blaxland said:Common publicus im not salty or upset just stating what i believe to be true.
I'm just tweaking your nose blaxland.
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blaxland said:Common publicus im not salty or upset just stating what i believe to be true.
blaxland said:I dont want lance to win "go baby schleck"thats who i think will win.Contadors problem is that he doesnt follow orders even if its for the best of the team....Professionals are not just paid to win there paid to act professional on and off the bike.So who is being a team player now....not Contador
elapid said:Blaxland - please provide evidence other than Lance's quote as to how Contador did not follow orders? I have provided two quotes from Bruyneel that states otherwise.
blaxland said:Last night on sbs tv(australian television station)lance and johan bruneel were both interviewed seperatley and both stated that no orders were given to attack on arciales stage.Thus telling me contador took measures into his own hands.Defying his teams orders..
WRONG!!!! the definition of professional is not: one who follows orders. The definition is more along the lines of: someone who gets paid to perform, with great skill. Sorta Like Contador does when the road goes upwardblaxland said:Because professional atheletes are paid to follow orders thus the name professional...
blaxland said:Last night on sbs tv(australian television station)lance and johan bruneel were both interviewed seperatley and both stated that no orders were given to attack on arciales stage.Thus telling me contador took measures into his own hands.Defying his teams orders..
Hey, I agree with you 100%! But as I read that I thought, This is a Lance master stroke(Or so he's hoped!)!!! He would join the team with the Peloton's strongest rider, and his best fan, DS Bruyneel. That would kill two birds with one stone. Bruyneel would fall under his gaze once again, and be mesmerized into submission, and then they would both work together, to demonize and neutralize Contador. Thus handing LA his 8th TdF title( if he can fend off all the other challengers). How brilliant is that?? and to think it was right before our eyes all along!Publicus said:if Lance wasn't committed to supporting Contador as Astana's GC candidate, he should have formed his own team or signed with another squad. He chose Astana and so he needs to tow the team line. It's not about him. It's not his time. If Alberto falters, well then he can pick up the reins. Until then, he needs to be doing whatever he can to increase Contador's chances of winning. And that includes shutting the f*ck up with all of his passive aggressive psycho-babble.
Imagine Heras saying he had come to the Tour to win....
blaxland said:Because professional atheletes are paid to follow orders thus the name professional...
blaxland said:Last night on sbs tv(australian television station)lance and johan bruneel were both interviewed seperatley and both stated that no orders were given to attack on arciales stage.Thus telling me contador took measures into his own hands.Defying his teams orders.
Thoughtforfood said:That is the most reasonable post I have ever seen by you, sincerely.
Here is my question, when has Lance ever treated Contador like a respected teammate? I point to a couple of twitter incidents and his propensity to speak publicly about him in sideways inferences. Lance and Bruyneel have shown that there is no reason for Contador to trust them. Stage 3 was a clear indication that they desire Lance in yellow more than Contador. From Bruyneel's position, it probably has more to do with marketing than desire to see him win. For Armstrong, it is the other way around.
Again, the smartest way for a weaker rider (at this point Lance) to beat a slightly better rider (at this point Contador) if you are on the same team, is to get yellow and then require capitulation to time honored tactics. Also, you do this in a very public manner. Something in which Mr Armstrong excels.
gjdavis60 said:I thought Contador's move was a little foolish because it did nothing to change his situation on the team. If he wants to end the controversy he needs to end it by putting Armstrong away decisively and for good. 20 seconds to the bad or 2 seconds to the good won't do it. His move at the end of Stage 7 simply ****ed people off without settling anything. He had a perfect opportunity: a long uphill drag to the line. Why didn't he go sooner and put 2 minutes into Armstrong like Armstrong used to do to his rivals? Then it's "game over" and everyone on Astana would simply shut up and ride for him because there would be nothing left to do.
gjdavis60 said:I thought Contador's move was a little foolish because it did nothing to change his situation on the team. If he wants to end the controversy he needs to end it by putting Armstrong away decisively and for good. 20 seconds to the bad or 2 seconds to the good won't do it. His move at the end of Stage 7 simply ****ed people off without settling anything. He had a perfect opportunity: a long uphill drag to the line. Why didn't he go sooner and put 2 minutes into Armstrong like Armstrong used to do to his rivals? Then it's "game over" and everyone on Astana would simply shut up and ride for him because there would be nothing left to do.
gjdavis60 said:I thought Contador's move was a little foolish because it did nothing to change his situation on the team. If he wants to end the controversy he needs to end it by putting Armstrong away decisively and for good. 20 seconds to the bad or 2 seconds to the good won't do it. His move at the end of Stage 7 simply ****ed people off without settling anything. He had a perfect opportunity: a long uphill drag to the line. Why didn't he go sooner and put 2 minutes into Armstrong like Armstrong used to do to his rivals? Then it's "game over" and everyone on Astana would simply shut up and ride for him because there would be nothing left to do.
180mmCrank said:Contador is the best rider and he's fed up of all the crapolla around who's the leader. So when he saw the opportunity to take back the 20s that he was trailing Armstrong he took it. I am sure that JB was p!ssed because that's not the Postal/Discovery/Astana way. But there are split loyalties and priorities in the team ... and we are going to see more of this before the end of the Tour.
But Contador will be in Yellow by Paris IMHO
LargusMeans said:Just another typical example of how LA can do no wrong, and how AC is out to try and win the tour for himself.
Ummmm, duh, no sheet.
But lets reverse everything, if AC gained time on stage 3, with his teamates driving it home and LA going by himself yesterday and gaining time. Well the media/fanboys would be having a field day, Stage 3 would be selfish AC tries to hurt LA by driving the pace with his teammates, and Stage 7 would be LA true tour hero, the class of the field would be the media headlines.
LA was my hero, and I was firmly behind him for his seven victories. But this whole thing is really making me gag on the BS being spewed by LA and the media. Sorry LA, you quit and left, AC then became the man and IS the man now. Alot of this is just making me feel like your tarnishing your reputation. I truely hope that AC goes out and annihilates you ever chance he gets now.
Your ego has truely grown bigger then your skills, very very sad. You want a grand tour triple winner and THE team leader to bow down before you just because you decide to come back, and when he shows his skills, you play the media spin to make it sound like he's a crappy teammate. But when you do it, you make AC sound like an amateur because "He should have been more aware". Give me a break dood.
Rbudman said:Lance is simply going to have to deal with being out-lanced this year. so far it is all by the JB formula: win the TT's. take time on the summit finishes (especially the first), control everything else from the front of the peleton.
Thoughtforfood said:Two things:
1. The fact that he got time on everyone including Lance on such a shallow gradient is proof that they guy is a beast. Normally, it would have taken a much steeper one to pull out time.
2. Contador was smart to go back ahead of Mr Armstrong. Lance is looking for ways to beat a stronger rider. His hand is to keep Contador behind him and hope he gets the yellow first so that he can then demand everyone subject to his position. Contador knew that, and so did JB on stage 3. He helped put his second rider from the first stage ahead of his first for a reason. Just like Ben Stiller showing up to give the jersey after the TTT was orchestrated. What Contador did was ride for himself in the face of a DS who wouldn't commit to the strongest rider, and Mr Armstrong's inability to be trusted on anything that comes out of his mouth.
LL's interview on Versus this morning was telling in one way. He said clearly that they were trying to get Lance in yellow and that Contador's attack kept that from happening. (it appears it wouldn't have happened anyway) Now, if the genius plan was for the yellow to go to another team, then why would he have said that, and why was Astana riding tempo on the front today anyway?
Contador made a smart tactical move because he is now the one who will take the yellow if he and Lance finish together. Lance will never respect that, and wouldn't have in any instance. Why should Contador have allowed someone like that to get the jersey?
dadoorsron said:on your first point. Why would you chase down a teammate. So that argument that lance didn't go after contador because, he couldn't or he tried and failed is not a logical one. The only team in recent history to ride after a teammate is t-mobile, and Johan I feel has much more control over his team.
on the second point. Contadors very poor excuse about attacking Evans and sastre when both of them were in the lead group is just a cover story for his attempt to seperate himself from Armstrong, Leipheimer, and Kloden. When Directors of other teams are asking for help from other teams in the media to attack team astana their is a reason why. Team astana will fill the podium with there riders. Now in my book Contador was handed the 2007 Tour. He didn't win it on the road and I would say that about anyone that won that race. The removal of a rider that had a 3 plus minutes on second place Rasmussen. Was given the race by actions taken by a team For good reason. Contador was not the best Climber in that race Rasmussen was.
Publicus said:Seems to me he both honored his teammates sacrifice by counter-attacking when he did. There were no further attacks and the team put more time into the other GC candidates. So now Schleck and the others need to pick up an additional 21 seconds instead of chipping a couple of seconds away. Perhaps tactics and strategy aren't your strong suit but this tactic was a key step in JB's overall strategy (putting more time into the other GC candidates). This race wasn't won on Stage 7, but it did move the team closer.
dadoorsron said:on your first point. Why would you chase down a teammate. So that argument that lance didn't go after contador because, he couldn't or he tried and failed is not a logical one. The only team in recent history to ride after a teammate is t-mobile, and Johan I feel has much more control over his team.
on the second point. Contadors very poor excuse about attacking Evans and sastre when both of them were in the lead group is just a cover story for his attempt to seperate himself from Armstrong, Leipheimer, and Kloden. When Directors of other teams are asking for help from other teams in the media to attack team astana their is a reason why. Team astana will fill the podium with there riders. Now in my book Contador was handed the 2007 Tour. He didn't win it on the road and I would say that about anyone that won that race. The removal of a rider that had a 3 plus minutes on second place Rasmussen. Was given the race by actions taken by a team For good reason. Contador was not the best Climber in that race Rasmussen was.
elapid said:I think everything you say is correct. Lance is a very good leader, particularly when the team is built around him like in the US Postal and Discovery days. I am also by no means ruling him out of winning the Tour - he is only 2 seconds behind and riding strongly. I also agree with you about Contador - he does react emotionally and makes silly tactical errors. However, I am not sure whether a professional team needs a dictatorial leader like Lance or a leader who leads by example like Contador, despite questions over his decision making skills. Lance's wins usually relied heavily on the team, whereas Contador seems to be able to do more by himself. This may favour Contador if/when it comes down to team divisions.
As you say, who are the other seven men in the team going to support? Bruyneel gave Contador a nod before the TdF started by selecting Sergio Paulinho, who was preferred by Contador, rather than Lance's man Chris Horner. This selection alone made me think that the team was going to be divided. My predictions: Levi and Popovych for Lance; Zubeldia, Paulinho and Muravyev for Contador; and no idea about Kloden and Rast.
Who knew we would agree over so many things?!