Tour podium more than he would. It was in reference to something about win or nothing and the podium not meaning much to him but would to a few others. Although some people think he was specifically referring to Valverde without wanting to actually name anyone.

I agree that by the time we get to Lombardia and the World's he's pretty much spent.

With the Ardennes and spring, he's talked about his typical spring calendar and that he always races better when he's comfortable. Before last year he said something about going back to his regular typical spring calendar.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

He didn't skipped Ronde to ride this race, he skipped it because he wants to be fresh as possible for Ardennes. Also he doesn't want to do Ronde like some kind of adventurist, he wants good preparation and strong, well prepared team to help him. He has neither right now. He wouldn't do anything in that race right now, and he knows it, that's why he didn't want to race it. Simple as that.

He's not good enough to win the Ronde, he found that out in Dwars door Vlaanderen. Valverde doesn't like a challenge, he only goes for easy to control races.

Nibali also wants to win LBL, yet he's still going to ride the Ronde tomorrow.

It's unlikely Nibali is going to win LBL as you have 3 teams who most definitely WANT a sprint finish in that race. It's not just Movistar, but Quickstep and UAE also want the same type of finish and at least Movistar and Quickstep will have strong teams surrounding Valverde and Alaphilippe.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

If Alaphilippe and especially Dan Martin don't realize they're riding for second place in such a situation than they truly are braindead.

You must have missed Alaphilippe's comments during the off season. He said a couple of times that he truly hoped Valverde would fully recover and be as good as before so that he would have more shots at beating him in the Ardennes. He said he wants to win there, but that he also WANTS a fully healthy Valverde there when he does because otherwise it won't mean nearly as much. He said I want to beat Valverde because he's the best.

Not sure how that's relevant, there are more ways of beating an opponent than in a sprint.[/quote]

Well that's how Alaphilippe wants to win and beat Valverde.

 

[portugal11]

Re: Re:

No, this name is just fine. Berti made me love cycling in the first place. Nibs is just carrying his legacy.[/quote]
how old are you?

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

Well that's how Alaphilippe wants to win and beat Valverde.

Don't put words in his mouth.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

I'm well aware. It's BS.

He didn't skipped Ronde to ride this race, he skipped it because he wants to be fresh as possible for Ardennes. Also he doesn't want to do Ronde like some kind of adventurist, he wants good preparation and strong, well prepared team to help him. He has neither right now. He wouldn't do anything in that race right now, and he knows it, that's why he didn't want to race it. Simple as that.

He needs to race ronde if he wants something from it in the future. He can't just turn up and expect to win it first time, so needs to do it at least once as an 'adventurist'. In Dwars he was ok but nothing that suggests he could win Ronde. It's a terrible decision, and one since he isn't riding pais vasco won't impact his prep for the ardennes at all (unless he were to injure himself here - but even then, he's only missing out on two races he's won x times). It's a lack of imagination from bala to skip it again, and there's no good explanation for it.

But you're missing a key part here. He desperately wants that 5th LBL title. He really wants to tie Merckx at LBL and has talked about how he never thought that would be possible until after he won LBL last year for the 4th time. He'd thought that was an unattainable record and now that it's within his reach, he wants it. That's why he's talked about not doing anything that could risk the Ardennes.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

No, this name is just fine. Berti made me love cycling in the first place. Nibs is just carrying his legacy.

how old are you?[/quote]

26, I didn't care much for cycling until 2009.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

Well that's how Alaphilippe wants to win and beat Valverde.

Don't put words in his mouth.

Well keeps trying to beat Valverde in a sprint. (Then again he's also tried to beat Sagan in sprints.)

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

I'm well aware. It's BS.

He didn't skipped Ronde to ride this race, he skipped it because he wants to be fresh as possible for Ardennes. Also he doesn't want to do Ronde like some kind of adventurist, he wants good preparation and strong, well prepared team to help him. He has neither right now. He wouldn't do anything in that race right now, and he knows it, that's why he didn't want to race it. Simple as that.

He needs to race ronde if he wants something from it in the future. He can't just turn up and expect to win it first time, so needs to do it at least once as an 'adventurist'. In Dwars he was ok but nothing that suggests he could win Ronde. It's a terrible decision, and one since he isn't riding pais vasco won't impact his prep for the ardennes at all (unless he were to injure himself here - but even then, he's only missing out on two races he's won x times). It's a lack of imagination from bala to skip it again, and there's no good explanation for it.

But you're missing a key part here. He desperately wants that 5th LBL title. He really wants to tie Merckx at LBL and has talked about how he never thought that would be possible until after he won LBL last year for the 4th time. He'd thought that was an unattainable record and now that it's within his reach, he wants it. That's why he's talked about not doing anything that could risk the Ardennes.

Merckx won Milan-San Remo seven times, the Ronde van Vlaanderen twice, Paris-Roubaix three times, Liège-Bastogne-Liège five times and the Giro di Lombardia twice (actually three times, but he tested positive and was stripped of his third victory).

So what's Valverde's excuse again for only focusing on the Ardennes? You can't just select a tiny part of Merckx's palmares and claim you're his equal.

 

[Durden93]

Re: Re:

I'm well aware. It's BS.

He didn't skipped Ronde to ride this race, he skipped it because he wants to be fresh as possible for Ardennes. Also he doesn't want to do Ronde like some kind of adventurist, he wants good preparation and strong, well prepared team to help him. He has neither right now. He wouldn't do anything in that race right now, and he knows it, that's why he didn't want to race it. Simple as that.

He needs to race ronde if he wants something from it in the future. He can't just turn up and expect to win it first time, so needs to do it at least once as an 'adventurist'. In Dwars he was ok but nothing that suggests he could win Ronde. It's a terrible decision, and one since he isn't riding pais vasco won't impact his prep for the ardennes at all (unless he were to injure himself here - but even then, he's only missing out on two races he's won x times). It's a lack of imagination from bala to skip it again, and there's no good explanation for it.

But you're missing a key part here. He desperately wants that 5th LBL title. He really wants to tie Merckx at LBL and has talked about how he never thought that would be possible until after he won LBL last year for the 4th time. He'd thought that was an unattainable record and now that it's within his reach, he wants it. That's why he's talked about not doing anything that could risk the Ardennes.

Merckx won Milan-San Remo seven times, the Ronde van Vlaanderen twice, Paris-Roubaix three times, Liège-Bastogne-Liège five times and the Giro di Lombardia twice (actually three times, but he tested positive and was stripped of his third victory).

So what's Valverde's excuse again for only focusing on the Ardennes? You can't just select a tiny part of Merckx's palmares and claim you're his equal.

This is such a dumb argument. To criticize modern riders for not targetting multiple GTs/monuments each year is to ignore the realities of modern cycling/sports. There will never be another Merckx. Someone could match his talent but the peloton is far too specialized.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

I'm well aware. It's BS.

He didn't skipped Ronde to ride this race, he skipped it because he wants to be fresh as possible for Ardennes. Also he doesn't want to do Ronde like some kind of adventurist, he wants good preparation and strong, well prepared team to help him. He has neither right now. He wouldn't do anything in that race right now, and he knows it, that's why he didn't want to race it. Simple as that.

He needs to race ronde if he wants something from it in the future. He can't just turn up and expect to win it first time, so needs to do it at least once as an 'adventurist'. In Dwars he was ok but nothing that suggests he could win Ronde. It's a terrible decision, and one since he isn't riding pais vasco won't impact his prep for the ardennes at all (unless he were to injure himself here - but even then, he's only missing out on two races he's won x times). It's a lack of imagination from bala to skip it again, and there's no good explanation for it.

But you're missing a key part here. He desperately wants that 5th LBL title. He really wants to tie Merckx at LBL and has talked about how he never thought that would be possible until after he won LBL last year for the 4th time. He'd thought that was an unattainable record and now that it's within his reach, he wants it. That's why he's talked about not doing anything that could risk the Ardennes.

Merckx won Milan-San Remo seven times, the Ronde van Vlaanderen twice, Paris-Roubaix three times, Liège-Bastogne-Liège five times and the Giro di Lombardia twice (actually three times, but he tested positive and was stripped of his third victory).

So what's Valverde's excuse again for only focusing on the Ardennes? You can't just select a tiny part of Merckx's palmares and claim you're his equal.

He wants that specific record. He already has the record at Fleche Wallone, and of the Ardennes double together. He also wants the LBL record. He's not claiming to be equal to Merckx, he's talking about a specific record he didn't think was breakable before last year.

 

[El Pistolero]

If he wants to be like Merckx, he needs to ride all the classics. End of story.

His record will mean as much as Cavendish's record when / if he beats Merckx's record of most Tour stages.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re: Re:

Well that's how Alaphilippe wants to win and beat Valverde.

Don't put words in his mouth.

Well keeps trying to beat Valverde in a sprint. (Then again he's also tried to beat Sagan in sprints.)

Alaphilippe tried to win in different ways and didn't succeed once but there's time for that. As for LBL it will be between Bala and Lo Squalo, I have no doubt about that, with Valverde the favorite only because he has one weapon that's better, the sprint.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

This is such a dumb argument. To criticize modern riders for not targetting multiple GTs/monuments each year is to ignore the realities of modern cycling/sports. There will never be another Merckx. Someone could match his talent but the peloton is far too specialized.

Did you miss the fact that Nibali just won Milan-San Remo?

Or that Greg won on a mountainous Olympic course and was top ten in LBL?

Or that Nibali is now also riding the Ronde van Vlaanderen?

Or that Gilbert won the Ronde van Vlaanderen, the Amstel Gold Race, the Giro di Lombardia and all the ardennes classics?

Wake up!

If you never try you won't know what you're truly capable of.

 

[Tonton]

So "nuclear holocoust" (holocaust) was the right answer in the poll page 1...next he wins all three GTs and the RRWC .

 

[El Pistolero]

So "nuclear holocoust" (holocaust) was the right answer in the poll page 1...next he wins all three GTs and the RRWC .

The poll asked for 2012 specifically. He wasn't that great that year.

And yes, and he'll beat honest riders like Pinot while doing so.

 

[Nirvana]

If the team had allowed him to ride Giro and Vuelta like he said this winter he really could have won at least one GT this season, maybe even both, I don't think Dumoulin and Froome would be clear favourites over him in a Giro with only Finestre above 2.000 meters and an lot of hilly stage to grab time bonuses.