Interesting piece on Livestrong

[Polish]

I think that the negative Lance publicity is hitting the Foundation much harder than the negative Foundation publicity. The attacks on Lance's personal trustworthiness are the real killer.

I might disagree MarkvW.

Publicity is publicity sometimes, and even bad publicity pays off too.
Especially in the case of Lance with all the "backlash" support that is ignited whenever the SSDD stuff comes out.

Would be interesting to see the donations to the Foundation from the first half of 2011 compared to the second half. First half was smearjob witch hunt galore, and the second half was post Motion crickets.

Maybe the first half was just as strong as the second half?
Maybe stronger yikes?
I think Lance stepping off the Competitive Stage has the potential to impact the Foundation most. But a lot of smart people know this and there would be plans in place I imagine.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

What is interesting in regards to the salaries is not this list.

If you add up the totals above and subtract these 12 people from the 88 total employees you can devise the remaining avg. salary per person - by using the total wage bill in the financials.

If my math serves me correct it works out to $34,000 per person!

Looks like there are some people getting totally ripped off working down there in Austin!

Not sure how you came to that figure.

The overall wage bill for 2010 was over $7,000,000 -so when you take away the above figures (which don't include other payments to those mentioned) there is nearly $5 million to divide between 78 - it is approx $65,000.
Not bad for writing on a message board.

 

[Race Radio]

What is interesting in regards to the salaries is not this list.

If you add up the totals above and subtract these 12 people from the 88 total employees you can devise the remaining avg. salary per person - by using the total wage bill in the financials.

If my math serves me correct it works out to $34,000 per person!

Looks like there are some people getting totally ripped off working down there in Austin!

most of the 88 are interns.

 

[Velodude]

<snip> ... But a lot of smart people know this and there would be plans in place I imagine.

Orderly plans or a palace revolution?

One of the downsides of a personality cult. Gotta watch your back

 

[thehog]

Not sure how you came to that figure.

The overall wage bill for 2010 was over $7,000,000 -so when you take away the above figures (which don't include other payments to those mentioned) there is nearly $5 million to divide between 78 - it is approx $65,000.
Not bad for writing on a message board.

I stand corrected you're right. I take that back. No wonder they're all so loyal. Especially when all the work is outsourced.

 

[MacRoadie]

$US34k is a salary that amounts to being ripped off ? How well paid are you that you snear at that sort of salary ?

$34K is 10% below the state AVERAGE for Texas (which is ranked 27th among US states). It is 20% below the average here in California (ranked 12th), and nearly 40% below the AVERAGE per-capita income in Connecticut, the state ranked #1.

$34K amounts to about $16.00 per hour, pre-tax. Figure in about a 25% tax bracket and you're left with $25.5K or $12.00 per hour. Taking home $500.00 per week in the US in 2012 is struggling to survive.

http://bber.unm.edu/econ/us-pci.htm

As an example, the national median income for a male, full-time worker in the US in 2010 was $47,000 dollars.

In fact, you could get a job as a manager at an Austin, TX McDonalds and make 20% more ($40,000) with no formal education (except maybe how to cook fries and make shakes).

http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/McDonald-s-Store-Manager-Salaries-E432_D_KO11,24.htm

 

[MarkvW]

I might disagree MarkvW.

Publicity is publicity sometimes, and even bad publicity pays off too.
Especially in the case of Lance with all the "backlash" support that is ignited whenever the SSDD stuff comes out.

Would be interesting to see the donations to the Foundation from the first half of 2011 compared to the second half. First half was smearjob witch hunt galore, and the second half was post Motion crickets.

Maybe the first half was just as strong as the second half?
Maybe stronger yikes?
I think Lance stepping off the Competitive Stage has the potential to impact the Foundation most. But a lot of smart people know this and there would be plans in place I imagine.

Lance can't really manage a response to the negative attacks. He loses if he talks about doping because the simple fact of him talking about doping is a major publicity amplifier. He also has insurmountable problems because his defense means calling Fraud, Tugboat, and maybe Big George liars. They aren't lying about Lance and it is obvious. His other problem is that he is an aggressive jerk. His one solution is direct attack (think Simeoni). Lance isn't the face of public relations damage control. Lance wants to get to "Doping Doesn't Matter Anymore," but he's incapable of bringing that message home.

Lance is now just a "paid spokesman." He can only take so many hits before advertisers move on to more effective spokespeople. Bad publicity hurts him cumulatively and feeds back onto the Foundation. Lance-favorable publicity is everything to both him and the Foundation. I think it's very fair to say that money that could be going to help cancer victims through the Foundation is instead being spent to offset the negative hits that Lance's image has received in consequence of his doping. People making donations think about stuff like that--especially when they can donate their money to other charities.

 

[BotanyBay]

Just sending a "ping" out there. Have any of you recently had your email account hacked? The one that I use for this topic has been hijacked and deleted quite recently. And I'd been exchanging messages with people involved in the publication of this article.

Please PM me.

 

[Polish]

Lance can't really manage a response to the negative attacks. He loses if he talks about doping because the simple fact of him talking about doping is a major publicity amplifier. He also has insurmountable problems because his defense means calling Fraud, Tugboat, and maybe Big George liars. They aren't lying about Lance and it is obvious. His other problem is that he is an aggressive jerk. His one solution is direct attack (think Simeoni). Lance isn't the face of public relations damage control. Lance wants to get to "Doping Doesn't Matter Anymore," but he's incapable of bringing that message home.

Lance is now just a "paid spokesman." He can only take so many hits before advertisers move on to more effective spokespeople. Bad publicity hurts him cumulatively and feeds back onto the Foundation. Lance-favorable publicity is everything to both him and the Foundation. I think it's very fair to say that money that could be going to help cancer victims through the Foundation is instead being spent to offset the negative hits that Lance's image has received in consequence of his doping. People making donations think about stuff like that--especially when they can donate their money to other charities.

Except that the Floyd E-Mails came out almost 2 years ago. Then everyone media-wise jumped on the smearjob train. WSJ/SI/SundayTimes/OutdoorMag/60Minutes/BlogUponBlog/Etc/Etc.
The latest Outdoor Article was SSDD. Lance is a Fraud. Cancer Shield. Blah Blah Blah - many articles have been saying that for years now.

How did Livestrong do during 2010 and 2011?
I believe they did ok to better than ok.
SmearJob Central but Livestrong did ok.

Lets face facts. Livestrong benefitted from Lance much much more than Lance benefitted from Livestrong. And as Lance moves further and further into retirement, Livestrong will have to leave the nest. Livestrong will have to continue to flourish without the publicity that Lance brings. Unless Lance continues to stay in the news.

 

[Velodude]

Except that the Floyd E-Mails came out almost 2 years ago. Then everyone media-wise jumped on the smearjob train. WSJ/SI/SundayTimes/OutdoorMag/60Minutes/BlogUponBlog/Etc/Etc.
The latest Outdoor Article was SSDD. Lance is a Fraud. Cancer Shield. Blah Blah Blah - many articles have been saying that for years now.

How did Livestrong do during 2010 and 2011?
I believe they did ok to better than ok.
SmearJob Central but Livestrong did ok.

Lets face facts. Livestrong benefitted from Lance much much more than Lance benefitted from Livestrong. And as Lance moves further and further into retirement, Livestrong will have to leave the nest. Livestrong will have to continue to flourish without the publicity that Lance brings. Unless Lance continues to stay in the news.

If all these leading media outlets were publishing/broadcasting seriously false and defamatory articles and interviews about lillywhite Lance why did not LA attempt to enrich himself through the courts by seeking legal redress?

We know that "60 Minutes" and "Sports Illustrated" were very careful in establishing the facts before broadcasting/publishing. The content of other "gutter journals", WSJ, Sunday Times and Outdoor Magazine, were based on the same facts with added facts that could be confirmed.

"60 Minutes" stands by its story as truthful, accurate and fair. Lance Armstrong and his lawyers were given numerous opportunities to respond to every detail of our reporting for weeks prior to the broadcast and their written responses were fairly and accurately included in the story

Interview with Selena Roberts of Sports Illustrated

BLOCK: Lance Armstrong, of course, has been asked about doping many, many times over the years and has always said: Look, I've been tested many times, and I've always come up clean. We ran your article by Lance Armstrong's lawyer, Timothy Herman, and let me read you part of what he said in response.

There were numerous inaccuracies. We found that Roberts did not provide us with specific allegations that we could respond to in a timely manner at all. We provided documents and information, court testimony and sworn affidavits to Sports Illustrated that were ignored.

What is your response to Lance Armstrong's lawyer's response?

Ms. ROBERTS: Well, for two weeks, we reached out to Lance Armstrong. We provided him topics that we wanted to discuss. We provided him questions that we wanted to have answered. He refused to discuss anything with us and went through his lawyer.

So there were certainly options for them to give us information. They chose to give us selected information and not the total information, and that was their choice.

We, throughout the entire story, whenever there was an issue, I think you would look, and you would see that Lance's lawyers had a response to them.

 

[Polish]

If all these leading media outlets were publishing/broadcasting seriously false and defamatory articles and interviews about lillywhite Lance why did not LA attempt to enrich himself through the courts by seeking legal redress?

We know that "60 Minutes" and "Sports Illustrated" were very careful in establishing the facts before broadcasting/publishing. The content of other "gutter journals", WSJ, Sunday Times and Outdoor Magazine, were based on the same facts with added facts that could be confirmed.

One man's facts are another man's smearjob. No problem. No argue.
But the point I was making to MarkvW is that the facts/smearjob did not seem to impact the donations to Livestrong in a negative way. Maybe donations even went up. BackLash Effect. "Leave Lance Alone" Effect.

Going forward, however, I see Lance's retirement having the potential to impact LiveStrong more than additional SSDD (true or false SSDD). And again, I figure the smart folks at Livestrong have thought through this and past this. That's why they are paid the big bucks lol.

 

[Anonymous]

One man's facts are another man's smearjob. No problem. No argue.
But the point I was making to MarkvW is that the facts/smearjob did not seem to impact the donations to Livestrong in a negative way. Maybe donations even went up. BackLash Effect. "Leave Lance Alone" Effect.

Going forward, however, I see Lance's retirement having the potential to impact LiveStrong more than additional SSDD (true or false SSDD). And again, I figure the smart folks at Livestrong have thought through this and past this. That's why they are paid the big bucks lol.

Yea, I am pretty sure they have thought past this. I bet they already have a new name planned. I think that's smart. Take any reference to Lance out. Probably better take out the "Live" too because people might have been fooled by Lance once, but fool me twice, shame on...um....won't get fooled again as they say in Texas. Speaking of which, I just had a BRILLIANT idea. They can change the name to "The Who."

They should send me your check this month. You're welcome.

 

[pig pen]

Yea, I am pretty sure they have thought past this. I bet they already have a new name planned. I think that's smart. Take any reference to Lance out. Probably better take out the "Live" too because people might have been fooled by Lance, but fool me twice, shame on...um....won't get fooled again as they say in Texas. Speaking of which, I just had a BRILLIANT idea. They can change the name to "The Who."

They should send me your check this month. You're welcome.

Lance never fooled anyone.....just sayin!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-SvY00_boQ

As an American I appreciate Lance, the Europeans, and Edith Piaff!!!

 

[thehog]

Except that the Floyd E-Mails came out almost 2 years ago. Then everyone media-wise jumped on the smearjob train. WSJ/SI/SundayTimes/OutdoorMag/60Minutes/BlogUponBlog/Etc/Etc.
The latest Outdoor Article was SSDD. Lance is a Fraud. Cancer Shield. Blah Blah Blah - many articles have been saying that for years now.

How did Livestrong do during 2010 and 2011?
I believe they did ok to better than ok.
SmearJob Central but Livestrong did ok.

Lets face facts. Livestrong benefitted from Lance much much more than Lance benefitted from Livestrong. And as Lance moves further and further into retirement, Livestrong will have to leave the nest. Livestrong will have to continue to flourish without the publicity that Lance brings. Unless Lance continues to stay in the news.

Problem being he'll never admit to the doping. And with that white elephant sitting in the room he's a little stuffed. He spent his entire career telling everyone he is clean. Mark is correct he needs to get it to: "Everyone was doping it, so what" - but that would actually meaning admitting. You can hardly be the inspiration he claims to be when he's too scared to even admit a small fault like doping. I mean scoundrels like Ty and Floyd could admit it. Maybe Lance is not man enough to do so?

I don't know.

It someways its become a running joke. The fact that he still pretends he didn't dope is a little long in the tooth. The longer it goes on the sillier he looks.

 

[Race Radio]

You guys heard that story of Lance telling a roomful of interns to smear LeMond on the internet? That's a great story. Wouldn't it be funny if a high level employee confirmed it to a journalist? Yeah, that would be funny. Raising awareness one message board at a time

Wouldn't it be funny if Livestrong funds were used at the Yellow Rose? Yeah, that would be funny.

 

[mewmewmew13]

You guys heard that story of Lance telling a roomful of interns to smear LeMond on the internet? That's a great story. Wouldn't it be funny if a high level employee confirmed it to a journalist? Yeah, that would be funny. Raising awareness one message board at a time

Wouldn't it be funny if Livestrong funds were used at the Yellow Rose? Yeah, that would be funny.

I think a breeze is starting to rustle the leaves.

 

[pig pen]

Problem being he'll never admit to the doping. And with that white elephant sitting in the room he's a little stuffed. He spent his entire career telling everyone he is clean. Mark is correct he needs to get it to: "Everyone was doping it, so what" - but that would actually meaning admitting. You can hardly be the inspiration he claims to be when he's too scared to even admit a small fault like doping. I mean scoundrels like Ty and Floyd could admit it. Maybe Lance is not man enough to do so?

I don't know.

It someways its become a running joke. The fact that he still pretends he didn't dope is a little long in the tooth. The longer it goes on the sillier he looks.

Maybe someone can run a poll on the site, When did I first read/purchase Outside Magazine. Tyler is not a scoundrel, he is a really nice guy. Just ask the writers at Outside Magazine.

 

[Race Radio]

Wouldn't it be funny if someone talked to the girls at the Yellow Rose? Yeah, that would be funny. Hey, it was all about "Raising Awareness"

Someone who has the Cajones to call shipping a T-Shirt a "Program Cost" has a very loose idea of what is right and wrong

Giffords article is just a start. Many people want to talk. Remember 10 years ago when everyone used to laugh off the doping stories.....

tic tic tic

 

[veganrob]

Lance never fooled anyone.....just sayin!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-SvY00_boQ

As an American I appreciate Lance, the Europeans, and Edith Piaff!!!

Holy cow, man has to be doped to the gills to do that ***.

 

[thehog]

Wouldn't it be funny if someone talked to the girls at the Yellow Rose? Yeah, that would be funny. Hey, it was all about "Raising Awareness"

Someone who has the Cajones to call shipping a T-Shirt a "Program Cost" has a very loose idea of what is right and wrong

Giffords article is just a start. Many people want to talk. Remember 10 years ago when everyone used to laugh off the doping stories.....

tic tic tic

I did hear of an undercover journalist posing as an inturn but the "girls" speaking up is a little long. Not like a stripper to give their well paying clients up.... unless a tabloid was paying more of course then maybe.

I do agree this article was a start. Its really all he's got now. It was the only thing holding his some of his story together in the general publics eye. Now thats falling apart.

 

[Anonymous]

Like rats leaving a sinking ship: http://charlotte.craigslist.org/bik/2793402724.html

Probably should have sold this a few years ago. I'd offer him salvage value ($5) but the plexiglass is cracked, so the frame is useless.

 

[thehog]

Comment of the day on the Outside comments list. With this reasoning our jails would be empty!

--

"What's the deal with the picture of Lance at the top? Don't really wanna look at the outline of a wang every time I click to go to the next page. As a follower of pro cycling since 2003 I just find this article sad. Unfortunately anyone that knows anything about cycling knows that there's been widespread doping happening long before Lance's time. Lance cheated, but he was also competing against other cheaters, so I think his athletic achievements are just as impressive. The ethics of it all however, that's another story. His foundation has done good work and he himself has done much more than just about any other athlete for others. I just find it sad that now his name will be dragged through the mud and that of his foundation as well, what for? what will this accomplish? Testing in cycling has been improving for the past few years, but there will always be cheating, in ANY sport. Unfortunately he's in an impossible situation because those outside of cycling don't understand that in the culture of pro cycling, cheating is the status quo. For them it's not even cheating, most of the guys doing it did it just to recover properly or be able to finish the stage race they were in. The fact that Lance did it didn't give him a huge advantage over his competitors since almost everyone was on something, especially his main competitors (Jan Ullrich, Ivan Basso, Alex Zulle, Marco Pantani etc). If he admits he's screwed, if he doesn't and he's proven guilty he's screwed, it's a prisoner's dilemma situation. People cheated in cycling and everyone knows it, spend the time and money improving the drug controls and the laboratory methods for the testing, not ruining the man's life."

 

[Cloxxki]

Comment of the day on the Outside comments list. With this reasoning our jails would be empty!

--

"What's the deal with the picture of Lance at the top? Don't really wanna look at the outline of a wang every time I click to go to the next page. As a follower of pro cycling since 2003 I just find this article sad. Unfortunately anyone that knows anything about cycling knows that there's been widespread doping happening long before Lance's time. Lance cheated, but he was also competing against other cheaters, so I think his athletic achievements are just as impressive. The ethics of it all however, that's another story. His foundation has done good work and he himself has done much more than just about any other athlete for others. I just find it sad that now his name will be dragged through the mud and that of his foundation as well, what for? what will this accomplish? Testing in cycling has been improving for the past few years, but there will always be cheating, in ANY sport. Unfortunately he's in an impossible situation because those outside of cycling don't understand that in the culture of pro cycling, cheating is the status quo. For them it's not even cheating, most of the guys doing it did it just to recover properly or be able to finish the stage race they were in. The fact that Lance did it didn't give him a huge advantage over his competitors since almost everyone was on something, especially his main competitors (Jan Ullrich, Ivan Basso, Alex Zulle, Marco Pantani etc). If he admits he's screwed, if he doesn't and he's proven guilty he's screwed, it's a prisoner's dilemma situation. People cheated in cycling and everyone knows it, spend the time and money improving the drug controls and the laboratory methods for the testing, not ruining the man's life."

Wise words. It's a bit like insider trading, don't you think? Everyone in the wealthy world does it.
What do we do with omni-beloved superstars who are caught insider trading, BTW? Oh, I forgot, JAIL TIME.

 

[Stingray34]

Wise words. It's a bit like insider trading, don't you think? Everyone in the wealthy world does it.
What do we do with omni-beloved superstars who are caught insider trading, BTW? Oh, I forgot, JAIL TIME.

I lol'd

 

[frenchfry]

Comment of the day on the Outside comments list. With this reasoning our jails would be empty!

--

"intern blah blah."

Hope the interns are unpaid, if this was costing by the word Livestrong would have to increase the "outside services" budget.

It appears that "everyone was doing it" is the new talking point. Have to soften up the fanboy crowd slowly.