• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

Il Lombardia 2017

Page 16 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Re: Re:

DingoGuesdon said:
DFA123 said:
Leinster said:
DFA123 said:
Something slightly meh when a rider wins a parcours clearly designed for him to win on.

Yeah, the way the road went up the hill, and then down again afterwards, and then up another hill and down again, and then up another hill and, wait for it, DOWN AGAIN, was so obviously set up for him and no other rider ever had a chance.
More the fact that Lombardia has transitioned in to a race more for high mountain specialists than for classics riders in the last few years. Coincidentally at the very same time as Italy started to lose their top classics riders and gained several good high mountain climbers.

High mountain climbers already have loads of prestigious races throughout the year they can win - there's no need to design a monument for them as well.
it is still a good balance when you see riders like Alaphilippe and Moscon who could win.
I agree. The descending skills are what won Nibali the two races not exactly his climbing. Let's not forget the two riders who got 2nd the two times Nibali won were Moreno and Alaphilippe. Both are good climbers, but not the kind of guys who win gt's.

I think LBL should be a race for puncheurs where climbers have a decent chance as well, while Lombardia should be a race for climbers where puncheurs have decent chance as well. The route was maybe slightly too mountainous but surely not a lot too hard.
 
Mar 1, 2017
39
0
0
Visit site
Re:

rick james said:
Has the petition started yet to get Moscon banned from the race and his nuts cut off so his seed dies with him and we'll never have his sorts in the peloton ever again...or was it just a French man being a bad loser?
the french rider qot DSQed. Make of that what you want.
 
Oct 4, 2014
748
0
0
Visit site
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
Leinster said:
DFA123 said:
Something slightly meh when a rider wins a parcours clearly designed for him to win on.

Yeah, the way the road went up the hill, and then down again afterwards, and then up another hill and down again, and then up another hill and, wait for it, DOWN AGAIN, was so obviously set up for him and no other rider ever had a chance.
More the fact that Lombardia has transitioned in to a race more for high mountain specialists than for classics riders in the last few years. Coincidentally at the very same time as Italy started to lose their top classics riders and gained several good high mountain climbers.

High mountain climbers already have loads of prestigious races throughout the year they can win - there's no need to design a monument for them as well.
Except for a couple of Bergamo finishes it has been like this since the Cunego-Bettini years...
 
Re: Re:

franic said:
jaylew said:
franic said:
DFA123 said:
Disappointing for Pinot, he animated the race and certainly didn't leave anything on the road. I think though he'll still have to work on his descending a bit more to break his one day race curse. He wasted way too much energy trying to limit the gap to Nibali on the downhill.
2nd or 10th or 20th doesn't make too much difference...
What? 2nd in a monument is MUCH better than 10th or 20th. Good race by him, though. I wish he'd have beat Moscon for 3rd.
Of course it's much better, but the difference between 1st and second is much greater than the difference between 2nd and 10th. Decreasing marginal utility...
I completely disagree.
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
DingoGuesdon said:
DFA123 said:
Leinster said:
DFA123 said:
Something slightly meh when a rider wins a parcours clearly designed for him to win on.

Yeah, the way the road went up the hill, and then down again afterwards, and then up another hill and down again, and then up another hill and, wait for it, DOWN AGAIN, was so obviously set up for him and no other rider ever had a chance.
More the fact that Lombardia has transitioned in to a race more for high mountain specialists than for classics riders in the last few years. Coincidentally at the very same time as Italy started to lose their top classics riders and gained several good high mountain climbers.

High mountain climbers already have loads of prestigious races throughout the year they can win - there's no need to design a monument for them as well.
it is still a good balance when you see riders like Alaphilippe and Moscon who could win.
Not sure they were really that close to winning. If Nibali wasn't there and hadn't put Pinot or Uran into the red on the descent, then one of those two would win.

Six years in a row now that Lombardia has been won by GT climbing specialists. It's a bit much imo.
The podium today are all great classics riders. Two of them (the so-called GT climbing specialists) have podiumed MSR... The third has a 5th in Roubaix.

If Nibali wasn't there, it'd have been decided on San Fermo, and Pinot and Uran would likely still have been beaten.
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
jaylew said:
franic said:
DFA123 said:
Disappointing for Pinot, he animated the race and certainly didn't leave anything on the road. I think though he'll still have to work on his descending a bit more to break his one day race curse. He wasted way too much energy trying to limit the gap to Nibali on the downhill.
2nd or 10th or 20th doesn't make too much difference...
What? 2nd in a monument is MUCH better than 10th or 20th.
Indeed. This idea that only 1st place matters is utterly ridiculous, for a whole load of commercial and sporting reasons.
Agreed. There are 3 places on the podium, after all.
 
Re: Re:

franic said:
DFA123 said:
Leinster said:
DFA123 said:
Something slightly meh when a rider wins a parcours clearly designed for him to win on.

Yeah, the way the road went up the hill, and then down again afterwards, and then up another hill and down again, and then up another hill and, wait for it, DOWN AGAIN, was so obviously set up for him and no other rider ever had a chance.
More the fact that Lombardia has transitioned in to a race more for high mountain specialists than for classics riders in the last few years. Coincidentally at the very same time as Italy started to lose their top classics riders and gained several good high mountain climbers.

High mountain climbers already have loads of prestigious races throughout the year they can win - there's no need to design a monument for them as well.
Except for a couple of Bergamo finishes it has been like this since the Cunego-Bettini years...
Well yeah, that's kind of what I meant by the original comment. When Italy had a load of top puncheurs the route was designed for them. Then they retired and Gilbert came, looking like he would dominate the course for a decade. At the same time, Nibali emerged (and later Aru), and lo and behold, the route became one that was suited to them.

Not sure I could imagine RVV, PR or LBL radically changing the course to suit local riders in the same way. Which makes it a bit meh for me.
 
Mar 1, 2017
39
0
0
Visit site
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
DingoGuesdon said:
DFA123 said:
Leinster said:
DFA123 said:
Something slightly meh when a rider wins a parcours clearly designed for him to win on.

Yeah, the way the road went up the hill, and then down again afterwards, and then up another hill and down again, and then up another hill and, wait for it, DOWN AGAIN, was so obviously set up for him and no other rider ever had a chance.
More the fact that Lombardia has transitioned in to a race more for high mountain specialists than for classics riders in the last few years. Coincidentally at the very same time as Italy started to lose their top classics riders and gained several good high mountain climbers.

High mountain climbers already have loads of prestigious races throughout the year they can win - there's no need to design a monument for them as well.
it is still a good balance when you see riders like Alaphilippe and Moscon who could win.
Not sure they were really that close to winning. If Nibali wasn't there and hadn't put Pinot or Uran into the red on the descent, then one of those two would win.

Six years in a row now that Lombardia has been won by GT climbing specialists. It's a bit much imo.
The course will be designed so that the best italian riders of the moment have a chance to win. This explains why a rider like Bartoli could win it and now it is Aru and Nibali who have a chance.
 
Re: Re:

DingoGuesdon said:
The course will be designed so that the best italian riders of the moment have a chance to win. This explains why a rider like Bartoli could win it and now it is Aru and Nibali who have a chance.
Exactly - and this is pretty much the only monument to do this in such an obvious way. Which, for me, does devalue it a bit compared with the other big classics - particularly when an Italian wins, who would have had no chance on the same race a decade earlier.
 
Re: Re:

Netserk said:
DFA123 said:
DingoGuesdon said:
DFA123 said:
Leinster said:
Yeah, the way the road went up the hill, and then down again afterwards, and then up another hill and down again, and then up another hill and, wait for it, DOWN AGAIN, was so obviously set up for him and no other rider ever had a chance.
More the fact that Lombardia has transitioned in to a race more for high mountain specialists than for classics riders in the last few years. Coincidentally at the very same time as Italy started to lose their top classics riders and gained several good high mountain climbers.

High mountain climbers already have loads of prestigious races throughout the year they can win - there's no need to design a monument for them as well.
it is still a good balance when you see riders like Alaphilippe and Moscon who could win.
Not sure they were really that close to winning. If Nibali wasn't there and hadn't put Pinot or Uran into the red on the descent, then one of those two would win.

Six years in a row now that Lombardia has been won by GT climbing specialists. It's a bit much imo.
The podium today are all great classics riders. Two of them (the so-called GT climbing specialists) have podiumed MSR... The third has a 5th in Roubaix.

If Nibali wasn't there, it'd have been decided on San Fermo, and Pinot and Uran would likely still have been beaten.
Maybe. But without Nibs being away like that Uran likely wouldn't have wasted himself with his move.
 
Oct 4, 2014
748
0
0
Visit site
Re: Re:

Netserk said:
The podium today are all great classics riders. Two of them (the so-called GT climbing specialists) have podiumed MSR... The third has a 5th in Roubaix.

If Nibali wasn't there, it'd have been decided on San Fermo, and Pinot and Uran would likely still have been beaten.
Wow, I totally forgot MSR 2012. Also Nibali almost won LBL...
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
DingoGuesdon said:
The course will be designed so that the best italian riders of the moment have a chance to win. This explains why a rider like Bartoli could win it and now it is Aru and Nibali who have a chance.
Exactly - and this is pretty much the only monument to do this in such an obvious way. Which, for me, does devalue it a bit compared with the other big classics - particularly when an Italian wins, who would have had no chance on the same race a decade earlier.
What a load of bull.
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
franic said:
DFA123 said:
Leinster said:
DFA123 said:
Something slightly meh when a rider wins a parcours clearly designed for him to win on.

Yeah, the way the road went up the hill, and then down again afterwards, and then up another hill and down again, and then up another hill and, wait for it, DOWN AGAIN, was so obviously set up for him and no other rider ever had a chance.
More the fact that Lombardia has transitioned in to a race more for high mountain specialists than for classics riders in the last few years. Coincidentally at the very same time as Italy started to lose their top classics riders and gained several good high mountain climbers.

High mountain climbers already have loads of prestigious races throughout the year they can win - there's no need to design a monument for them as well.
Except for a couple of Bergamo finishes it has been like this since the Cunego-Bettini years...
Well yeah, that's kind of what I meant by the original comment. When Italy had a load of top puncheurs the route was designed for them. Then they retired and Gilbert came, looking like he would dominate the course for a decade. At the same time, Nibali emerged (and later Aru), and lo and behold, the route became one that was suited to them.

Not sure I could imagine RVV, PR or LBL radically changing the course to suit local riders in the same way. Which makes it a bit meh for me.

Aru was nowhere to be found today
I don't think you're making peace with your statements
First you say: "italy organized the Lombardia for Nibali"
then you move the goalpost,when people showed you that Nibs was the strongest uphill,dowhill and in the last flat part.

"italy organized il Lombardia for the Italians"
Alaphilippe arrived 2nd though

One thing is to say: "iLombardia should not be for climbers" (I don't agree given the abundance of classics for riders of different skills,but you can express your concern)
another thing is: "ilLombardia should not be for Italians" (which it doesn't exist as a problem given that the premise is false
 
Mar 1, 2017
39
0
0
Visit site
Re: Re:

franic said:
Netserk said:
The podium today are all great classics riders. Two of them (the so-called GT climbing specialists) have podiumed MSR... The third has a 5th in Roubaix.

If Nibali wasn't there, it'd have been decided on San Fermo, and Pinot and Uran would likely still have been beaten.
Wow, I totally forgot MSR 2012. Also Nibali almost won LBL...
Nibali is a very underrated rider. There is always an asterisk next to his tour de France victory but even before Froome and others retired, he had created a huge gap which would have been near impossible to get back. He is smart,offensive and simply good. More versatile than Contador, he is simply in the top three of the past ten years.
 
Oct 4, 2014
748
0
0
Visit site
Re: Re:

46&twoWheels said:
Aru was nowhere to be found today
I don't think you're making peace with your statements
First you say: "italy organized the Lombardia for Nibali"
then you move the goalpost,when people showed you that Nibs was the strongest uphill,dowhill and in the last flat part.

"italy organized il Lombardia for the Italians"
Alaphilippe arrived 2nd though

One things is to say: "iLombardia should not be for climbers" (I don't agree given the abundance of classics for riders of different skills)
another thing is: "ilLombardia should not be for Italians" (which it doesn't exist as a problem given that the premise is false
Totally agree. Also, given that in the past 20 years MSR has become much more boring than it used to be with the old finish line, I think it's totally fine having made il Lombardia a little bit tougher.
 
Oct 4, 2014
748
0
0
Visit site
Re: Re:

fauniera said:
DingoGuesdon said:
The course will be designed so that the best italian riders of the moment have a chance to win. This explains why a rider like Bartoli could win it and now it is Aru and Nibali who have a chance.
What a load of crap. And by the way, Bartoli was a fantastic rider.
...who could have potentially won also on the tougher Bergamo-Como course. Who won two very tough stages in the Giro. Who would have won a WC without a terrible injury. And of course all the classics he won...
 
Re: Re:

DingoGuesdon said:
franic said:
Netserk said:
The podium today are all great classics riders. Two of them (the so-called GT climbing specialists) have podiumed MSR... The third has a 5th in Roubaix.

If Nibali wasn't there, it'd have been decided on San Fermo, and Pinot and Uran would likely still have been beaten.
Wow, I totally forgot MSR 2012. Also Nibali almost won LBL...
Nibali is a very underrated rider. There is always an asterisk next to his tour de France victory but even before Froome and others retired, he had created a huge gap which would have been near impossible to get back. He is smart,offensive and simply good. More versatile than Contador, he is simply in the top three of the past ten years.
Pfff.....He's the most overrated rider in the history of this forum. :p