how long before Sagan trips the tripwire

[gatete]

Yes, I suppose there is a self-defeating element to it, but; Cavendish was undeniably not there and Greipel had undeniably taken a beating during the stage. They are the two premier flat sprinters right now.

What I think is slightly unfair is that if Goss (a rider with more ability in the climbs but less in the sprint than Cav and Greipel) were to win a flat stage, it's not going to get called out too much.

I would point out that I am not saying he is not doping, nor even that he is not doping excessively (and that is why he is winning). I am saying that I don't believe that what we have seen so far is sufficient to believe that he's doping excessively. Whether the entire field has blood like treacle or they won't even eat caffeine gels, someone is still the best.

Yes, I think that's exactly how I feel about this sagan SAGA.

 

[Caruut]

That sure must have been one bad *** toothache.

Jose Ibagurgen is an expert at keeping toothaches at bay.

 

[ChrisE]

Jose Ibagurgen is an expert at keeping toothaches at bay.

Of course, and it is funny that Gilbert's name has popped up in this thread after the ET act of his in 10 and 11.

 

[Ozzie2]

Yes, I suppose there is a self-defeating element to it, but; Cavendish was undeniably not there and Greipel had undeniably taken a beating during the stage. They are the two premier flat sprinters right now.

What I think is slightly unfair is that if Goss (a rider with more ability in the climbs but less in the sprint than Cav and Greipel) were to win a flat stage, it's not going to get called out too much.

I would point out that I am not saying he is not doping, nor even that he is not doping excessively (and that is why he is winning). I am saying that I don't believe that what we have seen so far is sufficient to believe that he's doping excessively. Whether the entire field has blood like treacle or they won't even eat caffeine gels, someone is still the best.

So far?
As in since Thursday?
Yeah, in itself believable

Since the Tour started- hmm, well, thatis kinda amazing yes. 3 stage wins already

But those 3 wins came_after_this thread points us to remind what he'd already done this season

THAT is my context, not someones chain last night

Maybe I need a signature that will say "this will end in tears" because I can't see anything else here

Sorry, in professional sport, where you SMASH the best of the best who know know are highly likely to be in super supplements, if its too good to be true, it IS too good to be true

 

[c&cfan]

So far?
As in since Thursday?
Yeah, in itself believable

Since the Tour started- hmm, well, thatis kinda amazing yes. 3 stage wins already

But those 3 wins came_after_this thread points us to remind what he'd already done this season

THAT is my context, not someones chain last night

Maybe I need a signature that will say "this will end in tears" because I can't see anything else here

Sorry, in professional sport, where you SMASH the best of the best who know know are highly likely to be in super supplements, if its too good to be true, it IS too good to be true

Unless rider A has some privileges that the others don't (armstrong saga), rider A is not doing anything wrong, no matter how you twist it.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

The age comparison with Cav is a bit silly.

Experience is more relevant as the key skill is getting in the right place at the right time.

This is Sagan's 3rd year at a top level. For Cav that year was 2009, which was pretty similar success wise, although they are clearly very different riders. That year Cav was quicker than this year, and Cav is quicker than Sagan here and now.

Sagan is a great rider.

 

[Caruut]

So far?
As in since Thursday?
Yeah, in itself believable

Since the Tour started- hmm, well, thatis kinda amazing yes. 3 stage wins already

But those 3 wins came_after_this thread points us to remind what he'd already done this season

THAT is my context, not someones chain last night

Maybe I need a signature that will say "this will end in tears" because I can't see anything else here

Sorry, in professional sport, where you SMASH the best of the best who know know are highly likely to be in super supplements, if its too good to be true, it IS too good to be true

Christ.

He has won 3 stages so far, yes. 2 of them, however, are really tailored to a man of his talents. The only win that would really cause me to raise my eyebrows just by looking at the winner and the profile was today's. When you factor in the context, I just don't think the win is that impressive.

This thread exists because he has been one of the most impressive sprinters-cum-puncheurs over the last 2 years. These last few results are certainly his best, but I think quite consistent with what he's shown already. Perhaps I am being too naive.

I have said already that I think he's probably doping (because I think most pros are), but I just don't quite see what reason there is to believe he has some kind of super-juice, beyond him winning a lot. There's no sudden transformation, no dodgy payments, no rumours of hushed positives, no sudden improvements across the whole of Liquigas in a similar way (á la USPS or Sky). Just need more reasons to believe.

 

[Ozzie2]

it just seems in this thread we keep pushing the line of upside/ realistic achievement back when he keeps on keeping on

TT, MTF, GC, Olympics

Or is he really looking like the best cyclist of all time?

How many stages has he won this year again?

He's been in peak form_how_long again?

And he's still planning to be in peak form come Olympics?

 

[yourwelcome]

pathetic posts.

Cannot wait for another kelly or what valverde could've been..

Valverde's golden era was obviously dope propelled, and that's the kind of performance you're hoping for?

 

[barn yard]

bulls*it

bulls*it

bulls*it

No one is THAT good

edit: and the p*ss poor excuses for how he won "injured, blood, chain" oh wake up to yourselves

there were 50 other highly talented riders out there too

this is amazing. what do they call it? cognitive dissidence?

the post saying he dopes get over it is correct

problem then becomes to stupid tom cruise meets ricco ricci celebrations on the back of floyd landis performance

just check the acceleration he had to go over the top of griepel

so griepel and goss are injured hacks

they STILL manage to get to 2 and 3, and over the top of everyone else, but yeah, they weren't good today, wasn't that hard a stage for Sagan to win

this is actually a genuine question- do we think that all other riders are just there to make up the numbers? as in aside from 4 sprinters and 6 GC contenders, all others in the tour are just grunters for them?

never go full ***

 

[Ozzie2]

LOL . got me

you must be able to enjoy these tours in a reasonable time zone? try being up till 2am to watch these every day,

come 3 weeks if Sagan is still winning like this it will be Full *** Jacket

anyway, what, you havent yet twigged that internet forums are therapy for nutjobs?

whether they read or post.

back to OP and your post

never go full ***

i think you are right, problem is I just saw a guy in green go on what i believe was full tilt

just, not , right

 

[blackcat]

pathetic posts.

he is 22 and faster than cav (best sprinter ever) at that age. if he does not beat them (in the future) something is wrong. he has the speed, skills and talent.

cav approaches the terminal velocity for a sprinter. He has in his advantage that tuck position more like a luge toboggan. So Greipel and Sagan might put out the wattage at 24 or 28 or 30, but they can never match the position and the wind profile.

cav is great.

And Cav can win without a train. Did it in either Dreidaagse van de Panne, or 4 Days of Dunkirk, in about 2008, when he had to scythe thru a decimated group, from the rear of the field, and beat Francisco Cicchi. Who woulda won perhaps, but was undergeared.

Cav

Is

Great

so is peter sagan

 

[blackcat]

answered the question if he would have won the previous stage.

In a decimated peloton, where there are not 5 man leadout trains, and you either have to be left off at 200 metres at the front, or on the front man's wheel/slipstream, it is nigh impossible.

More experience finding that wheel, or getting the wheel from his own teammate and getting dropped off at 200 metres when he is the first man, with only the other sprinters strung out in indian file, he could win a bunch like greipel or cav. Unless Cav is on his wheel and will come by him quite easily, like he does to his (Cav) own leadiut like Renshaw in 2011. No one can stop Cav on a flat sprint and a flat run in. His aero profile is a major advantage, allows him to hold the speed for 250+ metres

 

[Zarvinov]

Sagan wins Tour de France stage 6 in Metz

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tour-de-france/stage-6/results

"I crashed at 35km and then again at the mountain ranking," Greipel told Radsport-News.com. "I didn't want to sprint, but my teammates talked me into it. It was unbelievably painful." The German sprinter is believed to have dislocated his left shoulder.

Fractures, bruises and bumps: A stage six injury report

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/fractures-bruises-and-bumps-a-stage-six-injury-report

Andre Greipel of Lotto Belisol proved himself to be an Ironman, when he finished second in the sprint with a suspected dislocated shoulder. He crashed twice on the stage and had to be talked into sprinting by his teammates, although he later said it was “unbelievably painful.”Two hours in the hospital showed however that he had suffered no serious injuries. With bruises on both shoulders and the right wrist, a cut on his right thumb and scrapes on his left knee, shoulder and elbow, Greipel will be at the start again Saturday.

 

[Ozzie2]

not following bro
are you saying he is capable of having won those last stages on his own natural ability now ....as a TdF debutant?

 

[Zarvinov]

not following bro
are you saying he is capable of having won those last stages on his own natural ability now ....as a TdF debutant?

What I am suggesting is. It is highly unlikely that Peter Sagan would have won stage 6, if Andre Greipel had not crashed twice, and sustained those injuries.

 

[Ozzie2]

What I am suggesting is. It is highly unlikely that Peter Sagan would have won stage 6, if Andre Greipel had not crashed twice, and sustained those injuries.

so if i understand it correctly, you are saying then that there were only 2 competitors in stage 6?

 

[c&cfan]

not following bro
are you saying he is capable of having won those last stages on his own natural ability now ....as a TdF debutant?

how does this matter? he is a monument contender, do you think that le tour scares a guy like that? remember boonen and cancellara. for example? or even valverde in his first tour? Or contador in his first attempt in great form?

Sagan is a legend in the making.. and he was already racing and beating all of those guys before.

 

[Caruut]

so if i understand it correctly, you are saying then that there were only 2 competitors in stage 6?

No, there weren't only 2 riders. You're making a perfectly valid point, there's no need to deliberately misinterpret what people are saying. Sagan has established himself as a top-level puncheur and second-tier sprinter (below the likes of Cav, Greipel, Kittel). With that in mind, this latest result is consistent with previous results. Paolini came 8th for crying out loud, this was no regular sprint stage.

 

[Zarvinov]

so if i understand it correctly, you are saying then that there were only 2 competitors in stage 6?

I think that You are misinterpreting My post. Which in no way suggests that there were only two competitors in stage 6. Where you are getting that idea from. I have no idea. What I suggested was that if Greipel had not crashed and sustained injuries during the stage ( Hypothetically speaking ) In all likely-hood - with him being the best sprinter in the front group - he would of won the stage. I can't be any clearer than that.

 

[blackcat]

No, there weren't only 2 riders. You're making a perfectly valid point, there's no need to deliberately misinterpret what people are saying. Sagan has established himself as a top-level puncheur and second-tier sprinter (below the likes of Cav, Greipel, Kittel). With that in mind, this latest result is consistent with previous results. Paolini came 8th for crying out loud, this was no regular sprint stage.

think he has gone past Kittel now. Remember, he may have taken the second stage Greipel won. Personally, I think he would have, had he not been in the pile up.

 

[blackcat]

I think that You are misinterpreting My post. Which in no way suggests that there were only two competitors in stage 6. Where you are getting that idea from. I have no idea. What I suggested was that if Greipel had not crashed and sustained injuries during the stage ( Hypothetically speaking ) In all likely-hood - with him being the best sprinter in the front group - he would of won the stage. I can't be any clearer than that.

who knows what that cost Greipel. He certainly benefited from Lotto's help in the final kilometres, help Sagan was not able to recruit in Liquigas.

Sagan has shown he is as fast as anyone imo, but Cav has the advantage of the minimal aero profile, which allows him to hit the wind earlier, hit a headwind, and go from 250. Most riders struggle from 200. Cav can maintain his speed, and that is what makes him great.

 

[akrogirl]

I am honestly amazed at the lack of reaction to Sagan's performances compared to those of Sky. Top sprinter AND climber? Sorry, I would love to be proven wrong but, for now, I am having a very hard time buying it.

 

[Four Winds]

I am honestly amazed at the lack of reaction to Sagan's performances compared to those of Sky. Top sprinter AND climber? Sorry, I would love to be proven wrong but, for now, I am having a very hard time buying it.

Totally agree

 

[Caruut]

How is he a top climber? He did about as well as several other breakaway guys on a climb.