Johan gets served

[BotanyBay]

They were not masterminds. They spread the circle of knowledge really wide because the entire TdF squad was always on the program. Success of the criminal scheme depended entirely upon the loyalty of the relatively low-paid domestiques. If any one of them would have turned, at any time during the Postie/Disco Era, then the whole thing would have collapsed like a house of cards. All it would have taken is one police raid to one residence in Girona...

Lance was lucky that nobody dropped a dime. His team of liars maintained the lie for just long enough for him to get over (just barely).

You're probably more correct. I do have a flair for the dramatic.

I think I'll write a TV series.

 

[BotanyBay]

So running with this theory.

Why would the Feds want to speak with JB? Do they need more information on Lance if that case is closed? Or maybe they see him as the “trafficker” and needs to be charged and Armstrong more just a “user” thus no charges?

They may have closed the LA investigation in favor of a JB case. As that might be where the paper-trail actually led them.

Remember, Johann was the boss-man when Lance was merely hoping to get another ride back in '99. So this whole mess might really be the string-pulling of JB after all. Lance was a fairly broken guy when he hopped back on that bike. I'll bet he was easy to manipulate and control. The Lance of early 1999 was probably a lot different (emotionally) than the Lance we knew before cancer (and see today). Lance was a gambler and Johann is a thug.

 

[Maxiton]

Enter former teammate Steven Swart. He's gone on-record as saying that Lance was the biggest, baddest dope-dog the peloton had ever seen. A guy obsessed with finding the bestest, baddest dope he could find. Intent on pressuring others on the team to do the same.

My belief is that JB and Lance were like a perfect match for each other. Unafraid to go for it. Smart enough to execute it. Willing to sacrafice all in order to get it. JB being the supply chain and logistics strategist and Lance being the race horse. Ferarri the trainer.

Carmichael was the decoy. Got himself set-up in a nice business with the best endorsement one could ever hope to get, and all he needed to do was pretend to be the coach. Not a bad deal. Interact with the media and give training tips to Bicycling Magazine so that the cycling press doesn't bother tailing Lance into parking lots in Italy.

They all did a fantastic job of "managing" the ruse. They concocted and executed the Cycling equivilent of The Hills. Better reality THAN reality. 3 fabulously planned camera angles for each and every scene. Everyone wins. Cancer gets killed. Even Phil and Paul can't go anywhere without people comping all of their meals and drinks. It's a win-win situation. Nike makes millions. Trek makes millions.

People that leave the team are like those who leave Tony Soprano's crew. There's only one way to leave the crew. Dead or humilated. Or if you're Dylan C, you maintain the story even in retirement.

That's what I call putting it all in a nutshell. This is pretty much the way I've seen things for years.

The millions being made by Nike and Trek, and similar, needs to be emphasized, too. As long as they had good, plausible deniability, they were all in. I think some of these senior execs looked up to Lance more for what he was getting away with, than for his athletic accomplishments. Like they were thinking, "When I grow up, I want to be a d-bag just like Lance."

So running with this theory.

Why would the Feds want to speak with JB? Do they need more information on Lance if that case is closed? Or maybe they see him as the “trafficker” and needs to be charged and Armstrong more just a “user” thus no charges?

I don't think we have enough info to know. Nightmare scenario for Lance: the announced closing of the case was just a feint, a mind game, in order to get everyone's guard down, to get them talking freely on their tapped phones, and to lure JB into the country. If that was the tactic, it's working.

 

[sniper]

Enter former teammate Steven Swart. He's gone on-record as saying that Lance was the biggest, baddest dope-dog the peloton had ever seen. A guy obsessed with finding the bestest, baddest dope he could find. Intent on pressuring others on the team to do the same.

My belief is that JB and Lance were like a perfect match for each other. Unafraid to go for it. Smart enough to execute it. Willing to sacrafice all in order to get it. JB being the supply chain and logistics strategist and Lance being the race horse. Ferarri the trainer.

Carmichael was the decoy. Got himself set-up in a nice business with the best endorsement one could ever hope to get, and all he needed to do was pretend to be the coach. Not a bad deal. Interact with the media and give training tips to Bicycling Magazine so that the cycling press doesn't bother tailing Lance into parking lots in Italy.

They all did a fantastic job of "managing" the ruse. They concocted and executed the Cycling equivilent of The Hills. Better reality THAN reality. 3 fabulously planned camera angles for each and every scene. Everyone wins. Cancer gets killed. Even Phil and Paul can't go anywhere without people comping all of their meals and drinks. It's a win-win situation. Nike makes millions. Trek makes millions.

People that leave the team are like those who leave Tony Soprano's crew. There's only one way to leave the crew. Dead or humilated. Or if you're Dylan C, you maintain the story even in retirement.

you're forgetting the UCI. They enabled this. They were in on it from the start, covering up the 1999 positives and allowing the backdated TUE.

It's ironic that the same UCI later caused the structure to start crumbling, basically by ****ing off Floyd on too many occasions.

 

[Maxiton]

They may have closed the LA investigation in favor of a JB case. As that might be where the paper-trail actually led them.

Remember, Johann was the boss-man when Lance was merely hoping to get another ride back in '99. So this whole mess might really be the string-pulling of JB after all. Lance was a fairly broken guy when he hopped back on that bike. I'll bet he was easy to manipulate and control. The Lance of early 1999 was probably a lot different (emotionally) than the Lance we knew before cancer (and see today). Lance was a gambler and Johann is a thug.

Bingo. Maybe.

And if they "close" the investigation into Lance, and "open" or re-focus the investigation into Bruyneel, was anything every really closed to begin with? All the same people who were going down before would still go down, no matter who the supposed target is. Maybe one or the other of them, LA and Bruyneel, will be offered limited immunity in exchange for testimony against the other, so there is that.

 

[MarkvW]

You're probably more correct. I do have a flair for the dramatic.

I think I'll write a TV series.

It would make a great story. Would need a hell of a disclaimer, though!

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Enter former teammate Steven Swart. He's gone on-record as saying that Lance was the biggest, baddest dope-dog the peloton had ever seen. A guy obsessed with finding the bestest, baddest dope he could find. Intent on pressuring others on the team to do the same.

My belief is that JB and Lance were like a perfect match for each other. Unafraid to go for it. Smart enough to execute it. Willing to sacrafice all in order to get it. JB being the supply chain and logistics strategist and Lance being the race horse. Ferarri the trainer.

Carmichael was the decoy. Got himself set-up in a nice business with the best endorsement one could ever hope to get, and all he needed to do was pretend to be the coach. Not a bad deal. Interact with the media and give training tips to Bicycling Magazine so that the cycling press doesn't bother tailing Lance into parking lots in Italy.

They all did a fantastic job of "managing" the ruse. They concocted and executed the Cycling equivilent of The Hills. Better reality THAN reality. 3 fabulously planned camera angles for each and every scene. Everyone wins. Cancer gets killed. Even Phil and Paul can't go anywhere without people comping all of their meals and drinks. It's a win-win situation. Nike makes millions. Trek makes millions.

People that leave the team are like those who leave Tony Soprano's crew. There's only one way to leave the crew. Dead or humilated. Or if you're Dylan C, you maintain the story even in retirement.

Where did Swart every say that? He didn't even see LA dope.

They may have closed the LA investigation in favor of a JB case. As that might be where the paper-trail actually led them.

Remember, Johann was the boss-man when Lance was merely hoping to get another ride back in '99. So this whole mess might really be the string-pulling of JB after all. Lance was a fairly broken guy when he hopped back on that bike. I'll bet he was easy to manipulate and control. The Lance of early 1999 was probably a lot different (emotionally) than the Lance we knew before cancer (and see today). Lance was a gambler and Johann is a thug.

Again, the highlighted is completely wrong.
JB did not come on board until late 98, after Armstrong had already got 4th in the Vuelta. It was Armstrongs team, and he was not happy with Weltz - JB could use his connections and experience to run the team.

 

[BotanyBay]

Bingo. Maybe.

And if they "close" the investigation into Lance, and "open" or re-focus the investigation into Bruyneel, was anything every really closed to begin with? All the same people who were going down before would still go down, no matter who the supposed target is. Maybe one or the other of them, LA and Bruyneel, will be offered limited immunity in exchange for testimony against the other, so there is that.

Birotte's LA decision may have just been a crafty way to get JB back into the states. Keep the files in the drawer, change the name of the case, get back to work.

?

 

[BotanyBay]

Where did Swart every say that? He didn't even see LA dope.



Again, the highlighted is completely wrong.
JB did not come on board until late 98, after Armstrong had already got 4th in the Vuelta. It was Armstrongs team, and he was not happy with Weltz - JB could use his connections and experience to run the team.

Swart said a whole bunch of stuff about Lance.

You could be right about JB's arrival. I'm just thinking of possible scenarios.

 

[BotanyBay]

When is the last time JB was spotted by anyone?

 

[Maxiton]

JB did not come on board until late 98, after Armstrong had already got 4th in the Vuelta. It was Armstrongs team, and he was not happy with Weltz - JB could use his connections and experience to run the team.

I do remember reading that. Didn't Bruyneel tell Lance, pre-cancer wasn't it?, that he thought LA could win the Tour?

 

[DirtyWorks]

Makes you wonder doesn’t it what sort of advice he was getting? It’s a stretch but with the USADA stuff coming up maybe LA wanted to position this as evil DS forcing PED’s on the riders? Might be his way out public perception wise? Surely he didn't tell him everything was in the clear?

We're talking about a real classy bunch of cheats and liars. Some would know more than I, but I don't see how The Hog serves Team Wonderboy any more.

Wonderboy casting himself the hapless racehorse does not surprise me. It would fit in the myth nicely. Be on the lookout for an interview that sets the groundwork for this outcome.

I'll add some maybes to the list. Maybe Team Wonderboy did a deal? Close the investigation on me, I'll call off the lawyers and I'll give you the "Mastermind" supplier.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Swart said a whole bunch of stuff about Lance.

You could be right about JB's arrival. I'm just thinking of possible scenarios.

Sure- Swart did say a "whole bunch of stuff" but you appear to have actually missed what he said, because if you read what he said you'd know that LA was the team.

 

[MacRoadie]

When is the last time JB was spotted by anyone?

This is what I find most interesting. Here we are, three days into the biggest race in North America (and specifically the US), and Bruyneel hasn't been spotted in any photos or video.

He is the General Manager of the team: a team that, while licensed in Luxembourg, has as its title sponsors, three US companies (I believe it is sponsored by Nissan North America, going back to the old team).

The premiere opportunity to showcase your sponsors, and all the PR that a ProTour sponsor would expect, and he is nowhere to be seen. Especially if he isn't even DS'ing the race.

Seems rather odd behavior if, as some suggest, there is nothing wrong and whomever wanted to talk to Bruyneel, was simply looking for his assistance.

 

[thehog]

We're talking about a real classy bunch of cheats and liars. Some would know more than I, but I don't see how The Hog serves Team Wonderboy any more.

Wonderboy casting himself the hapless racehorse does not surprise me. It would fit in the myth nicely. Be on the lookout for an interview that sets the groundwork for this outcome.

I'll add some maybes to the list. Maybe Team Wonderboy did a deal? Close the investigation on me, I'll call off the lawyers and I'll give you the "Mastermind" supplier.

I agree. To get the investigation dropped he would have had to pony up on something. I'd say he gave up Bruyneel and maybe some others. Anyone who's ever been involved with Tailwind must be hiding under rocks at the moment.

We all know Hog couldn't control Lance with Contador or the chase down of Simeoni so I doubt he was the hapless rider some here are presenting.*

 

[Semper Fidelis]

When is the last time JB was spotted by anyone?

Be careful what you ask around here.

 

[Maxiton]

We're talking about a real classy bunch of cheats and liars. Some would know more than I, but I don't see how The Hog serves Team Wonderboy any more.

Wonderboy casting himself the hapless racehorse does not surprise me. It would fit in the myth nicely. Be on the lookout for an interview that sets the groundwork for this outcome.

I'll add some maybes to the list. Maybe Team Wonderboy did a deal? Close the investigation on me, I'll call off the lawyers and I'll give you the "Mastermind" supplier.

And then LA talked JB into coming here? JB, stabbed in the back by LA? Et tu, LA? That would be amazing.

 

[Polish]

This is what I find most interesting. Here we are, three days into the biggest race in North America (and specifically the US), and Bruyneel hasn't been spotted in any photos or video.

He is the General Manager of the team: a team that, while licensed in Luxembourg, has as its title sponsors, three US companies (I believe it is sponsored by Nissan North America, going back to the old team).

The premiere opportunity to showcase your sponsors, and all the PR that a ProTour sponsor would expect, and he is nowhere to be seen. Especially if he isn't even DS'ing the race.

Seems rather odd behavior if, as some suggest, there is nothing wrong and whomever wanted to talk to Bruyneel, was simply looking for his assistance.

I have not seen any photos or videos of ANY of the DS's so far. Eerie. Maybe they have all been kidnapped by alien frogmen. Even a tactical genius. Captured.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I have not seen any photos or videos of ANY of the DS's so far. Eerie. Maybe they have all been kidnapped by alien frogmen. Even a tactical genius. Captured.

I think I saw Bjarne picking up a bottle of vodka at the store. 60 proof, of course.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

When is the last time JB was spotted by anyone?

I just asked via twitter to @Dzabriskie “yo Z ax dahawg – “how’s it hanging”?

Maybe he will give us an update?

 

[MacRoadie]

I have not seen any photos or videos of ANY of the DS's so far. Eerie. Maybe they have all been kidnapped by alien frogmen. Even a tactical genius. Captured.

Yes, I'm sure GreenEdge, AG2R and Liquigas are just dying to get good PR on NBC. And he' not "the DS", he's the General Manager.

 

[Maxiton]

I just asked via twitter to @Dzabriskie “yo Z ax dahawg – “how’s it hanging”?

By da neck.

 

[BroDeal]

The cool thing about going after Radio Shack management is that Leipheimer, being one of the few Americans on the team who was racing the big events, will have a starring role. The prosecutors cannot count on riders like Kloden to appear at trial. They will have to rely on Leipheimer and Armstrong. If they go into the past then maybe the prosecutors could drag Vaughters on the stand and get him to stop shuckin' and jiven'.

 

[MarkvW]

And then LA talked JB into coming here? JB, stabbed in the back by LA? Et tu, LA? That would be amazing.

Seeing Lance turn snitch would be one of the greatest schadenfreude moments of all time. ...

 

[Polish]

They may have closed the LA investigation in favor of a JB case. As that might be where the paper-trail actually led them.
.

Exactly. Maybe it was a "target letter" handed to him at the airport. Although maybe the Feds are following the paper trail pre-Bruyneel....back to the "white lunch bag" era that existed at Postal before Johan arrived. Need Bruyneel's assessment of the dirty situation in place when he started. Back at the end of the EPO era. Back in the Era of the real Postal fraud. Doping and losing. Waste of money for sure.