Jalabert positive for EPO in 1998 TDF

[Bavarianrider]

I bet Jens Voigt isn't to unhappy know that he didn't win that stage in 1998 but only finished second. Lucky escape I d say.

 

[SundayRider]

Jalabert actually competed in the 2007 Ironman Hawaii World Championships, came past my dad on the bike section!

 

[Benotti69]

I bet Jens Voigt isn't to unhappy know that he didn't win that stage in 1998 but only finished second. Lucky escape I d say.

He may not have escaped.

"Held King of the Mountains Jersey Jersey polkadot.svg Stage 9 Tour de France"

Would that not put him in the testing pool?

 

[Bavarianrider]

He may not have escaped.

"Held King of the Mountains Jersey Jersey polkadot.svg Stage 9 Tour de France"

Would that not put him in the testing pool?

Oh great

However, i think not all tests were redone. So let's hope that his was.

 

[Benotti69]

Oh great

However, i think not all tests were redone. So let's hope that his was.

Yes, Jens has been a hypocrite for too long. His friendship with monkeymouth also makes me hope to see him get popped.

 

[Gregga]

I guess you know JVs comment of himself being + on days 1-3 and presumably most riders stopped using inside France.

It's also my impression that Lance and VDB are main resposibles for an immediate arms race after the '98 fallout.

LA, VDB, and don't forget the Rabo squad and the "peloton à 2 vitesses" story on Paris-Nice in 1999... Without them, Botero would have won

1. Michael Boogerd Rabobank en 36 h 04 min 13 s
2. Markus Zberg Rabobank + 57 s
3. Santiago Botero Kelme 1 min 38 s
4. Frank Vandenbroucke Cofidis 2 min 10 s
5. Marc Wauters Rabobank 2 min 13 s
6. Maarten den Bakker Rabobank 2 min 14 s

It's clear they broke the truce... if there was one.
(*) EDIT : just checked the Tirreno results in 1999, actually there was no truce, the GC is ugly !

Anyway, the Vuelta 1998 was very dirty too, 1 month after the tdf, which means the riders just considered the Festina affair as a "french problem"

 

[hrotha]

The brief truce only applied to the Tour, and only because of sheer terror, I think.

 

[Gregga]

The brief truce only applied to the Tour, and only because of sheer terror, I think.

Sure, you just have to look at the Vuelta GC in 99...

 

[andy1234]

out of 60 samples, that is 75%. A huge number. What is surprising is that reports back in 2005 did not report the same % of positives for the 98 samples.

Interesting to note that in 99 only 16 samples tested positive, 9 of them belonged to lance another 3 were from the Prologue....kind of kills the whole "Everyone was doing it" nonsense

There we go.
I knew your concern that Armstrong could use this to his advantage, was lurking somewhere.
98 or 99, the public wont care. they will just see a s**t load of riders were doing it.

 

[Race Radio]

There we go.
I knew your concern that Armstrong could use this to his advantage, was lurking somewhere.
98 or 99, the public wont care. they will just see a s**t load of riders were doing it.

Yeah, the public is stupid

Even the simplest fans can see that the positives doping dropped 50% in a year. Most can figure out that a huge percentage of the remaining positives belonged to one rider.

You are welcome to hope that nobody will care, but don't expect that to be the case. The public should not care that Jaja did drugs, they already know everyone was doping, but it was the lead story on the news here the last 2 nights in a row.

 

[roundabout]

LA, VDB, and don't forget the Rabo squad and the "peloton à 2 vitesses" story on Paris-Nice in 1999... Without them, Botero would have won

1. Michael Boogerd Rabobank en 36 h 04 min 13 s
2. Markus Zberg Rabobank + 57 s
3. Santiago Botero Kelme 1 min 38 s
4. Frank Vandenbroucke Cofidis 2 min 10 s
5. Marc Wauters Rabobank 2 min 13 s
6. Maarten den Bakker Rabobank 2 min 14 s

It's clear they broke the truce... if there was one.
(*) EDIT : just checked the Tirreno results in 1999, actually there was no truce, the GC is ugly !

Anyway, the Vuelta 1998 was very dirty too, 1 month after the tdf, which means the riders just considered the Festina affair as a "french problem"

They couldn't have been that dirty. No way a nobody like Zintchenko could win 3 stages (including arguably the toughest one) in a very dirty field.

 

[JRTinMA]

Yeah, the public does not like math.

Even the simplest fans can see that the positives doping dropped 50% in a year. Most can figure out that a huge percentage of the remaining positives belonged to one rider.

You are welcome to hope that nobody will care, but don't expect that to be the case. The public should not care that Jaja did drugs, they already know everyone was doping, but it was the lead story on the news here the last 2 nights in a row.

You are commenting on data you don't understand. Forget lance for a minute and think riders not samples in the new data. 33 are non determinant, not negative. It really didn't go down much from 98 to 99 but the dope to the gills mentality changed.

 

[hrotha]

They couldn't have been that dirty. No way a nobody like Zintchenko could win 3 stages (including arguably the toughest one) in a very dirty field.

Zintchenko was a veritable sputnik. Few teams had more hematocrit scares than Vitalicio.

 

[Race Radio]

You are commenting on data you don't understand. Forget lance for a minute and think riders not samples in the new data. 33 are non determinant, not negative. It really didn't go down much from 98 to 99 but the dope to the gills mentality changed.

Good luck with that.

The numbers confirm what most already knew. In 99 riders came into the race hot but few had the cajones to bring EPO into the country.....except one guy, who makes up the majority of the positives in the 3rd week.

The bigger question is who else is on the list? Pantani for sure but who else?

 

[andy1234]

Yeah, the public is stupid

Even the simplest fans can see that the positives doping dropped 50% in a year. Most can figure out that a huge percentage of the remaining positives belonged to one rider.

You are welcome to hope that nobody will care, but don't expect that to be the case. The public should not care that Jaja did drugs, they already know everyone was doping, but it was the lead story on the news here the last 2 nights in a row.

With respect, the man in the street will simply see "everyone" is doping, they probably won't even take a note of the year.

Also, i don't hope that no one will care, I want everyone to care.

I just want you to be honest about your reticence, in comparison to the joy in having Armstrong exposed.
Just because this might add credence to the Armstrong "everyone doing it" argument, is no reason to think that this sucks.

Like I have said a few times, the riders who have tested negative for EPO will come out of this with the respect and credibility that they deserve, and for that alone, it is a worthwhile exercise.

 

[Race Radio]

With respect, the man in the street will simply see "everyone" is doping, they probably won't even take a note of the year.

Also, i don't hope that no one will care, I want everyone to care.

I just want you to be honest about your reticence, in comparison to the joy in having Armstrong exposed.
Just because this might add credence to the Armstrong "everyone doing it" argument, is no reason to think that this sucks.

Like I have said a few times, the riders who have tested negative for EPO will come out of this with the respect and credibility that they deserve, and for that alone, it is a worthwhile exercise.

I have to ask, do you really not understand what I have written over and over or are you just trolling again? If you have comprehension issues then I will try to write more simply but if you are just writing this nonsense in order to get a response then I will just skip it

 

[andy1234]

I have to ask, do you really not understand what I have written over and over or are you just trolling again? If you have comprehension issues then I will try to write more simply but if you are just writing this nonsense in order to get a response then I will just skip it

I understand fine, It should be the doctors, the DSs etc INSTEAD of the riders.
That is what you wrote. Right?
Wrong. It should be both
It doesn't Suck . It's great

In the meantime, if someone is proven to have used EPO, it should be exposed, even if it doesn't have a significant effect in the anti doping race.
Why?
So that clean winners will possibly get the chance that they never had. A win that isn't tarnished by the fake results, of the doped riders of the time.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I understand fine, It should be the doctors, the DSs etc INSTEAD of the riders.
That is what you wrote. Right?
Wrong. It should be both
It doesn't Suck . It's great

In the meantime, if someone is proven to have used EPO, it should be exposed, even if it doesn't have a significant effect in the anti doping race.
Why?
So that clean winners will possibly get the chance that they never had. A win that isn't tarnished by the fake results, of the doped riders of the time.

Which could be done by naming these negative riders instead of naming the dopers. The dopers names will make the headlines, not the clean riders.

It's amusing to see you suggest that RR is focused on one rider when that is what you are doing. You acknowledge that this report will have no effect in anti-doping, but appear gleeful because it may show your fav rider was clean. You are entitled to that, but RR is correct to point out that it will be a wasted opportunity.

 

[Race Radio]

I understand fine,

Ok, so it is trolling then.

Thanks for answering

 

[andy1234]

Which could be done by naming these negative riders instead of naming the dopers. The dopers names will make the headlines, not the clean riders.

It's amusing to see you suggest that RR is focused on one rider when that is what you are doing. You acknowledge that this report will have no effect in anti-doping, but appear gleeful because it may show your fav rider was clean. You are entitled to that, but RR is correct to point out that it will be a wasted opportunity.

I didn't acknowledge that this report will have no effect.
I said "if".

To the bold, yes, I admit I do have an agenda, but it isn't for a favourite rider, simply for a rider I know to be clean.
Unfortunately my favourite riders have all been dopers......

I do however think that anyone who gets caught doping, should be identified, regardless of its usefulness to anti doping.
Only part of the opportunity may possibly be wasted, because the part that puts riders wins into context, negative or positive, is worthwhile.

 

[Race Radio]

I do however think that anyone who gets caught doping, should be identified, regardless of its usefulness to anti doping.

Who here is saying the riders should not be named?

 

[Race Radio]

yes, I admit I do have an agenda

Some might call it trolling

I do however think that anyone who gets caught doping, should be identified, regardless of its usefulness to anti doping.

Who is saying riders should not be identified?

 

[andy1234]

Some might call it trolling

Then I guess everyone here is trolling.

Who is saying riders should not be identified?

I interpret when someone says DSs and doctors should be indentified instead of riders, or that it sucks that this information is being made available, then they are not convinced that it is a good thing.

As you have stated, this is not your position, so we are clear.
I appreciate you clearing that up. I may well have been reading too much into your reasoning.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I didn't acknowledge that this report will have no effect.
I said "if".

There is no "if" - releasing the names only without going after the enablers has no effect on anti-doping.

I
To the bold, yes, I admit I do have an agenda, but it isn't for a favourite rider, simply for a rider I know to be clean.
Unfortunately my favourite riders have all been dopers......

I do however think that anyone who gets caught doping, should be identified, regardless of its usefulness to anti doping.
Only part of the opportunity may possibly be wasted, because the part that puts riders wins into context, negative or positive, is worthwhile.

Seriously, good luck with that. Unless you are that person I would not have total confidence in anyone, even some riders I know quite well.
I do genuinely hope that it does highlight clean riders and that your names rider is on that list.
But doping was a systematic problem, naming individual dopers is sensationalism, nothing to do with anti-doping.

 

[hrotha]

There is no "if" - releasing the names only without going after the enablers has no effect on anti-doping

I disagree. It will finally expose some players, which might trigger a domino effect which might lead to the enablers.