Isaac Del Toro thread

[Unchained]

Interesting style. Lots of speed changes. But always there

This may sound a little silly, but w Del Toros ebb and flow style, Williams waited for the ebb and jumped everyone and by the time they reacted, Del Toro included Williams was still in a state of acceleration. Impressive. Of course Isaac winning would have been great, but so is standing on the boxes at your first race!! Unsure why he was holding back on taking a hit off his champagne like the others? Either way standing on the podium, not giving up, contesting the sprint, all very impressive

 

[scribers]

This may sound a little silly, but w Del Toros ebb and flow style, Williams waited for the ebb and jumped everyone and by the time they reacted, Del Toro included Williams was still in a state of acceleration. Impressive. Of course Isaac winning would have been great, but so is standing on the boxes at your first race!! Unsure why he was holding back on taking a hit off his champagne like the others? Either way standing on the podium, not giving up, contesting the sprint, all very impressive

Listening to Bruyneels assessment of him now. Attributed his loss to a basic lack of experience and possibly some team tactics (moving around the peloton too much). Wasn't worried at all about not winning and was quite 'bullish' on DT. Says even before this race was talking to someone he described as the top three cyclists ever (who? he wouldnt' say as they were going to interview him during their upcoming podcast) who was pointing at del toro as a talent to watch.

 

[Unchained]

Listening to Bruyneels assessment of him now. Attributed his loss to a basic lack of experience and possibly some team tactics (moving around the peloton too much). Wasn't worried at all about not winning and was quite 'bullish' on DT. Says even before this race was talking to someone he described as the top three cyclists ever (who? he wouldnt' say as they were going to interview him during their upcoming podcast) who was pointing at del toro as a talent to watch.

I have not seen the Johan opinion, but seeing him taking a leak 40+ riders back on a grade, sure 2-3% but still and then humping it back up to the front has to cost something on your calorie count..
He rode good.. I saw 2 UAE riders that I thought would be taking wind for him, but instead Del Toro was a little faster than the rest of the team, and UAE w and without the jersey did zero chasing, no hard work, yes it's January.. I get it. And if you look at each day, teams really only put in 35k max of pushing it, so you can't expect much in January. Del Toro has gas for sure, but this is not the B league anymore and when you look around and see guys like Welsford, Ewan,Girmay,ect alarm bells have to be going off, drag racing days that worked before don't work anymore..

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Listening to Bruyneels assessment of him now. Attributed his loss to a basic lack of experience and possibly some team tactics (moving around the peloton too much). Wasn't worried at all about not winning and was quite 'bullish' on DT. Says even before this race was talking to someone he described as the top three cyclists ever (who? he wouldnt' say as they were going to interview him during their upcoming podcast) who was pointing at del toro as a talent to watch.

Pretty limited number of people this could be. Assuming it isn’t Lance, since they’re on the podcast together all the time. Doubt it’s Contador, since he and JB had a falling out and don’t see JB describing him in those terms. Not Mercx since he’s the greatest, not “top 3.”

Any chance it’s Pogacar himself, as one could argue he’s performing like a top 3 cyclist, even though his palmares aren’t there?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Winner of Avenir, a talent to watch? It's good we have these top-3 -riders-of-all-time-insiders to tell us these things.

 

[scribers]

Thinking Sean Kelly but I have a hard time hearing him raving about any young rider. Maybe indurain? The badger?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Thinking Sean Kelly but I have a hard time hearing him raving about any young rider. Maybe indurain? The badger?

Top 3, that means it's either:

Eddy Merckx
Roger De Vlaeminck
Roger De Vlaeminck

(Top 3 riders of all time, as listed by Roger De Vlaeminck).
(disclaimer: above list may be ordered from worst to best)

 

[scribers]

Winner of Avenir, a talent to watch? It's good we have these top-3 -riders-of-all-time-insiders to tell us these things.

These guys assess based on qualities rather than potential from palmares

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

These guys assess based on qualities rather than potential from palmares

Ah, then i completely withdraw my mockery!

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

These guys assess based on qualities rather than potential from palmares

Really? They undertake in depth analysis of criteria that are not available to those of us who might not have been among the top three cyclists on our last club spin?
Or they just speak in glowing terms about those that they know we are already excited about because they know it's good for the ratings of their podcast?

 

[scribers]

Yeah. I tend to take greater stock in what winners say in a riders quality vs let’s say, random anonymous forum user. Our 5 pages of already excitement withstanding

 

[Landeirovic]

Program Del Toro

Muscat Classic
Tour Oman
Uae Tour
Coppi Bartali

 

[rallybanana]

Pretty limited number of people this could be. Assuming it isn’t Lance, since they’re on the podcast together all the time. Doubt it’s Contador, since he and JB had a falling out and don’t see JB describing him in those terms. Not Mercx since he’s the greatest, not “top 3.”

Any chance it’s Pogacar himself, as one could argue he’s performing like a top 3 cyclist, even though his palmares aren’t there?

It could be Van der Poel, definitely a top 3 cyclist ever in the cyclocross discipline. Or maybe someone from artistic cycling.

 

[Salvarani]

Program Del Toro

Muscat Classic
Tour Oman
Uae Tour
Coppi Bartali

I feel like doing both Oman and UAE might be doing too much, for him, but they probably know what they are doing.

But I guess it makes sense to do them both after traveling back from Australia. To stop there.

 

[repre]

I feel like doing both Oman and UAE might be doing too much, but they probably know what they are doing.

But I guess it makes sense to do them after traveling back from Australia to stop there.

That's not demanding races... he must be fine

 

[Salvarani]

That's not demanding races... he must be fine

Still it takes its toll and you are adding many race days on him very early.

I think only Oman on the way back makes more sense. After that Bartali and races like Trofeo Laiguila.

Skip UAE.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Yeah. I tend to take greater stock in what winners say in a riders quality vs let’s say, random anonymous forum user. Our 5 pages of already excitement withstanding

It's more a probability than an absolute, I.E a top sportsman would be more likely to know more than randomers on here, but it's not a guarantee. See: Pele, Merckx himself.

Armstrong for example is famously clueless about most things cycling, luckily he seems to have taken a bit of a backseat to Bruyneel who has an encyclopaedic knowledge, making that podcast more listenable.

 

[Netserk]

They probably planned for him to have his spring peak in February, and it makes good sense to give it a go where the level is lower.

 

[repre]

Still it takes its toll and you are adding many race days on him very early.

I think only Oman on the way back makes more sense. After that Bartali and races like Trofeo Laiguila.

Skip UAE.

UAE is probably benchmark race for him and main goal of early season...

 

[Salvarani]

UAE is probably benchmark race for him and main goal of early season...

?

Whats Yates, Vine, McNulty doing there.

I am not sure about that at all.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Ayuso was younger when he rode his first Vuelta, just to put things into perspective. Unless UAE Tour explodes into daily crosswind-echelons festivities, i very much doubt riding such a race will be too much, even after Oman and TDU. I'd actually say it's kind of perfect. One 12k TT (which will be very interesting for Del Toro), four flat sprint stages over wide long roads, and two unipuerto stages with climbs at low altitude which should be completely within his comfort zone.

Yeah. I tend to take greater stock in what winners say in a riders quality vs let’s say, random anonymous forum user. Our 5 pages of already excitement withstanding

Well, perhaps. Merckx at one point said Gilbert and Van der Poel could win the Tour de France. Feel free to put your stock in that. One of 'm is still an active rider. The thing is that stating someone is a talent to watch, is ultimately meaningless and intentionally vague. It applies to a large part of professional riders, so that saying it about the winner of Avenir needs no further analysis. Even Foss, the least talented winner of Avenir of the past decade (who only won because competition was unlucky or crashed out, and he waited until his final year in U23 and was basically battling guys 2-3 years younger), even Foss still became WCC ITT. Other winners of Avenir of the past decade were: Bernal, Pogacar, Uijtdebroeks, Gaudu, Soler...

 

[repre]

?

Whats Yates, Vine, McNulty doing there.

I am not sure about that at all.

Yates is fine, two others don't have Del Toro's upside, so i don't see him working for them. He'll get free role to show himself

 

[KZD]

I feel like doing both Oman and UAE might be doing too much, for him, but they probably know what they are doing.

But I guess it makes sense to do them both after traveling back from Australia. To stop there.

I agree, only 5 days between Oman and UAE Tour so it seems a bit too much but maybe he will take it easier in the latter because I expect Yates to be the main leader.

I wonder what will his schedule look from April onwards. Personally I would send him to a similar schedule to Ayuso last year, Romandie, Suisse, Spanish one-day races (Ordizia, Getxo, CSS) and then if he performs well on these, I would send him to the Vuelta, otherwise I would send him to Burgos, Deutschland Tour and some Italian one-day races to finish the season.

 

[Jspear]

I’m glad to see people saying he looked like Pogacar and not that he is the next Pogacar.

 

[scribers]

Has sending Ayuso to the grand tour so young been to his advantage or detriment? It’s old school to not take riders so young to a grand tour. But perhaps that thinking is gone?