Human Growth Hormone Test could be upon us..

[unsheath]

Rugby is a farce. Those fat neck meatheads look more like cavemen than sportsman. As someone mentioned earlier, Martin Johnson is a case in point.

 

[luckyboy]

What did Martin Johnson look like in his younger years compared to today? Couldn't find any pictures in the (limited by boredom) amount of time I searched.

 

[jonny testaronny]

Landis & HGH

Hello everyone--long-time lurker here who appreciates the knowledge lots of you bring to the Clinic, as well the relatively small number of fanboys compared to other sites. Never posted before because I can't do it often enough to participate in a discussion, and because most of the things I know others can also provide. May be an exception here, however.

As far as the allegations about Landis using HGH go, I believe they originated on a website run by a former American pro, Matt Decanio. For a few giddy & fascinating years, he was revealing all the dirt he could come up with on drug use among US riders on stolenunderground.com. He alleged that he was told by David Clinger, who rode with Landis on USPS, that Landis used massive amounts of HGH. I don't believe you can access this stuff even on the Wayback Machine anymore (much like the original, revelatory rideclean.org). So here's the only example I saved of what Decanio wrote: "Nice work Floyd Landis taking entire injections and being one of the craziest dopers on Postal. Ask Clinger about that one."

Defenders of Landis probably would say both Clinger and Decanio were at the time (circa 2005) too unstable to be credible sources, but I think you tend to get the most revelatory stuff from guys who feel like they've been kicked around & think they have nothing to lose.

 

[Escarabajo]

Rugby is a farce. Those fat neck meatheads look more like cavemen than sportsman. As someone mentioned earlier, Martin Johnson is a case in point.

He is bad, but not that bad. His neck is thick though.

 

[progressor]

Rugby is a farce. Those fat neck meatheads look more like cavemen than sportsman. As someone mentioned earlier, Martin Johnson is a case in point.

That look alway's seems more prevalent with english forwards. I'd take a look at the props and hookers 1st though.

 

[progressor]

How about Sebastion Chabal's tranformation
http://chabalmania.blogspot.com/2007/09/chabals-look-extraordinary.html

 

[Anonymous]

How about Sebastion Chabal's tranformation
http://chabalmania.blogspot.com/2007/09/chabals-look-extraordinary.html

says it all really..

 

[BroDeal]

How about Sebastion Chabal's tranformation
http://chabalmania.blogspot.com/2007/09/chabals-look-extraordinary.html

It's like de-evolution before your eyes.

If Geico ever needs a more caveman ads...

 

[blackcat]

my fave rassler "Edge" has some wicked acromegaly features, and if you look closely at the features in Contador, they are becoming more pronounced.

 

[SirLes]

If you want a laugh go to the NFL website and read the report on HGH testing there.

The League wants to introduce it- HGH is on the banned list but they currently don't test for it.

Players union are opposed to any blood tests!

 

[Frosty]

On a broader scale, would any change in the features mentioned be linked to artificial hgh? I just ask because someone who is good in sports like rugby might have naturally high levels and this enables them to excel in their sport, ie more muscular, better recovery time. Could this then cause a change in features?

 

[Escarabajo]

On a broader scale, would any change in the features mentioned be linked to artificial hgh? I just ask because someone who is good in sports like rugby might have naturally high levels and this enables them to excel in their sport, ie more muscular, better recovery time. Could this then cause a change in features?

If the athlete had it from the beginning then people are willing to give the benefit of the doubt. The problem is when you see abrupt transformations. I don't know if that's normal unless you introduce external chemicals into your body.

In Cycling I prefer to pay attention to early athlete's life performances, like in the old times. I am very cautious with riders that were nobody's when young and then become studs.

 

[Winterfold]

That's HRH Martin Johnson to you lot.

He has a doctor's note - he is excused from HGH tests on account of his mother being one of the Ferengi

(this is actually a picture of Chabal after an accident with his wife's Immac)

 

[Winterfold]

that transformation of Chabal link is really frightening, I know the beard helps with it, but are you telling me the guy is lifting weights with his jaw?

what are they doing to these guys?

I used to love playing rugby (but gave it up because I was not big enough to play at the level I wanted and was not prepared to do the huge gym work I needed to get my wieght up to the point I could survive), and am still a big fan. The huge amount of aggresion and controlled violence in the sport is exciting in the same way that watching Contador and Rasmussen try to kill each other in 2007 was exciting, so I guess as fans we have a share of responsibility in that we would whine if the sport went back to slower pace softer hits pre Ferengi/Orc days.

Apart from the odd pic of Chicken Rasmussen with his top off and that Roubaix pic of Wiggins cyclists are not as dramatic as some of the before/after rubgy shots.

 

[Oldman]

that transformation of Chabal link is really frightening, I know the beard helps with it, but are you telling me the guy is lifting weights with his jaw?

what are they doing to these guys?

I used to love playing rugby (but gave it up because I was not big enough to play at the level I wanted and was not prepared to do the huge gym work I needed to get my wieght up to the point I could survive), and am still a big fan. The huge amount of aggresion and controlled violence in the sport is exciting in the same way that watching Contador and Rasmussen try to kill each other in 2007 was exciting, so I guess as fans we have a share of responsibility in that we would whine if the sport went back to slower pace softer hits pre Ferengi/Orc days.

Apart from the odd pic of Chicken Rasmussen with his top off and that Roubaix pic of Wiggins cyclists are not as dramatic as some of the before/after rubgy shots.

You have to go back to Olaf Ludwig and some former Eastern block riders to see dramatic changes except for that Festina Fairy.

 

[Bala Verde]

Is Wayne Odesnik the first one caught? He confessed having been in possession of HGH in Australia earlier this year.

 

[poupou]

Is Wayne Odesnik the first one caught? He confessed having been in possession of HGH in Australia earlier this year.

Wasn't he caught because he had 5 or 6 doses of HGH in his luggages?

 

[595RED]

Just a personal opinion, but if I were looking for easy-pickings here it's got to be rugby.

It's an arms race. If you are not 15 stone minimum these days then you are going to get blown off the park (unless you are a rare and mercurial talent, but even then 'tiny' fast guys like Shane Edwards are 5'8" but weigh as much as the heaviest guy in the peloton).

And they get injured so much - bulking up, while staying quick is not a luxury, it's survival.

I would love for Rugby to be ravaged, those overgrown apes that turn from teenagers to hulks within a year of leaving school is just wrong. Time to take a dose of the truth serum fellas and rugby to get its comuppence. Get out of the ivory tower you make up wearing, hair band toting, convertable driving pussies!

 

[Bala Verde]

Wasn't he caught because he had 5 or 6 doses of HGH in his luggages?

Correct. Possession, no positive through a new test.

 

[BroDeal]

New test has a detection window of up to 14 days.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/29/sports/29hgh.html?ref=sports

 

[Escarabajo]

New test has a detection window of up to 14 days.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/29/sports/29hgh.html?ref=sports

Thanks for the info.

Now the questions:

1- When are they going to implement it?
2- Threshold can be set too high. Is there a window to start microdosing just like it happened with EPO?

According to Antidoping officials, the creators of the test said that they set the threshold for a positive extremely high, similar to other levels used in tests conducted by WADA

3- Logistics. Can only be done with blood testing. That's another hurdle to jump. So expect only the big events like the Tour de France to implement it. And also the Protour teams since they are in the Biological Passport program.

4- Costs. Will there be any changes to the Bio-Passport budgets or just tests if suspicious?

Let's hope for the best, but now Dr Ferrari and company will make adjustments accordingly.

 

[Animal]

It's like de-evolution before your eyes.

Exactly what I was about to say! He's transformed himself into a Neanderthal!

 

[TourOfSardinia]

New test has a detection window of up to 14 days.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/29/sports/29hgh.html?ref=sports

But I couldn't help being disappointed by the line that says:

It was the first time that an athlete had been suspended for an H.G.H. positive in the six years that testing has been used, ....
Can't be that many rugby players taking the stuff then - if you get one every 6 years!

 

[Ferminal]

There is a feature on hGH in the new edition of RIDE.

The isoform test which I believe they were using exclusively up until recently, has only a short window to produce a positive after a dose. The isoform test measures the ratio of 22kD and non-22kD isoforms (where synthetic GH would be indicated by more 22kD). The test could only distinguish between the molecular weights, and not whether synthetic or natural growth hormone was responsible. So a positive would only come from exceeding the threshold for the ratio (which we know from EPO, someone can clearly be doping, but not exceed the threshold required for a positive). It also explains that you can cheat the isoform test by acquiring non-22kD isoforms.

So no wonder it's taken half a decade to get a positive from the isoform test.

There's also an explaination of the new marker test which should hopefully get implemented soon. This one sounds like a winner, and combined with the "Bio Passport" could result in easy targetting and detection. The problem so far has been getting the test to a standard which is legally defendable.

The next step is to develop a test which can distinguish between artificial and natural growth hormone.

 

[_nm___]

(...) The next step is to develop a test which can distinguish between artificial and natural growth hormone (...)

unfortunately it is not possible to distinguish one from the other because, to the current state of knowledge, they are identical. but...

(...) There is a feature on hGH in the new edition of RIDE.
The isoform test which I believe they were using exclusively up until recently, has only a short window to produce a positive after a dose. The isoform test measures the ratio of 22kD and non-22kD isoforms (where synthetic GH would be indicated by more 22kD). The test could only distinguish between the molecular weights, and not whether synthetic or natural growth hormone was responsible (...)

... the only difference is that our body fabrics not 1 but about 3 or 4 growth hormones, so as to speak: one that weighs 22kD, another that weighs 20kD, and another that weighs etc... whereas the growth hormone that is available on the market is the 22kD one (the exact replica of the 22kD).
and this is where the ratio comes in: if someone has a lot more 22kD than 20kD or 17kD we know that they have doped.

(...) It also explains that you can cheat the isoform test by acquiring non-22kD isoforms (...)

this is true, but i am not sure that any company makes them at all seen as there is no therapeutic use for them currently. obviously this situation could change if there is a very strong demand coming from the doping market...

(...) There's also an explaination of the new marker test which should hopefully get implemented soon. This one sounds like a winner, and combined with the "Bio Passport" could result in easy targetting and detection (...)

just like the other tests for substances that the body is able to produce, the marker tests are also hit by a threshold, meaning: athletes will still have the possibility to microdose happily if they wish. the only real difference is that the detection time window will be longer - if i remember well, detection window was the only reason why marker tests were developed in the first place.

but this all doesn't really matter any more because there is already an alternative to growth hormone doping.
for those who understand german, here is a link to an interesting tv interview with Angel Heredia from august 2009 where he says it (but he doesn't give away the name of the substance(s)).

http://www.sportschau.de/sp/layout/jsp/komponente/mediaseite/index.jsp?id=80869