Jennie Longo pulls a Rasmussen

[joe_papp]

clarify

Ask yourself why. She didn't want it. The Federation didn't want it. This whole "investigation" was more BS.

If the French Federation did want to find out if JL doped they would have asked the Feds in the USA for the evidence parcel on Joe. But they probably knew already and probably had known for years. See post 178.

As so eloquently put by "Just some guy" - "no wonder this sport is in the toilet."

Curtain comes down. All actors exit right. LA's legal team will be whopping with delight.

Once again, Freddy the Frog shows himself to be smartly attuned to the context in which Longo's case was handled in France, something that her supporters are in total denial over, refuse to acknowledge or otherwise try to obfuscate.

Longo got off on a legal technicality and because the dominant faction in the FFC did not want to crucify both her and Ciprelli now. But they are ok with the idea of Longo retiring after the Olympics next year, no matter what happens to Ciprelli as a result of the ongoing FFC investigation.

My own expert on the matter wrote me 11 days ago to expect this result (though it still smarts to see Longo go free despite her committing what would've been anti-doping violation had she not had the special privilege of being French). He said then:

"I feel that FFC is ready to "kill" Ciprelli but she's [FFC] afraid about Longo, who is a very popular personn in France, closed to the President Sarkozy himself. They're trying now to let her finish her career at the Olympic Games...."

So Longo is cleared of an anti-doping violation based on whereabouts violations because of a technicality in French law. Bravo for her legal team. The case against Ciprelli continues. Oh, and to clarify, the FFC did receive all of the pertinent evidence along with a sworn affidavit - but this was not considered in deciding her guilt it would seem, a question that turned exclusively on the screw of a difference b/w French law and the rules we are subject to as athletes in registered anti-doping testing pools. As cyclingnews.com explained:

"At odds are the rules of the cycling federations and anti-doping agencies versus the laws of France. Under sporting regulations, Longo would have an open-ended inclusion for out-of-competition testing once an athlete has registered for the testing pool. Unless otherwise notified that an athlete has opted out of testing, then their eligibility would remain indefinitely.

French law, however, as of April, 2010, states that sporting federations in France need to notify an athlete every year that they're included in an out of competition anti-doping testing pool. Longo's lawyers argued that since she wasn't notified last year that she was still in the targeted group then the three missed tests are a moot point, a perspective accepted by the FFC disciplinary committee today."

Strange then that Longo WAS still submitting whereabouts if she didn't think she was in a testing pool. Those whereabouts must've been false ones...but irrelevant false ones in the end nonetheless.

Now if Ciprelli is exonerated, then I will join Landis out behind the car wash, because that would be just too much.

 

[hfer07]

I only have one question:
Is she ever going to "dare" to ride again after all this load of sh!t?

 

[cocteau_ireland]

why on earth would i replace it? if you get stuck,google it.

 

[poupou]

I only have one question:
Is she ever going to "dare" to ride again after all this load of sh!t?

That is the problem.

She will ride like did Armstrong, Valverde, Contador, ...
like are still playing the players of Barcelona,...
like are still playing Nadal, Gasquet,...
and so on

 

[Avoriaz]

munter?

Could you replace that with an english word? (or French, or Spanish)

Someone who fell out of the ugly tree, and presumably hit every branch on the way down

 

[L'arriviste]

Being a former lawyers' lackey, I still practise the art of remaining dispassionate about legal decisions, which enables me to accept that the intricacies often involved have very little to do with the emotive aspects of the matter.

In this way, an observation I had with regard to this very proper decision (from the strictly legal viewpoint) was that the Longo case illustrates the essential differences between the common and civil (i.e. Roman) legal traditions, each of which have their advantages and disadvantages.

For any users who might be interested in this, I'll explain something of those differences here, at the risk of either patronising or massively over-generalising what remains a very complex subject.

Outlining the differences

In the UK - my country of origin and the zone of my legal background - and many of the Anglophone jurisdictions (including US, CA and AU), common law decisionmaking sometimes goes beyond the written law and infers an implied notice or responsibility.

In this case, for example, Wildspoke Joe's comment above could apply - Longo must have known she was subject to the procedure, so therefore in the eyes of some common law decisionmakers, she would be.

More on the common law system

In the civil (or more properly Roman) tradition (applicable to France and many other European constitutional democracies and organisations, including CAS for example), the letter of the law is absolute and therefore further, binding documentation on compliance is issued which defines the business processes brought into effect. It is this latter situation which we have here.

More on the Roman law system

The outcomes: comme-ci comme ça

The common law approach has a certain amount of flexibility to try to arrive at a "best fit" solution which seems to suit the circumstances of the case. The danger is that the circumstances are not always properly illuminated by the evidence or else the decisionmaker could make a decision which is politically expedient.

The civil law approach is to follow the prescriptions of the written law and in order to protect its integrity and the rights of individuals, a very strict application is always required and, when a matter of procedure is at issue, this can even make other evidence irrelevant. The danger with that is that one may sometimes have the feeling that the "right" result was not achieved and that the written law appears to be inflexible and unfair.

It will be seen that both systems, throughout centuries of development and refinement, have their good and bad points, but the civil tradition applies here and according to its principles, the Longo result is the right one.

 

[zigmeister]

Once again, Freddy the Frog shows himself to be smartly attuned to the context in which Longo's case was handled in France, something that her supporters are in total denial over, refuse to acknowledge or otherwise try to obfuscate.

Longo got off on a legal technicality and because the dominant faction in the FFC did not want to crucify both her and Ciprelli now. But they are ok with the idea of Longo retiring after the Olympics next year, no matter what happens to Ciprelli as a result of the ongoing FFC investigation.

My own expert on the matter wrote me 11 days ago to expect this result (though it still smarts to see Longo go free despite her committing what would've been anti-doping violation had she not had the special privilege of being French). He said then:

"I feel that FFC is ready to "kill" Ciprelli but she's [FFC] afraid about Longo, who is a very popular personn in France, closed to the President Sarkozy himself. They're trying now to let her finish her career at the Olympic Games...."

So Longo is cleared of an anti-doping violation based on whereabouts violations because of a technicality in French law. Bravo for her legal team. The case against Ciprelli continues. Oh, and to clarify, the FFC did receive all of the pertinent evidence along with a sworn affidavit - but this was not considered in deciding her guilt it would seem, a question that turned exclusively on the screw of a difference b/w French law and the rules we are subject to as athletes in registered anti-doping testing pools. As cyclingnews.com explained:

"At odds are the rules of the cycling federations and anti-doping agencies versus the laws of France. Under sporting regulations, Longo would have an open-ended inclusion for out-of-competition testing once an athlete has registered for the testing pool. Unless otherwise notified that an athlete has opted out of testing, then their eligibility would remain indefinitely.

French law, however, as of April, 2010, states that sporting federations in France need to notify an athlete every year that they're included in an out of competition anti-doping testing pool. Longo's lawyers argued that since she wasn't notified last year that she was still in the targeted group then the three missed tests are a moot point, a perspective accepted by the FFC disciplinary committee today."

Strange then that Longo WAS still submitting whereabouts if she didn't think she was in a testing pool. Those whereabouts must've been false ones...but irrelevant false ones in the end nonetheless.

Now if Ciprelli is exonerated, then I will join Landis out behind the car wash, because that would be just too much.

Sounds like someone is bitter and jealous they didn't get off on a legal technicality like Longo?

The rules state she needed to be notified yes or no? The answer is yes. Irrelevant whether she was submitting her whereabouts.

The rules don't state, "the Federation must notify the rider in writing...blah...but if the rider is still submitting there whereabout, well, wait a second, then they are still part of the testing process."

Right. If only your legal case was so simple.

I've said it before on here Joe, I wish you the best. But, you knowingly did something that was illegal in the good ole' USA. Sold EPO imported into the US to people. Pretty clear, nothing to debate here right?

Good luck, so far things have gone in your favor somewhat as far as leniency now that you are on your anti-doping crusade and operation cooperation (post-mortum).

 

[Cloxxki]

Should an Olympic hopeful not be expected to correct any mistakes or omissions by national bureaus pro-actively, rather than take an extra long holiday?
Has a precedent been created? Can The French now forget to tell other superstars that they're in the testing pool, and thus let them take more relaxed holidays unavailable to testers?

 

[Benotti69]

Should an Olympic hopeful not be expected to correct any mistakes or omissions by national bureaus pro-actively, rather than take an extra long holiday?
Has a precedent been created? Can The French now forget to tell other superstars that they're in the testing pool, and thus let them take more relaxed holidays unavailable to testers?

I wonder have half of the French pros suddenly become allergic to technological communication equipment and are now planning training camps in some of more remote parts of the world....

 

[fatandfast]

That is the problem.

She will ride like did Armstrong, Valverde, Contador, ...
like are still playing the players of Barcelona,...
like are still playing Nadal, Gasquet,...
and so on

If the federation wanted to solve the problem it would have taken action. The national teams are not very big for all the disciplines. For lots of Longo's career she has been on the national team for track, road and TT so knowing where she is and her condition would appear to be important. If an alternate was called up it has to be done before the starting line as part of the rules.

As Papp pointed out the case against Ciprelli is ongoing, where it's to going is still up in the air. The US and French officials have very different motivations and budget concerns. If Ciperlli is to help complete the complicated mosaic of case that Novotizky has been spending 100s of thousands on he may not be the right fit, given extradition would be unlikely. Because the French are just starting with the case against him they do not have the mountains of time and cash invested in the case and may choose to go on to bigger and better things. The smoking gun's smoke only carriers so far and many prosecutors and federations are not as passionate as they are in the US.

It will be tricky for the FFC, whatever long term appeal that Longo can lend to the organization will be toasted if they go after her,going after her is going after a large part of themselves. She is an ambassador for women's sports and will be held up as what can happen into middle age. Middle age is the growth group in most federations

 

[gillan1969]

munter?

Could you replace that with an english word? (or French, or Spanish)

ahhhh....so its cocteau_ireland that carly simon was singing about...now we know

 

[Freddythefrog]

I need more legal advice

Being a former lawyers' lackey, I still practise the art of remaining dispassionate about legal decisions, which enables me to accept that the intricacies often involved ......

..... but the civil tradition applies here and according to its principles, the Longo result is the right one.

I was losing my compass here, so it was fortunate I was able to turn to a useful guide. I commend it to you all. Transnational Litigation: Jurisdiction and Procedure ISBN 9781858004907, published by Round Hall Press.

The author is Michelle Smith.

Michelle should know. She has the badge. There was a time in her life when, just like Longo, she had Presidents on her side. Have a look - http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Clinton+backs+swim+star+Michelle.-a061273754

But just like Longo, she needed the letter of the law. Only that could bring her rightious soul to redemption.


The similarity does not end there ! Fancy. Just Like Longo, she seems to have struck bad luck in choice of life partner. Will Ciprelli end up like Eric de Bruin? He served a four year ban for testing positive to testosterone. Those bad boys - didn't they think what they were doing ! How unfortunate.

Well, even to this day our darling Michelle refutes any charge of using PEDs. Those 3 Olympic gold medals were all down to fruit juice, fresh country air, and a good rest every night. After all, she never tested positive did she. Only evil nasty horrible people cast slurs. Innocent until proven guilty. It is an abso l u t e truth.

Quite right Saint Michelle. You tell them. (Good job that bottle of whiskey was to hand. That made sure those tests of that sample could not detect anything other than what % proof it was !)

Now if they could only solve that strange mystery of just who them nasty pests were who put the whiskey in your sample. Then we would be getting somewhere....

 

[Benotti69]

I was losing my compass here so it was fortunate I was able to turn to a useful guide. I commend it to you all. Transnational Litigation: Jurisdiction and Procedure ISBN 9781858004907, published by Round Hall Press.

The author is Michelle Smith.

Michelle should know. She has the badge. There was a time in her life when, just like Longo, she had Presidents on her side. Have a look - http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Clinton+backs+swim+star+Michelle.-a061273754

But just like Longo, she needed the letter of the law. Only that could bring her rightious soul to redemption.

The similarity does not end there ! Fancy. Just Like Longo, she seems to have struck bad luck in choice of life partner. Will Ciprelli end up like Eric de Bruin? He served a four year ban for testing positive to testosterone. Those bad boys - didn't they think what they were doing ! How unfortunate.

Well, even to this day our darling Michelle refutes any charge of using PEDs. Those 3 Olympic gold medals were all down to fruit juice, fresh country air, and a good rest every night. After all, she never tested positive did she. Only evil nasty horrible people cast slurs. Innocent until proven guilty. It is an abso l u t e truth.

Quite right Saint Michelle. You tell them. (Good job that bottle of whiskey was to hand. That made sure those tests of that sample could not detect anything other than what % proof it was !)

Now if they could only solve that strange mystery of just who them nasty pests were who put the whiskey in your sample. Then we would be getting somewhere....

Very interesting the case of Michelle Smith and how the Irish media ignored her previous results and how she came from nowhere till Walsh, Kimmage and a guy called Humphries questioned it. Then the media and country turned on these 3 journalists.

 

[Freddythefrog]

AFLD closes Longo case with no action

Case closed - no action.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/afld-closes-longo-case-with-no-action

As FATANDFAST wrote, going after Longo would result in the French Fed exposing their past behaviour to ridicule. It was not going to happen. So another case is swept under the carpet. Ciprelli and his purchase of EPO from Papp maybe another matter, but it might be that the Fed just hit the "too difficult" button and let the pair walk into the sunset together.

Ciprellli can't hold the gun to their head like she could, "do me and I tell on you", because to expose them would be to expose that Longo had tested positive and it had been hidden from view in the past, whereas at the current time her position is identical to Saint Michele - never tested positive. So if they were to go after him, he would have to do his time in silence. But I just don't think they have the stomach for any of it. A burning Ciprellli gets the smoke too close to the interwoven entities of the Longo legacy and past inadequacies of the French Fed. "Let him walk" is my prognosis for French action, or rather "inaction".

Looking elsewhere, I am struggling to understand where any American enforcement agency would obtain jurisdiction to be able to bring Ciprelli to account. So, up there, on the podium with Lance, will be the most decorated and high achieving female cyclist ever. All following will stand in her shadow and probably more so, because so few understand the implications of what Joe has shared with the Feds and us here, whereas at least you have to be an imbecile to contemplate Lance won clean, given all the press coverage.

How seriously do I want to be proved completely wrong? You can have no idea.

 

[avanti]

Sounds like the French Fed is as screwed up as other feds.

 

[frenchfry]

Longo got off on a technicality so she was lucky. It might not be easy to keep someone like her on the whereabouts list as she doesn't do a regular season so her status might not always be clear.

For me the Ciprelli EPO purchase is much more damaging for her credibility. It is now certain that she used PEDs to achieve her results. Rather pathetic really.

 

[Benotti69]

Longo got off on a technicality so she was lucky. It might not be easy to keep someone like her on the whereabouts list as she doesn't do a regular season so her status might not always be clear.

For me the Ciprelli EPO purchase is much more damaging for her credibility. It is now certain that she used PEDs to achieve her results. Rather pathetic really.

For me it was always certain that she used PEDs.

 

[joe_papp]

furious

Longo got off on a technicality so she was lucky. It might not be easy to keep someone like her on the whereabouts list as she doesn't do a regular season so her status might not always be clear.

For me the Ciprelli EPO purchase is much more damaging for her credibility. It is now certain that she used PEDs to achieve her results. Rather pathetic really.

As you note, it was a technicality. And a disgusting one at that. Lost in the shuffle seems to be the fact that for the third alleged whereabouts violation, USADA attempted to test her at the LOCATION SHE REPORTED IN HER WHEREABOUTS FILING FOR THAT DAY! She was actively submitting (False) whereabouts information at the time of the alleged third violation - and yet her lawyers claim she didn't know or she wasn't in the RTP? Then WHY was she submitting admittedly false whereabouts for the day in question?!?

 

[poupou]

As you note, it was a technicality. And a disgusting one at that. Lost in the shuffle seems to be the fact that for the third alleged whereabouts violation, USADA attempted to test her at the LOCATION SHE REPORTED IN HER WHEREABOUTS FILING FOR THAT DAY! She was actively submitting (False) whereabouts information at the time of the alleged third violation - and yet her lawyers claim she didn't know or she wasn't in the RTP? Then WHY was she submitting admittedly false whereabouts for the day in question?!?

That is the difference between roman system law and english law. The fist has to follow "the letter", not the spirit.

 

[Freddythefrog]

As you note, it was a technicality. And a disgusting one at that. Lost in the shuffle seems to be the fact that for the third alleged whereabouts violation, USADA attempted to test her at the LOCATION SHE REPORTED IN HER WHEREABOUTS FILING FOR THAT DAY! She was actively submitting (False) whereabouts information at the time of the alleged third violation - and yet her lawyers claim she didn't know or she wasn't in the RTP? Then WHY was she submitting admittedly false whereabouts for the day in question?!?

Thanks Joe. Unambiguous.

Using the "letter" allows the cowards at the top take the coin they receive for being the "bastion of standards" and yet walk from their responsibilities.

 

[joe_papp]

For me it was always certain that she used PEDs.

I'd always suspected it, and of course came to have it confirmed in very real terms - and not just through my dealings with her husband. Knowing what USADA faced when trying to test her provided almost-unassailable confirmation of her shaddiness independent of her spouse's efforts to source EPO for her.

That is the difference between roman system law and english law. The fist has to follow "the letter", not the spirit.

Fair enough, but...

Thanks Joe. Unambiguous.

Using the "letter" allows the cowards at the top take the coin they receive for being the "bastion of standards" and yet walk from their responsibilities.

Nauseating and reprehensible nonetheless. I hope it's not etched out of Longo's career-history that her husband was revealed as the one who bought her EPO for her, and that she escaped punishment on her last doping violation only because her ill-gotten winnings allowed her to hire extremely effective lawyers lol...

FtF: can you speak to Longo's other doping violation(s)? Those from earlier in her career (pre-WADA)?

 

[skippy]

My blogs are full of requests for the " Authorities " to enforce a 4 year ban on those " Convicted " of doping ! I have suggested that imprisonment in " their home " with the cuff would be better than the community paying for their incarceration !
Included i also asked that the miscreant be " Cut off " from ALL involvement in Sport at any level be it employment in the sport , media or even crying on these forums ! Who wants to hear a convicted " nonentity " *****iong about the " unfairness " of their being caught and hung out to dry for whatever priod whilst those they associated with continue aS THEY CLAIM to enjoy their sporting career !

Twitter asked me to follow a certain felon AND i would prefer to stop using twitter and this forum rather than suffer their company !

Life is about being positive not about looking for all the bad news to make us feel good !

Hope those that are being maligned in these forums enjoy a festive season full of cheer whilst the malignant gring their teeth !

 

[Christian]

Just saw it on the news - Jeannie Longo's home searched by police and husband Ciprelli placed under provisional arrest

http://www.cyclismactu.net/news-dopage-ciprelli-place-en-garde-a-vue-longo-temoin-22204.html

The husband is suspected to have bought EPO at least 5 times in 2010 and 2011. There seem to be numerous witnesses, such as Longo's old rival Edwige Pittel, trained by Ciprelli in 2007. Bruno Gevenois and Robert Bertrand, members of AFLD, as well as Alain Dallenbach, husband of the controversial former cyclist Chantal Dallenbach.

L'Equipe claims that the director of the french cross-country ski team Michel Lucatelli, best friend of Ciprelli, could be in serious trouble for picking up a dubious package several months ago. The same counts for Ciprelli's mother Yvonne, whose e-mail adress figured among those who exchanged mails with Joe Papp in 2007.

 

[Le breton]

Just saw it on the news - Jeannie Longo's home searched by police and husband Ciprelli placed under provisional arrest

http://www.cyclismactu.net/news-dopage-ciprelli-place-en-garde-a-vue-longo-temoin-22204.html

The husband is suspected to have bought EPO at least 5 times in 2010 and 2011. There seem to be numerous witnesses, such as Longo's old rival Edwige Pittel, trained by Ciprelli in 2007. Bruno Gevenois and Robert Bertrand, members of AFLD, as well as Alain Dallenbach, husband of the controversial former cyclist Chantal Dallenbach.

L'Equipe claims that the director of the french cross-country ski team Michel Lucatelli, best friend of Ciprelli, could be in serious trouble for picking up a dubious package several months ago. The same counts for Ciprelli's mother Yvonne, whose e-mail adress figured among those who exchanged mails with Joe Papp in 2007.

On L'Equipe's website there is a better account of the news.
(Chantal Dallenbach was not a cyclist but a marathoner)

Depuis le début de l'enquête, plusieurs personnes ont été entendues dans la plus grande discrétion: en premier lieu, Edwige Pittel, que Ciprelli a entraînée en 2007 et qui a aussi été sa compagne. La cycliste, rivale de Longo, a été entendue durant sept heures, en deux épisodes, et sa responsabilité aurait été totalement écartée.

Well, since L'equipe now makes it official that Ciprelli and Pitel were in a relationship ( Ciprelli and Longo have very recently gotten back together), I see even more reasons to believe that Ciprelli's acquisition of Eposino via joe Papp in 2007 was intended for Pitel (who beat Longo that year in the French national TT).

The statute of limitation for a 2007 transaction would mean that nobody could really be sued in France on that matter.

The article suspects that recently Ciprelli acquired Eprex! Actually before getting back with Longo, up to May 2011. It's hard to imagine Longo taking a 1st generation EPO with all the implied risks of detection in a test, but who knows....

So, the article raises many questions,... let's wait and see

 

[frenchfry]

Here is the link to the l'équipe report:

http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme-sur-route/Actualites/Ciprelli-interpelle-longo-temoin/261920

Interesting to note that Ciprelli is employed by the French Sports ministry. That surprises me.

One error in the article is the reference to Joe Papp as a “trafficker”, shouldn't that be "ex-trafficker"?

Once again, I just find this whole situation incredibly pathetic. These people should get a life.