How dodgy is San Millán

[sniper]

How dodgy is San Millán

In the "JV talks, sort of" thread, we've been discussing the degree of dodgyness of Garmin's former (2010) doctor Inigo San Millán, who joined Garmin in January 2010, replacing Allen Lim, but left Garmin presumably towards the end of the same year.

Update on our friend Inigo San Millan:
http://nyvelocity.com/content/coachingfitness/2005/coaching-profile-iñigo-san-millán

So, Vitalicio, ONCE, Vini Caldirola, Saunier Duval, Astana, Garmin?
Is that the sequence?

Well JV, can you find a dodgier doc than that? Why not just hire Pepe Marti.
(...)

The discussion was then briefly taken to the Kimmage-interview thread, where it developed as follows:

Garmin are allegedly involved with a doctor called Dr San Millan who has a dodgy CV.

Not this again.
There is no allegedly, Garmin are indeed involved with San Millan, however there is nothing dodgy at all about the guy.

So, to arbitrate and settle this matter:
Do you think San Millán is dodgy?
(and if so, how friggin dodgy?)

To help you make your decision, here's more background info on the guy:

His former teams and some of the riders he proudly worked with are listed below:

“His cycling experience includes work with 6 professional cycling teams, 1 Tour de France winner and 16 Grand Tour (Tour de France, Giro d’Italia, and Vuelta a España) podium finishers, including teams such as Vitalicio Seguros, ONCE, Saunier Duval, and Astana. He has worked with riders such as Joseba Beloki, Abraham Olano, Chris Horner, Fred Rodriguez, Jorge Jackshe, Leonardo Piepoli, David Millar, and Alexander Vinokourov.”

http://cafescicolorado.org/SanMillan.htm

In addition, he worked with e.g. Kashechskin at Astana, shortly before he got caugh, though to be fair San Millán had just left Astana when our Kazachan friend got busted.

Here's a long interview with San Millán in 2009 on doping in cycling, Bernard Kohl, blood passport, etc. (i.e. from before he joined Garmin):
http://www.fact-canada.com/discus/messages/10/2912.html?1247363778

San Millán trivializing doping in cycling:

The statistics for doping in cycling are probably the lowest in sports. They do about 10,000 tests per year and we only see only 4 or 5 cases per year. So we're talking .04-.05%.

San Millán praising UCI and blood passport:

ISM: The UCI has done cases as well. As a matter of fact, if you go to a race right now and talk to the riders, the teams in general, the whole doping scene has been decreased dramatically because of the passport. You can see the profiles, the UCI has been showing profiles of the average hematocrit, Hemoglobin, the average testosterone levels, and other hormonal, and for the most part everything's very normal right now. You wouldn't see any cases of high hematocrits any more, that's very well controlled right now.

The degree of doping has decreased so much, the UCI's doing much more than any other federation, way more advanced than other sports. The UCI conducts far more tests than any other international federation, it's the only federation in the world that applies all the battery of tests available right now. The more tests you do, the more people you're going to catch.

So, to be sure, no hard facts on this guy, no explicit (= direct) links to doping cases, yet alot of indirect links to doping cases, through the teams and riders he worked with, and, IMO, a couple of dodgy statements in that interview.

So I've made up my mind: yes this bloke is dodgy.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

In the "JV talks, sort of" thread, we've been discussing the degree of dodgyness of Garmin's former (2010) doctor Inigo San Millán, who joined Garmin in January 2010, replacing Allen Lim, but left Garmin presumably towards the end of the same year.



The discussion was then briefly taken to the Kimmage-interview thread, where it developed as follows:





So, to arbitrate and settle the matter once and for all, the I don't know how many million dollar question is this:
Do you think San Millán is dodgy?
(and if so, how friggin dodgy?)

To help you make your decision, here's more background info on the guy:

His former teams and some of the riders he proudly worked with are listed below:
http://cafescicolorado.org/SanMillan.htm

In addition, he worked with e.g. Kashechskin at Astana, shortly before he got caugh, though to be fair San Millán had just left Astana when our Kazachan friend got busted.

Here's a long interview with San Millán in 2009 on doping in cycling, Bernard Kohl, blood passport, etc. (i.e. from before he joined Garmin):
http://www.fact-canada.com/discus/messages/10/2912.html?1247363778

San Millán trivializing doping in cycling:


San Millán praising UCI and blood passport:


So, to be sure, no hard facts on this guy, no explicit (= direct) links to doping cases, yet alot of indirect links to doping cases, through the teams and riders he worked with, and, IMO, a couple of dodgy statements in that interview.

So I've made up my mind: yes this bloke is dodgy.

Troll poll fail.

 

[sniper]

Troll poll fail.

just earning my right to call him dodgy.

 

[sniper]

San Millán explaining how a windtunnel really works

Dr. Iñigo San Millán drawing blood from United Healthcare's Rory Sutherland for a lactate test (Iñigo San Millán)
You might not have heard of Dr. Iñigo San Millán, but he’s behind interesting research that sheds light on the metabolic effects of aero position and the balance between the two that’s used at the highest level of the sport to maximize time trialling performance.

Dr. San Millán says he put the final touches on his aerodynamic versus metabolic ratio research while working with Garmin-Transitions during the 2010 season, but he no longer works with them due to other obligations.

The mainstay of Dr. San Millán’s research, and what he described to BikeRadar as most important to both professional level time trialists and the weekend enthusiast, is to know that aerodynamic position is only part of a time trialist’s performance equation. All too often, he says, riders will spend thousands of dollars in the wind tunnel only to come out with a ‘technically’ faster position, which then slows down their actual performance in competition.

“We knew we needed to integrate the aerodynamic and metabolic testing in the wind tunnel,” said San Millán. “I’ve been lucky to work with four wind tunnels world wide [San Diego (US), A2 in North Carolina (US), Silverstone (UK), Epsilon (Spain)]. In 2006 I started to do some metabolic testing in San Diego and I was really shocked to observe that there are many aerodynamic positions that are very taxing, metabolically speaking.

http://www.darlingtoncyclingclub.co.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=365

p.s. note that Sutherland got busted in 2005, though i'm not drawing any conclusions from that.

 

[sniper]

It gets dodgier.

While San Millán doesn't appear to be on UHC's payroll, he draws blood from their riders.
Similarly, he's not on Garmin's payroll, yet Garmin went to train in his backyard near Denver.

Note by the way (not sure if this has been discussed) that Hendrik Redant is the directeur sportif of UHC.

1998: Redant spends night in jail but denies having anything to do with doping:

Rennstall-Direktor Hendrik Redant weist alle Vorwürfe zurück: "Mit Doping haben wir nichts zu tun."

http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-7941085.html

 

[sniper]

Correction.
According to this article he is currently the team physiologist for Team United Healthcare. So he seems to be on their payroll.

http://nyvelocity.com/content/event...millan-training-and-monitoring-age-cybercoach

So how dodgy is UHC?

Hendrik Redant. Rory Sutherland. Boy van Poppel.

 

[sniper]

Excellent post by Libertine Seguros.
More dodginess:

How long did Íñigo San Millán stay on as team doctor there? I know he was hired in 2009, and he's now at United Healthcare. He was hired on recommendation from Allen Lim, and is reputed as a key exponent of clean cycling (most of that seems to tie back to a Cyclingnews article of 2009) - though his team history before Garmin was ONCE-Eroski, Saunier Duval and the 2007 Astana team, which isn't the most encouraging.

If you ever want to truly cringe at the whole Garmin clean cycling thing, read through this - it's excruciating.

"Allen (Lim) did a lot of work to develop this programme - this is a continuation of that," said San Millán.

"It's a far more modern team than other squads. To me, it's a whole new concept of cycling team. I think the anglo-saxon mentality towards cycling is completely different to the European one; [anglo-saxon riders] are very, very open to gaining new information on their bodies and physiology over time, so that they can improve their performance.

"They're very well educated in a lot of concepts such as power, lactate thresholds and heartrate. It makes it much easier to work with them as opposed to Europeans, who it can be more difficult to educate in these methodologies."

His two-year deal with Garmin-Transitions will mark a return to the service of professional cycling teams after a two-year hiatus. San Millán has previously worked with Spanish teams including ONCE and Saunier-Duval, as well as Astana in 2007. While a number of his former employers have been beset by doping scandals, San Millán is widely regarded as an exponent of a clean cycling. He cites US-based Garmin's mentality and acceptance of his methods as a primary reason for his return to the sport.

"Overall, one of the reasons Garmin has been so successful has been because of that modern mentality. Because of that, they're always on the same page in terms of modern technologies, innovation and, ultimately, information. Compared to European teams, who do have a different, more traditional mentality," said San Millán.

San Millán stayed in Colorado but made several trips to the team's base in Girona (mmm, that is very inauspicious); the in-house guy there was Dr Carlos González Haro. He was involved in the Olympic Training Centre in Barcelona and as an applied physiologist for Real Madrid in 2008-9, but I don't know anything else about him.

Garmin are obviously very keen on the sports science side of things, but to be honest, finding people with no doping taint whatsoever is always going to be difficult, as Sky found very quickly, quietly dropping their "nobody involved in doping ever" philosophy - maybe they can find riders who haven't been involved, but finding experienced DSes and doctors who haven't been involved in the bad old days is pretty difficult.

 

[JV1973]

This is just stupid. Do you know Inigo's history? do you know how he got kicked off all kinds of teams for trying to convert them to a non-doping philosophy? Do you know how he got physically assaulted by a rider because he told team management the rider's blood values were off? He was messed up pretty bad.

This guy is one of the real forces to change things behind the scenes. One of the few in the medical field that instead of A. Giving up on cycling or B. going ahead and doping the crap out of guys, decided he would get in the middle of it and try to convert guys to a more healthy philosophy. And his career suffered for years because of that stance.

You guys have no ****ing clue about who is who and what is what. It's truly unreal the level of stupidity. Get a life, Sniper. And move out of mom's house while you're at it.

Thanks for sticking up for him, Dr Mas.

JV

 

[sniper]

This is just stupid. Do you know Inigo's history? do you know how he got kicked off all kinds of teams for trying to convert them to a non-doping philosophy? Do you know how he got physically assaulted by a rider because he told team management the rider's blood values were off? He was messed up pretty bad.

This guy is one of the real forces to change things behind the scenes. One of the few in the medical field that instead of A. Giving up on cycling or B. going ahead and doping the crap out of guys, decided he would get in the middle of it and try to convert guys to a more healthy philosophy. And his career suffered for years because of that stance.

You guys have no ****ing clue about who is who and what is what. It's truly unreal the level of stupidity. Get a life, Sniper. And move out of mom's house while you're at it.

Thanks for sticking up for him, Dr Mas.

JV

good to see you back and thanks for replying. (yes, that's genuine)

You guys have no ****ing clue about who is who and what is what.

Most wouldn't be here if they did.

Do you know Inigo's history?

Would i be here fooling around with polls and getting my balls busted by you and Dr. Mas if I would?
Thank you for shedding some light on it, really. Your response alone has made the poll worthwhile.

It's truly unreal the level of stupidity.

Some here find that to apply to Brailsford's marginal gains talk, previously patentized by a certain Bruyneel/Lance tandem. You can't blame us (or perhaps I should speak for myself here) for not buying it without some sort of empirical indications or a "no good money back" guarantee. Braislford can't offer such indications let alone such a guarantee, that's fine and comprehensible, but then respect the fact that I remain skeptic. As another poster once said, I'm here to discuss the dirty side of cycling. Over at the roadcyclingforum you can stick your head in the sand.

Get a life, Sniper. And move out of mom's house while you're at it.

take a chill pill JV. I'll write you a TUE if you need one. One or two skeptics aren't gonna harm you. You get a hell of a lot of public support, and deservedly so. I'm not blaming you for not having read any of my previous posts, but if you would, you would see that even I have lauded your relative openness. I guess my personal problems lie not with my mom, but with the marginal gains stuff. It's been pretty insulting when Lance/Bruyneel silenced us with the high cadence BS, and to hear you continue that rethoric is somewhat disappointing.

This guy is one of the real forces to change things behind the scenes.

I'm totally willing to believe what you write about San Millán above. But I remain skeptical about a couple of things:

1. Why did San Millán ever join Astana? Astana was always going to be dirty.

2. Who is the clean TdF winner that San Millán is bragging about on his CV?

3. Why is he in one boat with Hendrik Redant?

4. Why, in a 2009(!) interview, is he all over the place trivializing cycling's doping problems and praising the UCI? If San Millán got fed up with doping in cycling, as you seem to suggest, why did he stick around in a sport whose governing body condones it?

 

[sniper]

This is just stupid. Do you know Inigo's history? do you know how he got kicked off all kinds of teams for trying to convert them to a non-doping philosophy? Do you know how he got physically assaulted by a rider because he told team management the rider's blood values were off? He was messed up pretty bad.

This guy is one of the real forces to change things behind the scenes. One of the few in the medical field that instead of A. Giving up on cycling or B. going ahead and doping the crap out of guys, decided he would get in the middle of it and try to convert guys to a more healthy philosophy. And his career suffered for years because of that stance.

You guys have no ****ing clue about who is who and what is what. It's truly unreal the level of stupidity. Get a life, Sniper. And move out of mom's house while you're at it.

Thanks for sticking up for him, Dr Mas.

JV

good to see you back and thanks for replying. (yes, that's genuine)

You guys have no ****ing clue about who is who and what is what.

Most wouldn't be here if they did.

Do you know Inigo's history?

Would i be here fooling around with polls and getting my balls busted by you and Dr. Mas if I would?
Thank you for shedding some light on it, really. Your response alone has made the poll worthwhile.

It's truly unreal the level of stupidity.

Some here find that to apply to Brailsford's marginal gains talk, previously patentized by a certain Bruyneel/Lance tandem, and now adopted and explicitly supported by you. You can't blame us (or perhaps I should speak for myself here) for not buying it without some sort of empirical indications or a "no good money back" guarantee. You and Braislford can't or won't offer such indications let alone such a guarantee, that's fine and comprehensible, but then respect the fact that I remain skeptic. As another poster once said, I'm here to discuss the dirty side of cycling. Over at the roadcyclingforum you can stick your head in the sand.

Get a life, Sniper. And move out of mom's house while you're at it.

take a chill pill JV. I'll write you a TUE if you need one. You get a hell of a lot of public support. One or two skeptics aren't gonna harm you.
I guess my main problems arise not from living with my mom, but from being fed the marginal gains story all over again. It's been pretty insulting when Lance/Bruyneel silenced us with the high cadence BS, and to hear you continue that rethoric is somewhat disappointing.

This guy is one of the real forces to change things behind the scenes.

I'm totally willing to believe what you write about San Millán above. But I remain skeptical about a couple of things:

1. Why did San Millán ever join Astana? Astana was always going to be dirty.

2. Who is the TdF winner that San Millán is bragging about on his CV and how clean was he?

3. Why is San Millán in one boat with Hendrik Redant?

4. Why, in a 2009(!) interview, is he all over the place trivializing cycling's doping problems and praising the UCI? If San Millán got fed up with doping in cycling, as you seem to suggest, why did he stick around in a sport whose governing body condones it?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

This is just stupid. Do you know Inigo's history?
JV

Yes.

Vitalicio Seguros.
http://www.dopeology.org/teams/Vitalicio-Seguros-Grupo-Generali/
Once
http://www.dopeology.org/teams/ONCE-Eroski/
Vini Caldirola
http://www.dopeology.org/teams/Vini-Caldirola-Saunier-Duval/
Saunier Duval
http://www.dopeology.org/teams/Saunier-Duval-Prodir/
Astana
http://www.dopeology.org/teams/Astana/

do you know how he got kicked off all kinds of teams for trying to convert them to a non-doping philosophy?

We haven't established a clear timeline for ISM but per team but why would those dirtteams take a clean doc on? And leave him on for several years? And then come to the conclusion their philosofies don't 'match' to put it mildly?

At all teams?

I am not saying it is impossible but given the nature of the pro - peloton, where clean - riding cyclists who promote openly clean cycling are outcasted or even forced out of the sport, I find it hard to believe guys like Manolo Saiz would hire such 'troublemakers'.

Do you know how he got physically assaulted by a rider because he told team management the rider's blood values were off? He was messed up pretty bad.

That is pretty bad of course but isn't it his task/job to tell team management such matters? Or should he directly call WADA?

Why is he stating he is proud to have worked with bloodbagBeloki?

This guy is one of the real forces to change things behind the scenes. One of the few in the medical field that instead of A. Giving up on cycling or B. going ahead and doping the crap out of guys, decided he would get in the middle of it and try to convert guys to a more healthy philosophy. And his career suffered for years because of that stance.

What change? The bio - passport? You mean the 'you can dope if you just stay within the parameters'?

You guys have no ****ing clue about who is who and what is what. It's truly unreal the level of stupidity. Get a life, Sniper. And move out of mom's house while you're at it.

Thanks for sticking up for him, Dr Mas.

JV

So, Wiggo is on this forum after all.

2. Who is the TdF winner that San Millán is bragging about on his CV and how clean was he?

He should change his CV tomorrow as Beloki will be the 2002 winner of la Tour

San Millan did the testing on Contador, you forgot?

To be fair to San Millan, he is no del Moral or other known ar$eholes of the pro - peloton, but his team record doesn't suggest he is the clean cycling prophet he is made out by people. Maybe he is a 'bandwith clean cycling prophet', as I see the bio - passport. But still then you can't speak of a level playing field when you take in account people react differently on PED's.

 

[Runitout]

I don't often agree with JV1973, but I have to completely agree with him here.

I have spoken a few riders about Dr San Millan. Each has indicated that he advocated clean cycling, and was skilled and interested in the health of his charges. (Some doctors might preach clean cycling, but be unskilled at their work or have terrible people skills - just as with some DS).

Just because a rider or a doctor has worked at a 'dodgy' team, does not necessarily make them so.

Exhibit 1 - David Moncoutie
Exhibit 2 - Christophe Bassons

San Millan deserves the benefit of the doubt, absent evidence to the contrary. If you have that evidence, please - fire away. All I see here is smear by association.

 

[sniper]

I don't often agree with JV1973, but I have to completely agree with him here.

I have spoken a few riders about Dr San Millan. Each has indicated that he advocated clean cycling, and was skilled and interested in the health of his charges. (Some doctors might preach clean cycling, but be unskilled at their work or have terrible people skills - just as with some DS).

Just because a rider or a doctor has worked at a 'dodgy' team, does not necessarily make them so.

Exhibit 1 - David Moncoutie
Exhibit 2 - Christophe Bassons

San Millan deserves the benefit of the doubt, absent evidence to the contrary. If you have that evidence, please - fire away. All I see here is smear by association.

Just because a rider or a doctor has worked at a 'dodgy' team, does not necessarily make them so.

You're right about this, it's good you point it out, and I never said it was any differently. I did say that finding somebody 'dodgy' or not is a matter of taste, which is why i arranged this poll in the first place, to see what people think of San Millan.

I have spoken a few riders about Dr San Millan.

Interesting, can you be more specific?

smear by association.

To be sure, San Millán himself wishes to be associated with 1 anonymous TdF winner and 15 GT podium places. He brags about those on his website. How many of those were clean?

And why did he join Astana knowing that a guy like Vino was lining up there? To convince Vino he can win the Olympics clean one day? That's not me smearing him by association. That's him smearing himself.

 

[sniper]

Maybe he is a 'bandwith clean cycling prophet', as I see the bio - passport. But still then you can't speak of a level playing field when you take in account people react differently on PED's.

great post, FGL.

sorry for snipping it, leaving what I found most compelling.
i guess we can all agree, judging from his CV and his interviews, San Millan is a bloodpassport specialist.
What JV refers to as "not having to make that decision", should we read that as "not having to worry you might get busted", and/or perhaps "making sure you're not overdoing it viz. not risking your health while at it"?

 

[Runitout]

You're right about this, and it's good you point it out.

Thanks

Interesting, but can you be more specific?

No, I really can't. Sorry.

To be sure, San Millán himself wishes to be associated with 1 anonymous TdF winner and 15 GT podium places. He brags about those on his website. How many of those were clean?

That is a fair question. But what are your palmares as a cycling team doctor? How do you establish your expertise? How do you get inside?

As an analogy, every respected ethical investigative journalist first joins a dodgy bush tabloid chasing victims' families down the street and making coffee for the boss. Cycling teams are no different.

And why did he join Astana knowing that a guy like Vino was lining up there? To convince Vino he can win the Olympics clean one day? That's not me smearing him by association. That's him smearing himself.

No, that's him getting a job. You might be too proud to joining a doping team, but I can't think of a single cyclist or soigneur or doctor who didn't join a team with dopers as riders or staff. Moncoutie joined Cofidis. Is that a hanging offence?

That's the tragedy of cycling. There is no team of angels to cheer for - the good guys are alone, and have their head down, trying to get by - as the sea of sh!t rolls another breaker their way.

 

[sniper]

Thanks



No, I really can't. Sorry.



That is a fair question. But what are your palmares as a cycling team doctor? How do you establish your expertise? How do you get inside?

As an analogy, every respected ethical investigative journalist first joins a dodgy bush tabloid chasing victims' families down the street and making coffee for the boss. Cycling teams are no different.



No, that's him getting a job. You might be too proud to joining a doping team, but I can't think of a single cyclist or soigneur or doctor who didn't join a team with dopers as riders or staff. Moncoutie joined Cofidis. Is that a hanging offence?

That's the tragedy of cycling. There is no team of angels to cheer for - the good guys are alone, and have their head down, trying to get by - as the sea of sh!t rolls another breaker their way.

good post, good points, and nice analogy

I'm gonna address only one small issue:

How do you get inside?

In the era in which San Millán stepped into cycling, there was (I assume) only one way to get inside, especially inside the teams he got onto (I'll take ONCE and ASTANA to make my point), namely by being very good at enhancing performances.

How do you think a job application went down back in the late 90s, early 2000s? Imagine San Millán talking to Saiz about a job as a medic on the ONCE team. You think Saiz would have hired him without raising the issue of doping, without assuring that San Millan was willing to dope his riders? I don't. San Millan must have been very good at something, and it must have been of interest to a crook like Saiz.

I would agree if you say San Millan may have started on those teams out of the sheer need to get a job. That may very well be true, and he may have changed his ways afterwards, developing something of an anti-doping stance.

But I'm thinking more and more along the lines of FGL's notion of "bandwidth clean cycling". So yes, he may be a very responsible doctor, but is he compelling his riders to race clean?
The thing is: if you're really really clean, you don't need an expensive guy like San Millán to check your bloodlevels that often in the first place. On the other hand, if you've been caught with a positive once because you've been exaggerating it a little bit (Millar, Dekker, Sutherland) and you want to return to cycling but take the juicing down a notch, and not having to worry about getting caught, but still be competitive, that's when you need a guy like San Millán, IMO.

 

[hrotha]

I don't know if San Millán is a dodgy doctor, but what I do know is that you can't expect cycling fans to know about how he was kicked out of some teams for not wanting to dope the riders or about how he was almost assaulted by a rider with suspicious blood values when nobody says ******-all publicly.

We have to scavenge for information, finding the pieces of the puzzle then putting it together even though half of the pieces are missing, and we still get told off for not knowing anything by the people who do know, but refuse to tell us? That's wack.

(JV tells us more than any other person involved in the pro peloton, of course, but the attitude I'm talking of is something you get very often when you interact with former pros or whatever. Some discussions I've had at Foro de ciclismo or on Twitter with Spanish riders come to mind)

 

[Benotti69]

This is just stupid. Do you know Inigo's history? do you know how he got kicked off all kinds of teams for trying to convert them to a non-doping philosophy? Do you know how he got physically assaulted by a rider because he told team management the rider's blood values were off? He was messed up pretty bad.

This guy is one of the real forces to change things behind the scenes. One of the few in the medical field that instead of A. Giving up on cycling or B. going ahead and doping the crap out of guys, decided he would get in the middle of it and try to convert guys to a more healthy philosophy. And his career suffered for years because of that stance.

You guys have no ****ing clue about who is who and what is what. It's truly unreal the level of stupidity. Get a life, Sniper. And move out of mom's house while you're at it.

Thanks for sticking up for him, Dr Mas.

JV

Reduced to insults. Just like Wiggins. Chapeau JV.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

San Millan deserves the benefit of the doubt, absent evidence to the contrary. If you have that evidence, please - fire away. All I see here is smear by association.

Of course, not only benefit of the doubt, innocent untill proven guilty. But when you state and I quote:

In this time, I have had the privilege of working with many world class cyclists like Joseba Beloki, Abraham Olano, Igor Glez de Galdeano, Chris Horner, Fred Rodriguez, Jörg Jackshe, Perdiguero, Piepoli...and many others.

http://nyvelocity.com/content/coachingfitness/2005/coaching-profile-iñigo-san-millán

I get suspicious. 'Working with' or 'having the privilige to have worked with' are two different things and has nothing to do with semantics. When I look at the carreer of for instance Miguel Ángel Martín Perdiguero I see a clear spike in performance:
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/rider.asp?riderid=9

As a team physician I also would be proud of such unexpected results at the age of 32. And really, Perdiguero was rocking the place in 2004! The strange thing is, the next year at Phonak [a 'bloody' good team ] he was half as good.

As a clean cycling docter knowing what humanly is possible I would not brag about it. Or was Perdiguero such a huge talent he did 2004 just on rice and cookies at the age of 32? 2004 being the year a squicky clean Mayo destroyed Vaughters time at Ventoux?

Smoke and fire.

What JV refers to as "not having to make that decision", should we read that as "not having to worry you might get busted", and/or perhaps "making sure you're not overdoing it viz. not risking your health while at it"?

I do tend to think so, yes. I see the bio - pass just like the 50% rule in 1997]Moncoutie joined Cofidis. Is that a hanging offence?[/QUOTE]Of course not.

I have spoken a few riders about Dr San Millan. Each has indicated that he advocated clean cycling, and was skilled and interested in the health of his charges. (Some doctors might preach clean cycling, but be unskilled at their work or have terrible people skills - just as with some DS).

Something like this:
''“Proper physiological testing is crucial to design the best and most individual training program and Iñigo was a great help for me in my career”
Joseba Beloki, Basque Country, Spain, 3-Time Tour de France Podium Finisher''
http://www.anschutzwellness.com/our-facility/human-performance-lab/testimonials

?

For ISM's 'timeline':
he was at Saunier from 2004 till 2007 when he joined Astana
http://nyvelocity.com/content/coachingfitness/2006/dr-iñigos-prescription-overtraining

Nothing to find about him being fired.

 

[sniper]

Of course, not only benefit of the doubt, innocent untill proven guilty. But when you state and I quote:


http://nyvelocity.com/content/coachingfitness/2005/coaching-profile-iñigo-san-millán

I get suspicious. 'Working with' or 'having the privilige to have worked with' are two different things and has nothing to do with semantics. When I look at the carreer of for instance Miguel Ángel Martín Perdiguero I see a clear spike in performance:
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/rider.asp?riderid=9

As a team physician I also would be proud of such unexpected results at the age of 32. And really, Perdiguero was rocking the place in 2004! The strange thing is, the next year at Phonak [a 'bloody' good team ] he was half as good.

As a clean cycling docter knowing what humanly is possible I would not brag about it. Or was Perdiguero such a huge talent he did 2004 just on rice and cookies at the age of 32? 2004 being the year a squicky clean Mayo destroyed Vaughters time at Ventoux?

Smoke and fire.

(...snipped for brevity...)

For ISM's 'timeline':
he was at Saunier from 2004 till 2007 when he joined Astana
http://nyvelocity.com/content/coachingfitness/2006/dr-iñigos-prescription-overtraining

Nothing to find about him being fired.

compelling stuff

And really, Perdiguero was rocking the place in 2004!

excellent find.
that peak at Saunier is serious.
Not having to make that choice must have given him wings.

 

[sniper]

Of course, not only benefit of the doubt, innocent untill proven guilty. But when you state and I quote:


http://nyvelocity.com/content/coachingfitness/2005/coaching-profile-iñigo-san-millán

I get suspicious. 'Working with' or 'having the privilige to have worked with' are two different things and has nothing to do with semantics. When I look at the carreer of for instance Miguel Ángel Martín Perdiguero I see a clear spike in performance:
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/rider.asp?riderid=9

As a team physician I also would be proud of such unexpected results at the age of 32. And really, Perdiguero was rocking the place in 2004! The strange thing is, the next year at Phonak [a 'bloody' good team ] he was half as good.

As a clean cycling docter knowing what humanly is possible I would not brag about it. Or was Perdiguero such a huge talent he did 2004 just on rice and cookies at the age of 32? 2004 being the year a squicky clean Mayo destroyed Vaughters time at Ventoux?

Smoke and fire.

(...snipped for brevity...)

For ISM's 'timeline':
he was at Saunier from 2004 till 2007 when he joined Astana
http://nyvelocity.com/content/coachingfitness/2006/dr-iñigos-prescription-overtraining

Nothing to find about him being fired.

compelling stuff

And really, Perdiguero was rocking the place in 2004!

excellent find.
that peak at Saunier is serious.
Not having to make that choice must have given him wings.

 

[sniper]

Libertine Seguros (see previous page):
San Millán stayed in Colorado but made several trips to the team's base in Girona (mmm, that is very inauspicious); the in-house guy there was Dr Carlos González Haro. He was involved in the Olympic Training Centre in Barcelona and as an applied physiologist for Real Madrid in 2008-9, but I don't know anything else about him.

Meet Dr. Carlos González Haro:

Dr Carlos González Haro is a specialist in High Performance Sport and Sport Physiology. He obtained the PhD at the Department of Physiology and Pharmacology of the School of Medicine of Zaragoza (Spain) focused in the physiological assessment of elite athletes.

He has worked at the Olympic Training Centre in Barcelona and has supported the national triathlon, running, swimming and cycling squads and was team physiologist for the Garmin Pro Slipstream cycling team.

In addition, Carlos has particular expertise in Football with experience to UEFA Champions league level.

He has 10 years’ experience with football players of the second and the first division of Spanish league and he worked for two seasons (2008-2010) at Real Madrid CF at the High Performance Centre and has also contributed to research projects with the International Cycling federation (UCI) and the European Space Agency.

He has published 12 peer reviewed articles and more than 35 international communications related to sport physiology. His research interests include recovery systems, effects of training on metabolic systems and match analysis in team sports.
http://orreco.com/our-company/team/

One of the things that strike me (besides his commitment to Real Madrid shortly after they had been linked to Puerto) is that Gonzalez Haro has roughly the same expertise as San Millán, namely sport physiology in general, recovery systems, effects of training on metabolic systems, etc. So Garmin need not one but two guys with basically the same expertise to get their racers racing?

More generally, why is clean team Garmin drawing its doctors from Spain?
Dodgy or not, both San Millán and González Haro gained their education, field experience and carreer credits in a period in which, most agree, the Spanish sports culture was drained with doping, not just cycling, but also track and field and, well, football.

Why o why, if you're in search of anti-doping docs, throw out your fishing rod exactly in Spain?


(Never mind what Garmin was doing in Girona in the first place. Lance says hi. Del Moral says hi.)

 

[sniper]

Phlebotomist

On Dr.Carlos González Haro's CV (http://ww2.unir.net/doc/gonzalez_haro.pdf), I found one interesting detail: he's a trained Phlebotomist.
From Wikipedia:

Phlebotomists are people trained to draw blood from a live person or animal for tests, transfusions, donations, or research.

Can anybody tell me is this a common expertise for a cycling (/endurance sports) doctor to have?

(Or is it dodgy?)

 

[Benotti69]

Meet Dr. Carlos González Haro:



One of the things that strike me (besides his commitment to Real Madrid shortly after they had been linked to Puerto) is that Gonzalez Haro has roughly the same expertise as San Millán, namely sport physiology in general, recovery systems, effects of training on metabolic systems, etc. So Garmin need not one but two guys with basically the same expertise to get their racers racing?

More generally, why is clean team Garmin drawing its doctors from Spain?
Dodgy or not, both San Millán and González Haro gained their education, field experience and carreer credits in a period in which, most agree, the Spanish sports culture was drained with doping, not just cycling, but also track and field and, well, football.

Why o why, if you're in search of anti-doping docs, throw out your fishing rod exactly in Spain?


(Never mind what Garmin was doing in Girona in the first place. Lance says hi. Del Moral says hi.)

They are cheaper

 

[131313]

This guy is not "dodgy". He's one of the good guys in the sport. The fact is, if you're involved in cycling, you're going to be *associated* with athletes who are "dodgy". So, saying "he worked with XXXX" because he happened to be employed by a team that also employed XXXX, then assuming that he had something to do with that rider's doping? That's both silly and way off base.

This is as ridiculous as claiming someone is doping based on where they live.