Teams & Riders He's coming home!!!! Alejandro Valverde comeback thread.

[Bye Bye Bicycle]

but tom.. damn.

for some reason i am still wondering why he does not have 3 or 4 MSR, 3 worlds, 5 to 6 ronde, 5 to 6 roubaix, 3 greens at le tour, 4 paris tours, etc etc.

That all went through the nose. After all, he destroyed most likely himself.

 

[The Hitch]

With Cancellara I think his problem is that lots of people think all his races are basically an extension of tting.

Which might be the reason he gets such animosity for attacks for which anyone else would recieve huge praise.

Brings back breakaway on flat - he's doing a flat tt.
Attacks from 40k on PR - hes doing a technical flat tt. Attacks from 40k on RVV hes doing a hilly tt.

Smashes peloton at Mendrisio worlds - hes doing a hilly tt.

Attacks Boonen Flecha at E3, peloton at TDF 3 2007, hes doing a prologue.

But yes, being able to excell in mountain worlds, flat tts, hilly tts, cobbled horros, and recently in sprints are a sign of great talent.

 

[Angliru]

And 3 San Remo's
Too bad he's riding for Katusha though, I hate them.

You know what would be funny? Oscar Freire becoming WC this year at Valkenburg, he has some history there I wonder why he got so obsessed with the Cauberg lol.

Bala Verde is a hard worker as well though, now I found 2 things where I respect him in. His wheelsucking tendencies in classics still **** me off though.

I don't think I've ever seen someone return at such a good level after a ban. Perhaps I should wait till Willunga hill before judging his form though.

Valverde being, when he was at his best, head and shoulders above all the other Ardennes classic contenders when it comes to uphill sprints, it is the responsibility of all the others to rid themselves of him before they reach the final stretch to the finish. Certainly he could launch a devastating attack ala Bettini for the sheer theatrics of it, but the risk of being reeled in and potentially losing that snap of acceleration at the end that puts him above
his opposition isn't worth the risk. The ultimate goal is to win and for me there isn't too many things more beautiful to see than Valverde closing out a race with his awesome sprint.

 

[Walkman]

Out of a hundred Evans gets about +3 in mountains, + 6 in tts, and level in descents. Meanwhile Valverde gets like + 3 in hills and about + 20 in sprinting.

Also hes the only rider who is better than Evans and Contador at having a peak all the way through the season.

Significantly better even.

The guys ****ing going for the Tour down under, a season warm up race.

By July he usually has twice as many serious racing days as any other GT contender and thats before his season really kicks off with his 2 big races and then worlds.

And people mock him for failing in some races lol.

It would be like criticizing Mozart for not playing the triangle.

That's old news Hitch. Let's see how he does this year before making any more claims.

 

[Angliru]

Come on... You only have to use the 3MSR when you want to humillate someone
about the cauberg... Maybe He knows that He can take it and feels it that way but as He always blows it He wants to keep trying and trying until He gets it

For Freire to be a sprinter that is capable of also finishing in the top ten at Amstel Gold is amazing to me and a testament to his greatness. What other current rider has the range of talents that he has displayed over the course of his career? Freire is like a big game hunter. He can be having a completely
sh!tty season and suddenly pull a monument victory out of his hat.

As was mentioned if Contador was to focus on the Ardennes as he did somewhat in his 2nd year with Astana where he finished on the podium of Fleche Wallone and was instrumental in helping Vino win LBL, I'm fairly certain he would add one or more of these events to palmares.

 

[El Pistolero]

Valverde being, when he was at his best, head and shoulders above all the other Ardennes classic contenders when it comes to uphill sprints, it is the responsibility of all the others to rid themselves of him before they reach the final stretch to the finish. Certainly he could launch a devastating attack ala Bettini for the sheer theatrics of it, but the risk of being reeled in and potentially losing that snap of acceleration at the end that puts him above
his opposition isn't worth the risk. The ultimate goal is to win and for me there isn't too many things more beautiful to see than Valverde closing out a race with his awesome sprint.

I don't care about all that, Gilbert could have waited for the sprint in many races he started(like Lombardia in 2009 and 2010, Omloop het Volk, AGR in 2010 and 2011), but attacked just to have some fun. Same goes for Contador. The ultimate goal is to humiliate your opponents, demoralise them, inspire fear in them to make sure your opponents start the next race with no hope of victory. It's why VDB's attack on La Redoute is still being talked about and why Valverde's LBL wins will be forgotten in history. Attacking in a race despite being the fastest sprinter of the group earns my respect.

"Let them hate me, as long as they fear me" - Caligula

 

[Nick C.]

I don't care about all that, Gilbert could have waited for the sprint in many races he started(like Lombardia in 2009 and 2010, Omloop het Volk, AGR in 2010 and 2011), but attacked just to have some fun. Same goes for Contador. The ultimate goal is to humiliate your opponents, demoralise them, inspire fear in them to make sure your opponents start the next race with no hope of victory. It's why VDB's attack on La Redoute is still being talked about and why Valverde's LBL wins will be forgotten in history. Attacking in a race despite being the fastest sprinter of the group earns my respect.

"Let them hate me, as long as they fear me" - Caligula

But Gilbert is not an odds on winner or even favorite of a small group flat sprint. (though he did beat Samu at Lombardia in a 2 man sprint IIRC and I know about Paris Tour with Boonen and Bozic).

 

[El Pistolero]

But Gilbert is not an odds on winner or even favorite of a small group flat sprint. (though he did beat Samu at Lombardia in a 2 man sprint IIRC and I know about Paris Tour with Boonen and Bozic).

He was odds on favorite to win the sprints in all races I mentioned.

 

[Angliru]

I don't care about all that, Gilbert could have waited for the sprint in many races he started(like Lombardia in 2009 and 2010, Omloop het Volk, AGR in 2010 and 2011), but attacked just to have some fun. Same goes for Contador. The ultimate goal is to humiliate your opponents, demoralise them, inspire fear in them to make sure your opponents start the next race with no hope of victory. It's why VDB's attack on La Redoute is still being talked about and why Valverde's LBL wins will be forgotten in history. Attacking in a race despite being the fastest sprinter of the group earns my respect.

"Let them hate me, as long as they fear me" - Caligula

You seem to be confusing what is your own personal entertainment with what is the ultimate goal of a team's protected rider at any one day race. That is to win not to necessarily "humiliate" and "demoralize" one's opponents.

 

[El Pistolero]

You seem to be confusing what is your own personal entertainment with what is the ultimate goal of a team's protected rider at any one day race. That is to win not to necessarily "humiliate" and "demoralize" one's opponents.

You seem to confuse my respect of a rider with team tactics. Not the other way around. It's much easier to win a race against sheep than it is to win a race against lions by the way. Mental warfare is a team tactic as well, a damn good one.

Besides, the ultimate goal, as you describe it, is not just to win. That's a goal, not the ultimate goal. The ultimate goal is to blow everyone away. How do you rather win? Solo or in a sprint? How do you rather win? With one guy on the podium or with 3 guys on the podium(Mapei)? That's ultimate.

 

[jens_attacks]

as biggest talents for grand tours of the last decade i'd say:
contador freak of nature
andy schleck his recovery times are pretty much at contador's level.giro 2007 ftw!otherwise a spoiled brat talking lots of shiit
riccardo ricco,i've read some time ago that he was blessed by nature with a 52 hematocrit,same as contador's.medical assistance is not the only reason for beating paolo bettini in your first big boy race no doubt.but yeah probably the biggest pricc to ever ride a bicycle,still love him.
valverde and cunego,more for the classics.the recovery process is not so good.
rujano.but he's weird and can't live like a pro.
iban mayo,the fastest climber after pantani.unfortunately another motivation,mental related problem with him too

i don't know if i forgot someone,the colombians look good in the labs and tests but they still have a lot to do to impress like the guys above.

 

[Froome19]

I don't care about all that, Gilbert could have waited for the sprint in many races he started(like Lombardia in 2009 and 2010, Omloop het Volk, AGR in 2010 and 2011), but attacked just to have some fun. Same goes for Contador. The ultimate goal is to humiliate your opponents, demoralise them, inspire fear in them to make sure your opponents start the next race with no hope of victory. It's why VDB's attack on La Redoute is still being talked about and why Valverde's LBL wins will be forgotten in history. Attacking in a race despite being the fastest sprinter of the group earns my respect.

"Let them hate me, as long as they fear me" - Caligula

It is? thats news to me
why would that be anyone's ultimate goal? of course a rider would like to prove himself the strongest but first and foremost is winning and anything else like proving yourself is subsidary

 

[El Pistolero]

as biggest talents for grand tours of the last decade i'd say:
contador freak of nature
andy schleck his recovery times are pretty much at contador's level.giro 2007 ftw!otherwise a spoiled brat talking lots of shiit
riccardo ricco,i've read some time ago that he was blessed by nature with a 52 hematocrit,same as contador's.medical assistance is not the only reason for beating paolo bettini in your first big boy race no doubt.but yeah probably the biggest pricc to ever ride a bicycle,still love him.
valverde and cunego,more for the classics.the recovery process is not so good.
rujano.but he's weird and can't live like a pro.
iban mayo,the fastest climber after pantani.unfortunately another motivation,mental related problem with him too

i don't know if i forgot someone,the colombians look good in the labs and tests but they still have a lot to do to impress like the guys above.

Tom Boonen: podium at his first Paris-Roubaix at age 22.

 

[El Pistolero]

It is? thats news to me
why would that be anyone's ultimate goal? of course a rider would like to prove himself the strongest but first and foremost is winning and anything else like proving yourself is subsidary

It's easier to win future races if you break the spirit of your competition. Armstrong did it all these years in the Tour.

If you give the rider a choice to win from a sprint or win solo most of them will chose the latter. How can "just win" be the "ultimate" goal then?

 

[The Hitch]

"Let them hate me, as long as they fear me" - Caligula

High quality stuff for those of you still living in the 1st century, maybe, but in todays zeitgeist its the kind of stuff you hear from sociopaths.

People like Stalin, John Gotti or Jose Morinho view the world this way. The ordinary folk of this world try to earn the respect of people, not scare them.

 

[Froome19]

It's easier to win future races if you broke the spirit of your competition. Armstrong did it all these years in the Tour.

Yes it is but first and foremost you must win the current race youre racing however you think best

 

[jens_attacks]

Tom Boonen: podium at his first Paris-Roubaix at age 22.

i know i know but i was talking just about the grand tour talents.

 

[El Pistolero]

Yes it is but first and foremost you must win the current race youre racing however you think best

It's the goal that is on most people's mind, that's for sure, but it's not the "ultimate" goal, now is it? I cannot think anything higher than achieving the ultimate goal yet I can think of bigger achievements then just win a race. How would you like to win? Like Andy on the Galibier or like Rolland on Alpe?

 

[El Pistolero]

High quality stuff for those of you still living in the 1st century, maybe, but in todays zeitgeist its the kind of stuff you hear from sociopaths.

People like Stalin, John Gotti or Jose Morinho view the world this way. The ordinary folk of this world try to earn the respect of people, not scare them.

It's actually a quote by an unknown playwrighter and not a sociopath. Said sociopath(not that we can trust ancient sources about stuff like this) is said to have used this particular quote a lot. I doubt Caligula was a sociopath by the way. Ancient writers are liars.

Respect(or honor) is a term with an everchanging definition over time and space. In a lot of mediterranean countries you can still earn honor and respect by using violence. So the ordinary folk of this world, you mean just Western Europe? Ok.

 

[luckyboy]

It's why VDB's attack on La Redoute is still being talked about and why Valverde's LBL wins will be forgotten in history.

Now that you mention that I can't picture either of his wins. I mean obviously they were sprints, but I can't remember them.

 

[The Hitch]

You seem to confuse my respect of a rider with team tactics.

And you seem to confuse cycling with the Ancient military warfare course you are doing at uni.

Not the other way around. It's much easier to win a race against sheep than it is to win a race against lions by the way. Mental warfare is a team tactic as well, a damn good one.

lol this is hilarious, and i mean that in a good way too. I of course love the biblical comparisons of cyclists to lions and warriors etc. And you make some good posts with your history knowledge you do, and please continue.

But the fault with your argument is that this isnt war where its total victory or total defeat. In war you can sacrifice a battle, or an advantage in an attempt for a greater victory.

But how does that work with Valverde. You suggest he sacrifice his LBL, for what?

To maybe have a slightly better chance of winning an LBL a year later.

No its better to win the LBL you have a very good chance in than to make a wild attempt at humiliating others in order to crush them mentaly and somehow end their careers.

 

[jens_attacks]

Now that you mention that I can't picture either of his wins. I mean obviously they were sprints, but I can't remember them.

true.same as rebellin's.but hey a win is a win especially liege lol

 

[The Hitch]

Respect(or honor) is a term with an everchanging definition over time and space. In a lot of mediterranean countries you can still earn honor and respect by using violence. So the ordinary folk of this world, you mean just Western Europe? Ok.

Exactly which mediterranean countries?

 

[El Pistolero]

And you seem to confuse cycling with the Ancient military warfare course you are doing at uni.



lol this is hilarious, and i mean that in a good way too. I of course love the biblical comparisons of cyclists to lions and warriors etc. And you make some good posts with your history knowledge you do, and please continue.

But the fault with your argument is that this isnt war where its total victory or total defeat. In war you can sacrifice a battle, or an advantage in an attempt for a greater victory.

But how does that work with Valverde. You suggest he sacrifice his LBL, for what?

To maybe have a slightly better chance of winning an LBL a year later.

No its better to win the LBL you have a very good chance in than to make a wild attempt at humiliating others in order to crush them mentaly and somehow end their careers.

It's not a biblical comparison(it's a reference to a certain military leader however)!

You are getting me wrong. I respect cyclists who go all out in a race despite being the fastest. Like Bettini and his crazy suicidal attacks in some races. It might not have been the smartest thing to do if you want to just win a race, but it sure as hell earns my respect a lot more! I can understand why Valverde wheelsucks in classics, but I do not have to respect it. To become really famous many years after your retirement 'just winning' won't have been enough to be remembered for years to come. How you win is also important for your legacy.

 

[The Hitch]

It's not a biblical comparison(it's a reference to a certain military leader however)!

You are getting me wrong. I respect cyclists who go all out in a race despite being the fastest. Like Bettini and his crazy suicidal attacks. It might not have been the smartest thing to do if you want to just win a race, but it sure as hell earns my respect a lot more!

Respect of El Pistolero.

Fame fortune and babes.

mmmm.

Tough one

To become really famous many years after your retirement 'just winning' won't have been enough to be remembered for years to come. How you win is also important for your legacy.

To be honest, I have no idea how Alfredo Binda won his races. All I know about Hugo Koblet is that other than the cq game he was the first non Italian to win Il Giro.

I hear Coppi attacked 8k from the end on Alpe but dont know how he won all the other monuments and gts. I hear Anquetil was good in tts and Poulidor did attack, I think but what do I know.

etc etc etc.

No you dont need to attack to be remembered. Im pretty sure Cav will be very well remembered despite the fact that he has never attacked in his life.

Though yes winning by attack is better remembered by some.