"I hope somebody breaks a baseball bat over your head"

[Willy_Voet]

The story from someone at the company (I read in an interview 10+ years ago), was they basically said "you will insure this person or we will find another insurance company for our corporation".

I believe this story was retold in Lance's first book, but it also came from the company side.

As far as insurance fraud, methinks you all are a little too quick to wish another crime on Lance & Co. While pre-existing conditions clauses may make good business sense, they are a seriously contentious issue with individuals often in a losing battle against the company. Ever had to switch jobs and insurance companies at the same time? Your spouse or kids had a surgery before on some body part? Better hope they don't need to have a follow up...

In this case, I think Lance was the benefit of a morally superior position. Too bad he didn't see the light...

 

[redtreviso]

Many companies self pay their medical plans..They are administered and bonded by legit looking insurance company but the bills are paid directly by the company..If oakley does this then shoehorning someone with obvious pre-existing conditions would not be a problem. In other words Oakley just paid Lance's medical bills.

 

[Cloxxki]

The story from someone at the company (I read in an interview 10+ years ago), was they basically said "you will insure this person or we will find another insurance company for our corporation".

I believe this story was retold in Lance's first book, but it also came from the company side.

As far as insurance fraud, methinks you all are a little too quick to wish another crime on Lance & Co. While pre-existing conditions clauses may make good business sense, they are a seriously contentious issue with individuals often in a losing battle against the company. Ever had to switch jobs and insurance companies at the same time? Your spouse or kids had a surgery before on some body part? Better hope they don't need to have a follow up...

In this case, I think Lance was the benefit of a morally superior position. Too bad he didn't see the light...

Very good points. At the time also, Lance certainly deserved the benefit of doubt. Although I can't guess his financial circumstances at the time, having won a WC a few years earlier, and some TdF stages.

Although lance has proven a good milking cow for Oakley since, I am still amazed at their loyalty. If you save a deserted puppy from drowning, do you keep paying the neighbours for the troubles he causes when he because a big, wild, rabid Dobermann?

 

[Cobblestoned]

Not a surprise. Judging by your posts your knowledge of the sport is limited.

Besides that effort to lower my knowledge of cycling:
Have you any links for your fantasies ?
No, they don't exist because what you mentioned never happened. 0%
Should be easy for everyone to understand, hmmm.
Klöden + biopassport + rest of your speculation = that would have been mentioned in German press 100 times by 100 agencies nad would have been discussed heaviely in German forums.
So you are trying to tell a German and rest of the people here that something like that ever happened.
Good luck !
You bonked and fantasized heaviely as your colleague. Your effort to discredit me won't make that any better.

But anyway, I am not surprised by your proceeding. Common practise by the usual suspects. Without substance.

 

[thehog]

The story from someone at the company (I read in an interview 10+ years ago), was they basically said "you will insure this person or we will find another insurance company for our corporation".

I believe this story was retold in Lance's first book, but it also came from the company side.

As far as insurance fraud, methinks you all are a little too quick to wish another crime on Lance & Co. While pre-existing conditions clauses may make good business sense, they are a seriously contentious issue with individuals often in a losing battle against the company. Ever had to switch jobs and insurance companies at the same time? Your spouse or kids had a surgery before on some body part? Better hope they don't need to have a follow up...

In this case, I think Lance was the benefit of a morally superior position. Too bad he didn't see the light...

If anything its speaks poorly to the US health care system. Any other country and he wouldn’t have to go through such rigmarole to be treated – the taxes and people of the state would pay. I think Lance learnt there and then that money buys you everything in the US. Including silence.

 

[Willy_Voet]

If anything its speaks poorly to the US health care system.

I agree. But that is an entirely different thread that will polarize folks more than his Lanceness. I will say, I cannot fathom how such a dysfunctional system has gotten this far.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Besides that effort to lower my knowledge of cycling:
Have you any links for your fantasies ?
No, they don't exist because what you mentioned never happened. 0%
Should be easy for everyone to understand, hmmm.
Klöden + biopassport + rest of your speculation = that would have been mentioned in German press 100 times by 100 agencies nad would have been discussed heaviely in German forums.
So you are trying to tell a German and rest of the people here that something like that ever happened.
Good luck !
You bonked and fantasized heaviely as your colleague. Your effort to discredit me won't make that any better.

But anyway, I am not surprised by your proceeding. Common practise by the usual suspects. Without substance.

I doubt if you meant to do this - but you have just backed up and confirmed exactly what RR said:

Levi and Kloden's names were often attached to that announcement back then. Some German media wanted to run with it and force the UCI to act. The could not get buy off from their editors so they ran the story about how Kloden's name was all over the Telekom doping report. It was later reported that some riders were recommended for sanctions by the Bio-Passport committee but the UCI refused to move forward because the riders would have put up well funded legal defenses.

The Bio-Passport kinda slows down when it comes to a certain team.

Getting back to Oakley - yes, it was in his first book that Oakley had threatened to withdraw from the insurance provider it used for all its staff if Lance was not added as an employee.

 

[Cobblestoned]

I doubt if you meant to do this - but you have just backed up and confirmed exactly what RR said:


Getting back to Oakley - yes, it was in his first book that Oakley had threatened to withdraw from the insurance provider it used for all its staff if Lance was not added as an employee.

I don't think so.
Great again these desperate efforts and logics by the members of the holy brotherhood.
Sorry that I have to notice that you disagree with one of your members.
Houston, we.....

Go on oakling and lancing, so that these desperate tries to justify some lies and fantasys sink down fast.

 

[Oldman]

I agree. But that is an entirely different thread that will polarize folks more than his Lanceness. I will say, I cannot fathom how such a dysfunctional system has gotten this far.

It fell apart in the 80's when insurance companies developed programs and networks large enough to tell doctors and hospitals how much they would pay. They were in it for a predictable bottom line and everyone else inflated prices for the uninsured to cover the discounts.

 

[Darryl Webster]

I agree. But that is an entirely different thread that will polarize folks more than his Lanceness. I will say, I cannot fathom how such a dysfunctional system has gotten this far.

Might I sugest this sight might help give the answers:

http://sickothemovie.com/checkup/

In the documentery there is an audio recording of Nixon in the Oval office saying words to the effect that healthcare reforms he supported were going to be great money making changes.

 

[Race Radio]

Besides that effort to lower my knowledge of cycling:
Have you any links for your fantasies ?
No, they don't exist because what you mentioned never happened. 0%
Should be easy for everyone to understand, hmmm.
Klöden + biopassport + rest of your speculation = that would have been mentioned in German press 100 times by 100 agencies nad would have been discussed heaviely in German forums.
So you are trying to tell a German and rest of the people here that something like that ever happened.
Good luck !
You bonked and fantasized heaviely as your colleague. Your effort to discredit me won't make that any better.

But anyway, I am not surprised by your proceeding. Common practise by the usual suspects. Without substance.

Not my fault you do not have friends.

You are assuming that I do not spend a lot of time in Germany or have many friends in the sport and media in Germany. As usual you would be wrong.

If you ever run into Udo Ludwig or Michael Wulzinger from Der Spiegel you might want to ask them what they heard about Kloden and the UCI.....but given your toxic manner on these forums I would assume that they would not waste time talking with you.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Not my fault you do not have friends.

You are assuming that I do not spend a lot of time in Germany or have many friends in the sport and media in Germany. As usual you would be wrong.

If you ever run into Udo Ludwig or Michael Wulzinger from Der Spiegel you might want to ask them what they heard about Kloden and the UCI.....but given your toxic manner on these forums I would assume that they would not waste time talking with you.

Do what you want. But you can't sell your specultations and accusations as fact/truth if you haven't any sources for that - than just your fantasy.
Your greatest customers are the usual suspects - Think about that.
Imagine everybody would do that. Hmmhh ?
But anyway I see a lot of people doing that here.
Sometimes I wonder if here are any users who are not insiders or not have great insider sources.

I have seen that a all in German forums. If all these people meet/met at one point - guess who doesn't attend these meetings ?

All these popular pseudo-insiders and pseudo-(ex)pro-cyclists who claimed to be important and full of glory, power and insideknowledge in forums.

PS: Just leave these personal thing out - it discredits you as serious source.
Your fault. Greetings to Udo !
I would have no problem meeting and talking to you when you visit Germany next time. Perhaps that would change your opinion about me, when i can speak freely in my first language. ;-)

Some need to be big and insidish in forums to be accepted by the usual suspects and get their moment of "glory" - others prefer to have a relative peace around themselfes and their daily (forum)-life.

 

[Race Radio]

Do what you want. But you can't sell your specultations and accusations as fact/truth if you haven't any sources for that - than just your fantasy.
Your greatest customers are the usual suspects - Think about that.
Imagine everybody would do that. Hmmhh ?
But anyway I see a lot of people doing that here.
Sometimes I wonder if here are any users who are not insiders or not have great insider sources.

I have seen that a all in German forums. If all these people meet/met at one point - guess who doesn't attend these meetings ?

All these popular pseudo-insiders and pseudo-(ex)pro-cyclists who claimed to be important and full of glory, power and insideknowledge in forums.

PS: Just leave these personal thing out - it discredits you as serious source.
Your fault. Greetings to Udo !
I would have no problem meeting and talking to you when you visit Germany next time. Perhaps that would change your opinion about me, when i can speak freely in my first language. ;-)

Some need to be big and insidish in forums to be accepted by the usual suspects and get their moment of "glory" - others prefer to have a relative peace around themselfes and their daily (forum)-life.

You wonder why people respond to you in such a negative manner, just read this post. I gave you two very good sources who write for one of the most important news magazine's in Germany and your response is nothing but name calling.

Save your persecution complex. You bring it all on your self with posts like this.

 

[indurain666]

, just read this post. I gave you two very good sources who write for one of the most important news magazine's in Germany and your response is nothing but name calling.

Save your persecution complex. You bring it all on your self with posts like this.

Yeah, this guy is an insult to logic and intelligence. What is even funnier is that his posts, although usually unreadable, are filled with arrogance as if he were smart or knowledgeable. But whatever works for him, if he wants to go bed thinking Lance is clean, more power to him.

 

[Berzin]

Some need to be big and insidish in forums to be accepted by the usual suspects and get their moment of "glory" - others prefer to have a relative peace around themselves and their daily (forum)-life.

Blah blah blah. You just come on this site to refute the mounting piles of evidence against your boy.

It ain't working. You and your ilk have become an anachronism on this forum, a silly and pathetic joke.

Denigrate to your heart's delight-the Feds already have ex-teammates who have cooberated the doping. The names and details haven't been released yet, but it's already public knowledge that testimony has been given.

Feel free to start ManCrushAnonymous.com. You guys will need a support group very soon.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Yeah, go on with your poor efforts.

@ berzin
Perhaps you should go back and watch what you wrote. Were you joking or what ?

Do remember......bla bla. It was much entertainment to serve you the Bio-Pas names and answer you.
All that you and your friends are trying now is to steal out of this affair and get out of the nonsense you posted earlier in this thread - discrediting me now again is your last try. Should I give a link, so that everyone can see your great effort again.
I leave you here with your defeat. I'm a nice guy.

Good luck !

 

[Cobblestoned]

Yeah, this guy is an insult to logic and intelligence. What is even funnier is that his posts, although usually unreadable, are filled with arrogance as if he were smart or knowledgeable. But whatever works for him, if he wants to go bed thinking Lance is clean, more power to him.

I know. The only truth accepted is your own truth and that of da club.
No, Lance is/was not clean. Did I ever post that he is ? You won't find any post where I claim that.
Nice try to discredit me with another lie - not more. Good luck, too. Peace.

 

[Choocher]

$

The same way that Lance did. It's all about money. In the U.S., capitalism is most important. If it wasn't, we'd have an equitable health care system and Lance probably wouldn't have turned into such a piranha of the profit motive. He really is a caricature of American greed (and the "ugly American" in general), and he was always like this, even as a teenager. I write this as a U.S. citizen myself, and one who has traveled extensively, and lived, in other countries as well. Just my opinion.

I agree. But that is an entirely different thread that will polarize folks more than his Lanceness. I will say, I cannot fathom how such a dysfunctional system has gotten this far.

 

[indurain666]

No, Lance is/was not clean. .

Dude, nobody is discrediting you, you need to have some street credit first in order for us to do that and you haven't earned it Joking aside, why do you think people are attacking you when they disagree with you??

If you think Lance doped, then what the heck is your problem with people discussing a criminal investigation against him as he, allegedly, used government money (and did a bunch of other felonies) for doping?

 

[Berzin]

If you think Lance doped, then what the heck is your problem with people discussing a criminal investigation against him as he, allegedly, used government money (and did a bunch of other felonies) for doping?

Because it's easier to say he's never wrong when he talks out of both sides of his mouth.

Cobbledygook thinks no one sees through his duplicitous, disingenuous tripe.

But we do. Say goodnight, fanboy/apologist. You are officially irrelevant.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

Cobblestoned is now taking a one-month vacation from the forum.

Susan

 

[buckwheat]

I agree. But that is an entirely different thread that will polarize folks more than his Lanceness. I will say, I cannot fathom how such a dysfunctional system has gotten this far.

You're not an American?

I can fathom how this dysfunctional system has gotten this far. I'm an American and I understand many of them.

You ever see "Invasion of the Body Snatchers?" The original? That stuff is really happening. People are really being replaced by pea pods.

No kidding.

 

[kielbasa]

Yes, especially since pre-existing conditions weren't (and probably still aren't) covered by health insurance companies.

I'm not sure how anyone could have finagled this, because insurance companies would have ruled him ineligible for coverage for his cancer treatments if he received said coverage after his initial diagnosis.

This point may actually be used to rally sympathy for LA as it was already used to justify Obamacare in the U.S. What was formerly known as insurance fraud has now become a human right. I'm not taking sides, just making a point.

 

[buckwheat]

This point may actually be used to rally sympathy for LA as it was already used to justify Obamacare in the U.S. What was formerly known as insurance fraud has now become a human right. I'm not taking sides, just making a point.

I get your point.

I think this was an unfortunate overreach on Berzin's part.

By your use of the characterization re current health care legislation, you are taking sides btw.

I don't mind myself, but if LA didn't have health care insurance, do you believe he should have been treated for his cancer?

Despite not liking the guy, I have to say that society should bear the costs of a person in such a situation.

 

[kielbasa]

I get your point.

I think this was an unfortunate overreach on Berzin's part.

By your use of the characterization re current health care legislation, you are taking sides btw.

I don't mind myself, but if LA didn't have health care insurance, do you believe he should have been treated for his cancer?

Despite not liking the guy, I have to say that society should bear the costs of a person in such a situation.

Answering your question would take this thread OT, so I'll decline the bait. I made my remarks simply to point out that bringing up insurance fraud by Oakley/Lance will not be helpful to the prosecution in the current political climate. Your sentiments actually illustrate that.