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Joe Papp receives eight-year suspension from USADA

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Polish

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If it turns out that Lance was dealing EPO over the interwebs to anonymous buyers I will be truly disappointed.
Would no longer be a fanboy, sorry.
"Ask you parents permission before purchasing" is a bunch of BS.
Who would ask their parents? How do you check?

There are probably impressionable young jocks who BELIEVE the numbnuts preaching that "EPO will transform you".
Yes, some kids will believe anything. Stupids.
 
Oct 8, 2011
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Polish said:
If it turns out that Lance was dealing EPO over the interwebs to anonymous buyers I will be truly disappointed.
Would no longer be a fanboy, sorry.
"Ask you parents permission before purchasing" is a bunch of BS.
Who would ask their parents? How do you check?

There are probably impressionable young jocks who BELIEVE the numbnuts preaching that "EPO will transform you".
Yes, some kids will believe anything. Stupids.

You must be one of those "stupid" kids then.
 
Jul 14, 2009
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Mambo95 said:
Similarly, some of those that want Armstrong and others metaphorically crucified for using, have wanted Joe Papp to get a free pass for his drug dealing just because he tells them what they want to hear on the internet.

Hypocrisy isn't a one way street.

Anybody American knows that jails/prisons don't do shjt. Lock people up for a crime and that is their life's work. Putting people in cages for a lifetime is an answer to zip.

Anybody who knows bike racing knows that guys get B12,antibiotics, blood for pre and post effort tests without a doctor's supervision. Needles in and out of your rear as a normal routine. The fact that dozens or hundreds of racers find that the helpful needle that somebody else sticks in your a$$ can also be done for all the wrong motivations .

Papp is a guy who used whatever he could to stay in the game, the outcome is history. When he found out the reality that most racers don't have a dime, live on sofas and air mattresses as a norm he made another stupid decision to try and exploit the unknown and unobserved dream of other racers.Give them the special sauce.
Everybody will get what they deserve. Fame for the wrong reason, no money after it's over and the bitterness that made them chase the dream. Papp's real punishment is reading all the cycling mags of the super riders w exotic cars, villas and cash to toss around, knowing that for 99% of racers it's also a dream gone unrealized. I have ragged on Landis and Hamilton but in reality they are doing better than most of the other ex pro racers

From Lance down, prison is not the answer.Maybe 5 years salary, Armstrong, Papp, Landis, Vick, whoever if they don't pay then cage them. Love to see the elite signing over paychecks to the protesters or school teachers. Please send us a figure equal to or greater to you 5 year average on your W2.
 
Jul 25, 2009
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I'm happy that Joe's sentence doesn't include jail time. It must have been horrible waiting in limbo for sentencing.

Sentencing delays due to other cases, followed by a lenient sentence, suggests Joe might have shared some valuable "insights".
 
Sep 25, 2009
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people make mistakes, sometimes very serious mistakes. what’s important is to learn from them.

i never met joe, so I can’t speak of his personality or character. but it’s rather obvious from his extended contributions here, as someone has already noted upthread , joe is and intelligent chap endowed with more than legs for cycling.

in my book the capacity for learning has always been the primary sign of innate intelligence. learning from own mistakes and succeeding requires both intelligence and strong character.

my sincere suggestion to joe is to try to seize the golden opportunity afforded by the lenient sentence, reflect deeply (if joe hasn’t done so already) and try rebuild that second ingredient.
 
Jul 23, 2009
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Sentencing is supposed to punish the crime and, among other things, act as a deterrent to others. I think that has been accomplished for the most part. A fine would have been appropriate, but as Doc wrote it might have been a case of trying to extract blood from a stone. Jail is not appropriate in this case, the crimes do not justify the cost to society of incarcerating a man. Papp will have a chance to pick himself up and start again, this time making better choices, which is the effect you hope the justice system will have.
 
Mar 15, 2009
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lean said:
while i mostly agree with your characterization of joe, and i'll add that his posts aren't very informative and his language a little too crude for my tastes, how long are you going to stay angry at someone so insignificant? he did some idiotic and selfish things but he's been chewed up and spit out by the system and his name is now a punchline. why waste another day or even another second of your life being angry?

OK, fair point.
You responded accurately and fairly.

Yes, I am angry. I will go to my 12 step anger management program. No more tantrums. If you read about something on the internet, its one thing.

I cannot say more about why I am so angry, no cloak and dagger, just protecting my friends.

There were a lot of folks, some of whom were young and impressionable who saw up close this whole things unravel--lets just say, the next generation of riders kinda thing.
Makes me very sad.
Thats all.
 
Mar 15, 2009
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Neworld said:
Well it wasn't a bad thing, and he made a decision to stop lying when confronted by authorities which is not happening with LA.

Don't throw stones in a glass house mate. You don't know what LA is about to do, he could very well rat on his corrupt business associates and former teammates, giving up their names. Using your schoolyard logic what would that make LA? You decide.


NW

He made a decision to stop lying when the feds knocked on his door and had reams and reams of data indicating he was selling illegal PEDs on the internet. They had a water tight case. He had no alternative.

And lets recall, he turned to selling PEDs on the internet AFTER receiving an AAF and getting banned.
repeat: AFTER.
How is that for a supposed change of heart?

I think the real story is quite sad, I am sure there is a huge personal and actually tormented personal story Joe has to tell--human to human I find this very sad. But his self-destructive behavior in using and abusing PEDs morphed into essentially entrapping Venus FLy like dozens of hopeless striving wannabees and a few real cyclists...this is really sooo wrong on so many levels.

THis is a minor deal in the big picture of PEDs.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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davestoller said:
He made a decision to stop lying when the feds knocked on his door and had reams and reams of data indicating he was selling illegal PEDs on the internet. They had a water tight case. He had no alternative.

And lets recall, he turned to selling PEDs on the internet AFTER receiving an AAF and getting banned.
repeat: AFTER.
How is that for a supposed change of heart?

I think the real story is quite sad, I am sure there is a huge personal and actually tormented personal story Joe has to tell--human to human I find this very sad. But his self-destructive behavior in using and abusing PEDs morphed into essentially entrapping Venus FLy like dozens of hopeless striving wannabees and a few real cyclists...this is really sooo wrong on so many levels.

THis is a minor deal in the big picture of PEDs.

You are right, Bruyneel is a far bigger deal. Ferrari is bigger then both. Where is your vitriol for them?
 
Oct 25, 2010
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How soon that people forget that 15 years ago, Wunderboy was behaving just like Mr. Papp in regards to making "illegal arrangements" (except he already had a rainbow jersey hanging in his closet). Wunderboy understood the bigger picture of wealth. He was lining his pockets in both racing and distribution.
 
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Race Radio said:
You are right, Bruyneel is a far bigger deal. Ferrari is bigger then both. Where is your vitriol for them?

I was thinking of the NFL refusing to test for GH--millions and millions of dollars being made at the expense of the health of the athletes. If they werent so jacked, we wouldnt be having the rate of head injury.

The refusal of FIFA to do more comprehensive testing of THE biggest sport globally for EPO, GH and other performance enhancing.

THis one person whom you hate, is one athlete, in the smallest sport.
Get over yourself.
You are on a mission to destroy and hate.
You are really simply trolling and not worthy of respect or answer.
 
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davestoller said:
OK, fair point.
You responded accurately and fairly.

Yes, I am angry. I will go to my 12 step anger management program. No more tantrums. If you read about something on the internet, its one thing.

I cannot say more about why I am so angry, no cloak and dagger, just protecting my friends.
There were a lot of folks, some of whom were young and impressionable who saw up close this whole things unravel--lets just say, the next generation of riders kinda thing.
Makes me very sad.
Thats all.


Were you sad in 1988 when the "next generation of riders" were confronted with the same, only it was driven and controlled by coaches at USAC instead of a random guy with a computer and some shady connections?

What are you protecting your friends from? Serious question...
 
Oct 25, 2010
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spetsa said:
[/B]

Were you sad in 1988 when the "next generation of riders" were confronted with the same, only it was driven and controlled by coaches at USAC instead of a random guy with a computer and some shady connections?

What are you protecting your friends from? Serious question...

The modern problem predates the "Carmichael era" of 1988. Eddie B / Ed Burke / Frizz-ee (ca. 1984) demonstrated that they did not believe in fair play. They believed in winning. Period. They (in-turn) trained the next generation and they trained it well. Wunderboy came of age as the torch was being passed. He saw the old school in motion and helped optimize (and mature) the new school.
 
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davestoller said:
"I was thinking of the NFL refusing to test for GH--millions and millions of dollars being made at the expense of the health of the athletes. If they werent so jacked, we wouldnt be having the rate of head injury." Just to correct that some, the NFLPA did not want the testing done, as they are a union and it has to be approved by the players. The NFL does want to test, just not the players...they enjoy their millions. I don't want any testing in the NFL either, let them become the incredible hulk for all I care. Make for a great Sunday show, I would bet most in the US would agree with me.
 
Mar 15, 2009
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BotanyBay said:
The modern problem predates the "Carmichael era" of 1988. Eddie B / Ed Burke / Frizz-ee (ca. 1984) demonstrated that they did not believe in fair play. They believed in winning. Period. They (in-turn) trained the next generation and they trained it well. Wunderboy came of age as the torch was being passed. He saw the old school in motion and helped optimize (and mature) the new school.

You have your history totally wrong.

LA et al ditched Eddy B et al and Subaru and went another direction.

"And that has made all the difference..."
 
Aug 13, 2009
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davestoller said:
I was thinking of the NFL refusing to test for GH--millions and millions of dollars being made at the expense of the health of the athletes. If they werent so jacked, we wouldnt be having the rate of head injury.

The refusal of FIFA to do more comprehensive testing of THE biggest sport globally for EPO, GH and other performance enhancing.

THis one person whom you hate, is one athlete, in the smallest sport.
Get over yourself.
You are on a mission to destroy and hate.
You are really simply trolling and not worthy of respect or answer.

You do realize this is a cycling forum right? The title is CYCLINGnews. You should not expect to find many here interested in discussing the NFL or FIFA's testing stats. You are welcome to pretend this is the case, but it is not.

Given that this is a cycling forum my question remains. Why is it you direct so much vitriol at Joe while consistently excusing the far larger doping machine run by Brunyeel, Ferrari, and their buddies?

Are you on a mission to destroy and hate?
You are really simply trolling and not worthy of respect or answer?
 
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pedaling squares said:
Sentencing is supposed to punish the crime and, among other things, act as a deterrent to others. I think that has been accomplished for the most part. A fine would have been appropriate, but as Doc wrote it might have been a case of trying to extract blood from a stone. Jail is not appropriate in this case, the crimes do not justify the cost to society of incarcerating a man. Papp will have a chance to pick himself up and start again, this time making better choices, which is the effect you hope the justice system will have.

+1. Very well said.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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davestoller said:
You have your history totally wrong.

LA et al ditched Eddy B et al and Subaru and went another direction.

"And that has made all the difference..."

Make an actual point. Either you're saying LA was clean and wanted to stay clean, or that he was dirty and wanted to "go clean", or that EB was clean and LA wanted to BE dirty.

If there is one thing I know (and know well) it is 1980's USCF doping history. I know who did what (and when).

EB likes to cling to the notion that the only "hanky-panky" revolved around some blood transfusions at the Carson Motel-6 in 1984. The namesake of this thread can tell you different.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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Race Radio said:
Given that this is a cycling forum my question remains. Why is it you direct so much vitriol at Joe while consistently excusing the far larger doping machine run by Brunyeel, Ferrari, and their buddies?QUOTE]

Oh c'mon Race, Joe "Spit in the soup" ;)
 
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I don't think that much would have been achieved by putting Joe Papp in prison so I'm glad that he's escaped a custodial sentence. I hope that he can put his freedom to good use. His tale is a cautionary one for young aspiring cyclists so perhaps he'll talk to that group with a view to keeping them from making the same mistakes he did.

Similarly I hope that he's given USADA and/or WADA the full details of how he set up his doping business so those agencies can take whatever steps they can to make it more difficult for others to do the same.

Were his customers victims? Maybe. However, they made the choice to cheat so I believe that they have to take some responsibility for their actions.

Joe Papp's actions from now on will show exactly what he has learned from his experience.
 
AngusW said:
I don't think that much would have been achieved by putting Joe Papp in prison so I'm glad that he's escaped a custodial sentence. I hope that he can put his freedom to good use. His tale is a cautionary one for young aspiring cyclists so perhaps he'll talk to that group with a view to keeping them from making the same mistakes he did.

Similarly I hope that he's given USADA and/or WADA the full details of how he set up his doping business so those agencies can take whatever steps they can to make it more difficult for others to do the same.

Were his customers victims? Maybe. However, they made the choice to cheat so I believe that they have to take some responsibility for their actions.

Joe Papp's actions from now on will show exactly what he has learned from his experience.

Well said...Christ knows we've all made mistakes. The only reason I got angry with him was due to the timing of him testifying etc against Floyd. However I wish him well in his future. In fairness to him, he has paid and is paying, a far greater price than most.
 
Mar 15, 2009
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BotanyBay said:
Make an actual point. Either you're saying LA was clean and wanted to stay clean, or that he was dirty and wanted to "go clean", or that EB was clean and LA wanted to BE dirty.

If there is one thing I know (and know well) it is 1980's USCF doping history. I know who did what (and when).

EB likes to cling to the notion that the only "hanky-panky" revolved around some blood transfusions at the Carson Motel-6 in 1984. The namesake of this thread can tell you different.

Well, maybe you should be talking to people then if you know the real inside story. But lets see, who covered up or ignored, or walked away from that mess...and what have all those heroes been doing since. Last time I checked, running USA cycling and the major players and teams. And ditching Eddy B and his group...because it was politically convenient.

If EB imported some old school technology from th eEastern Bloc, he, like the arms race that was still going on between USA and Soviet Union, was trying to stay one step ahead. Right? Everybody, EVERYBODY has been caught up in that game. Ever since and before.

Funny how Eddy's success plan from the 80s ended up being used by the guys who threw him under the bus to win the Tour de Freance 7 times! Do you not see any irony here at all?

As for the namesake of this thread, he knows no more or less than any other rider who ascends into the lower ranks of real cycling.

But he does know one thing from Eddy B, as Eddy always said:

" You pay what you get for!"

I am sure Joe will have lots of time to ponder those telling words.
How true, how true.