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I don't like either Joe Papp or Lance Armstrong - both are cheats. Yet on this forum, one is the antichrist and the other a hero? I really don't see why JP is given a pass just because he tells you lot what they want to hear.
Let's see how much anti doping campaning he does now that he's got his verdict.
He's played you chumps like a cheap violin. All Papp cares about is Papp.
Let's see how much anti doping campaning he does now that he's got his verdict.
He's played you chumps like a cheap violin. All Papp cares about is Papp.
Dr. Maserati
BANNED
That would be a good point - except for the small fact that you will be unable to name any posters who think JP is a "hero" and think LA is the Anti-christ.Mambo95 said:
JP doped, he sold dope - he was caught and has been punished.
I look forward to LA having to do the same.
Why would he have to do any anti-doping?Mambo95 said:
(In fact if he does he will be accused of profiting from it or stroking his ego).
As long as he has given as much information that he had to both USADA and the Feds then there is nothing else he can be asked to offer.
Mambo95 said:
I have never said Papp is a hero. Not even close. I have pointed out the many of the same people who take shots at him are the same people who are constantly coming up with an excuse for the actions of Brunyeel/Lance/Ferrari
Race Radio said:
Bruyneel/Armstrong/Ferrari and those USA Cycling Masters racers caught for MHRT (geez, that really is a stupid trend that ruined the Masters race scene) are hated because they are unrepentant "1%'ers". All the rest of the known dopers, which makes up are large percentage of the top professionals who have won or win consistently, are forgiven because they are considered one of "us". Us = commoners who fight, struggle, stress, pay off student loans, etc., to make a living. The hypocrisy is humorous.
Mambo95 said:
I don't agree with your reduction of Papp vs. Wonderboy. Lots of mixed opinions on the Papp situation, mine included. Wonderboy's actions are epic in comparison. Nighttrain's comment is a similar fail.
The reality in Papp's case is he did some right things calculating the effect it would have on any sentencing for a long history of doing many wrongs. If he tries to leave cycling (IMHO he should) the criminal record is an anchor around his waist in trying to secure some semblance of a normal life.
12 step might be good for him.
Eddy B imported blood dopingfrom the Soviet block for the now infamous '84 US Olympic cycling teams. it was legal BTW.Race Radio said:
Other famous athletes have been accused of using blood doping, right? The people whomfound it convenient to throw Eddy and his group under the bus in the wake if the 84 scandal, are associated with riders who have been accused of doing so. Like the guy who win the Tour 7 times.
A lot of those people are now running USA Cycling, and were fanboys of The Antichrist, his entourage etc. now do you get it?
Eddy' quote: you pay what you get for, seems quite particularly apt for Joe Papp.
BotanyBay said:
I will try to find a link, but wasn't a certian director of a current US Pro team, which by the way has had the largest number of doping positives of any in the same demographic, who was an 84 Olympian, who had a father in law that was an MD that helped him experiment, a major mastermind of the whole '84 scandal? Danny Van Haute, Jelly Belly...Ring a bell?
Found the link that I thought I remembered.....
http://www.stanford.edu/~learnest/cyclops/dopes.htm
How did this go from Papp, to Eddy B?
A bit surprised that Joe managed to escape a prison term, but I'm happy for him, and felt tossing him in a jail cell would do no real good. I just hope that now he has gotten a second chance, we will truly and forever see the anti-doping advocate he has shown himself to be at times. Because that's what he's going to have to do for the rest of his life in order to build up enough trust in most fans of this too often rotting sport, and I think for his soul as well.
A bit surprised that Joe managed to escape a prison term, but I'm happy for him, and felt tossing him in a jail cell would do no real good. I just hope that now he has gotten a second chance, we will truly and forever see the anti-doping advocate he has shown himself to be at times. Because that's what he's going to have to do for the rest of his life in order to build up enough trust in most fans of this too often rotting sport, and I think for his soul as well.
Alpe d'Huez said:
+1. I liked PSs post upthread as it succintly said what the justic system is supposed to do. We often lose sight of that....ala punishment for punishment's sake...
nighttrain said:
It's strange. I see this all the time on discussion forums.
And it's usually fron rightwing nutjobs.
But you people just make things up. You invent a whole category of opponents who don't exist, but you convince yourself are there to be hated, and then howl into the void against them.
Alpe d'Huez said:
He escaped jail because he cooperated, preumably to avoid jail. Hardly an advocate more expedient for him really. What role does he have in cycling? Reformed drug taker; there are already enough of them working for pro teams, dont see why there is a need for more. Not sure what I miss here, but why is a retired doped pro who had no results of note getting so much pres coverage. retrain, go get a job and be productive.
Because of what he knows and the information dump he gave to the US Attorney and USADA.FignonLeGrand said:
Good reading. First time that I read something complete on the subject.spetsa said:
Off topic of course.
As for the Joe Papp topic, I don't know why some forumites keep comparing him against Armstrong. One already seems to be repentant, the other one not quite there.
thehog
BANNED
Escarabajo said:
Papp was interviewed some months ago in relation to Armstrong. He was very supportive that Lance should not go to jail. He said he knows some of what Armstrong was involved in but went on to say that in the late 90’s cycling was a doping arms race. If you didn’t keep medically up you’d get blown out of the water. Not sure I agree with all of it but I do understand the part of jail. Wishing Armstrong going to jail is harsh – we shouldn’t wish jail upon anyone. This was always Floyd’s problem. Knowing what he knew it was always going to result in a criminal investigation for Lance. In some ways Floyd was the protector – the part Armstrong missed was taking care of old friends. He should have hired Floyd into Radioshack but instead strung him along. McQuaid didn’t like the idea and it all went nuclear.
I am glad that Joe was not sent to jail. I hope he is able to find a job and move forward with his life. The past is the past and all he can do is live life the right way and set an example from this time forward. Good luck to Joe in the future.
thehog
BANNED
thehog said:
HAHA Hog. I am not sure if you’re insinuating that I am not sincere?(Please clarify?) At any rate Joe knows me and HE knows I am sincere with my post.
I really do not care what you hope for Lance. I also have no investment into what happens with him either.
He may have thought just a bit too long about cooperation with authorities. papp tested his luck, Lance tested his infinite lobbying power and others' human stupidity.thehog said:
Glenn_Wilson said:
I hope in order of importance
1. That the truth of Armstrong's doped wins will be accepted by the public as incontrovertible;
2. That those who conspired with him will be brought to justice along with Armstrong;
3. That they all receive prison sentences, which sentences might be suspended for honest cooperation in outing drug users in pro cycling not yet caught and full, unequivocal public admissions of what they did;
4. Full and complete restitution of all monies derived from the conspiracy.
BotanyBay said:
BINGO! You've got the history down correctly. When Burke died, I kidded Charles Pelkey about why he didn't mention this in the obituary he did of Burke.
I still have Burke's cycling add on to my old Polar Coach program. I wasn't half bad, but it didn't mention blood doping.
Someone asked me how I knew what I knew about the '84 doping program. It's quite simple. Rolling Stone magazine did a bombshell of an article, but I think it used anonymous sources, and plenty of folks thought it was all lies. Needless to say, the racing community in the USA was abuzz following that article. Soon after, Dave Grylls showed up at my club's monthly meeting one night and (with at least 50-60 witnesses) told the story from top-to-bottom. He never asked us to keep quiet about it, and never asked us not to mention his name. He just knew that the real story needed to be told. Back then, I never thought my being a witness to this story would ever prove useful, but now I can see that it is. The cycling media tends to forget, and tends to fail to publish information that might prove unflattering to the icons they try and build / worship.
Grylls was called into a meeting of the entire US Olympic track team. Both short and long team members. They were briefed about the process and what they'd need to do. Grylls asked if it was mandatory, and more than a few did not like what they were hearing. Grylls was rather vocal that he was not going to do it. That was when everyone was told that if they wanted to ride, then they needed to be willing to blood-pack. As many of you know, meathead ended up very sick from the process and his (then) wife, Rebecca Twigg is reputed to have shown-up to race with less than stellar health. But since she silvered, no one really took another look at her.
And yes, Grylls also told us about how he pulled his foot out at the start of the final. For the record, he didn't pull his foot out. The strap broke off completely. In their almost insane drive to make everything light and streamlined, they forget to use common sense. Everyone in track racing at the time knows that the only toe-strap you could trust was an Alfredo Binda, and if you're doing track racing, that means a double-dose of Mr. Binda's straps. The USCF mechanics only outfitted the bikes with the most lightweight straps they could find. So lightweight that his broke immediately.
Grylls was called into a meeting of the entire US Olympic track team. Both short and long team members. They were briefed about the process and what they'd need to do. Grylls asked if it was mandatory, and more than a few did not like what they were hearing. Grylls was rather vocal that he was not going to do it. That was when everyone was told that if they wanted to ride, then they needed to be willing to blood-pack. As many of you know, meathead ended up very sick from the process and his (then) wife, Rebecca Twigg is reputed to have shown-up to race with less than stellar health. But since she silvered, no one really took another look at her.
And yes, Grylls also told us about how he pulled his foot out at the start of the final. For the record, he didn't pull his foot out. The strap broke off completely. In their almost insane drive to make everything light and streamlined, they forget to use common sense. Everyone in track racing at the time knows that the only toe-strap you could trust was an Alfredo Binda, and if you're doing track racing, that means a double-dose of Mr. Binda's straps. The USCF mechanics only outfitted the bikes with the most lightweight straps they could find. So lightweight that his broke immediately.
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