Johan gets served

[Cloxxki]

Sure we do. But not for international drug criminals.

I’ll I’m asking is the UCI do the right thing and pull him from the sport until the investigation has concluded. It’s the right thing to do for the sport. It can’t afford anymore black eyes. There’s young guys in the this sport and they need to be protected.

You forgot that JB has a nice silent black mail opportunity. He was there by Lance's side, also to see what the UCI was up to. Pat will have to support him until the very end. He can't throw JB under the bus, as JB is racing it down the alley with just PatMcQ in his path.

 

[fatandfast]

We do have a process where innocence is assumed. Via your zeal or intentional sensationalism you are getting ahead of yourself. Simmer down and wait for the slimmest of facts before you jump in head first.

You are only partially right. Yes the American system is supposed to assume innocence but the process is very slanted. You get cuffed and paraded about like you have already been convicted. The leaks are mostly one sided so the prosecutor can get the trial started without you by a smear campaign of any size. As a couple of posters stated the feds do not lightly use their office but once they start a conviction is what they are after at any price.

There was a trial briefing in the Clemons case where Roger's lawyer had to lay out what he plans to bring up in court. The main accuser had 2 DWIs while he was working w Roger,He also was named in a drug case,a rape case and a fraud case among some of the sorted details they plan to bring up about his credibility.
Landis better hope he is not part of anything because once they start who,what and where about his drug use,his book tour,his legal aid fund,his dealings with the French courts and his heavy drug use he will unravel during any cross examination

 

[MarkvW]

Looks like all we know so far is that some unknown people served Johan Bruyneel with some unknown papers at a S.F. Airport. Any new information?

 

[BotanyBay]

The Feds don’t mess about. They don’t subpoena for fun. Especially International citizens. He’s in a lot of trouble. He has a long history of drug related crimes. The UCI should pull him from the race and the ethics committee should revoke his DS license.

Let’s not get silly here and start defending the undefendable.

The "feds" can do the following:

- Arrest you / charge you (assuming they have probable cause to do so).

- Ask to question you. But you do not have to agree.

- Serve you with a target letter (if you're the subject of a GJ investigation).

- Summon you to testify in front of a grand jury. You do not have to answer any questions that might incriminate yourself.

These are the basic options.

 

[fatandfast]

The "feds" can do the following:

- Arrest you / charge you (assuming they have probable cause to do so).

- Ask to question you. But you do not have to agree.

- Serve you with a target letter (if you're the subject of a GJ investigation).

- Summon you to testify in front of a grand jury. You do not have to answer any questions that might incriminate yourself.

These are the basic options.

and given all these options,do you think that if the feds exercise any one or a combination of them that it is incriminating to the person involved? I have an opinion and that is it is very damaging to anybody involved,guilty or not.

recent event within the US federal system have shown that those who plead the 5th are made to look guilty even though they didn't say anything.

 

[MarkvW]

The Feds don’t mess about. They don’t subpoena for fun. Especially International citizens. He’s in a lot of trouble. He has a long history of drug related crimes. The UCI should pull him from the race and the ethics committee should revoke his DS license.

Let’s not get silly here and start defending the undefendable.

Several days ago, Bruyneel was served with papers. Assume that the feds served him, it's a fair guess. So from that you are asking us to believe

(1) that Bruyneel is in a lot of criminal trouble; and
(2) that it is "silly" to think otherwise.

Methinks hoggster is going all Tuesday, again.

 

[Microchip]

Oohh, this is so intriguing.

I always can't help but think "if Lance had not come out of retirement; had not had a team formed around him that got invited to the Tour of California, which in turn would not have angered Floyd whose team was prevented from being able to take part ... et ceterah! et ceterah!" ...

What a domino effect his Comeback really did have!

 

[thehog]

Looks like all we know so far is that some unknown people served Johan Bruyneel with some unknown papers at a S.F. Airport. Any new information?

No information as JB has boarded up the team bus and is not talking. In 2010 he was happy to give a press conference on credibility. Why not the same?

If these unknown people who delivered the unknown subpoena gets JB off the streets of cycling then it’s ok with me. If it allows victims to be paid back then I’m ok with the way this is proceeding. The UCI really should step in and gain clarity on the subject. They’re here to protect and promote the sport yes?

 

[Semper Fidelis]

A person would think that if the Fed’s checked him out at the SFO then they would have checked his person and his luggage. They must not have found any blood bags / EPO / Testo / Clen / special steaks etc.

So I guess he was not caught too off guard. Otherwise he would have been packed up like a Yak on his way to base camp at Everest.

I guess the shack bus is boarded up according to some here but the last time I checked there was riders going in and out of the bus door.

 

[BotanyBay]

and given all these options,do you think that if the feds exercise any one or a combination of them that it is incriminating to the person involved? I have an opinion and that is it is very damaging to anybody involved,guilty or not.

recent event within the US federal system have shown that those who plead the 5th are made to look guilty even though they didn't say anything.

I've had enough life experience to say this now:

I'd never answer any question posed by a law enforcement officer or prosecutor (other than my name and address) unless specifically advised to do so by my attorney. I wouldn't care HOW it looked to an outsider. I'd instantly lawyer-up.

I have often wondered during the past two weeks if Floyd is in his current mess due to a potential FAILURE to lawyer-up during the progression of the Armstrong case. I know that his finances are not great, and that being on the accusing side of the coin, perhaps he talked a lot to the feds (thinking he was helping them convict Lance) and ended up incriminating himself. And perhaps he did so without an attorney? Man, that would be really dumb. I hope that's not the case.

 

[MarkvW]

A person would think that if the Fed’s checked him out at the SFO then they would have checked his person and his luggage. They must not have found any blood bags / EPO / Testo / Clen / special steaks etc.

So I guess he was not caught too off guard. Otherwise he would have been packed up like a Yak on his way to base camp at Everest.

I guess the shack bus is boarded up according to some here but the last time I checked there was riders going in and out of the bus door.

Johan ain't no mule!

 

[BotanyBay]

A person would think that if the Fed’s checked him out at the SFO then they would have checked his person and his luggage. They must not have found any blood bags / EPO / Testo / Clen / special steaks etc.

So I guess he was not caught too off guard. Otherwise he would have been packed up like a Yak on his way to base camp at Everest.

I guess the shack bus is boarded up according to some here but the last time I checked there was riders going in and out of the bus door.

Everyone already knows: The Omega Pharma bus is the one with the real good stuff anyways.

 

[Maxiton]

Oohh, this is so intriguing.

I always can't help but think "if Lance had not come out of retirement; had not had a team formed around him that got invited to the Tour of California, which in turn would not have angered Floyd whose team was prevented from being able to take part ... et ceterah! et ceterah!" ...

What a domino effect his Comeback really did have!

Maybe Floyd wanted to get on the team only in order to gather incriminating evidence. Maybe his mind was already made up.

I agree, though, that the comeback for Lance was inviting trouble. You and I see that; maybe, say, Indurain would have seen it; most people perhaps would have seen it; but Lance and Bruyneel, they didn't see it, apparently.

I still can't believe Bruyneel just blithely, blindly flew into the U.S., so soon after the recent contretemps.

 

[Kennf1]

There was a trial briefing in the Clemons case where Roger's lawyer had to lay out what he plans to bring up in court. The main accuser had 2 DWIs while he was working w Roger,He also was named in a drug case,a rape case and a fraud case among some of the sorted details they plan to bring up about his credibility.
Landis better hope he is not part of anything because once they start who,what and where about his drug use,his book tour,his legal aid fund,his dealings with the French courts and his heavy drug use he will unravel during any cross examination

Rusty will have a hard time getting evidence of DWIs, or McNamee (if that's the person you're referring to) having been "named" in other legal proceedings (with no convictions). You need conviction of a crime involving imprisonment of more than a year, or conviction of some other crime involving truthfullness (moral turpitude). Being named in a prior suit doesn't cut it, and the judge is keeping a tight reign on the evidence coming in.
McNamee is on the stand today, and will be cross-examined, so we'll see.

As for Landis, he'll freely admit his drug use, and his bs FFF and book, and the prosecutor will bring that out in direct examination to difuse the cross-ex. All hypothetically, of course.

Edit: I spoke to soon about McNamee. Apprarently he just testified about his DWIs in 2002, as well as injecting himself with HGH and steroids. All this on direct.

 

[MarkvW]

I've had enough life experience to say this now:

I'd never answer any question posed by a law enforcement officer or prosecutor (other than my name and address) unless specifically advised to do so by my attorney. I wouldn't care HOW it looked to an outsider. I'd instantly lawyer-up.

I have often wondered during the past two weeks if Floyd is in his current mess due to a potential FAILURE to lawyer-up during the progression of the Armstrong case. I know that his finances are not great, and that being on the accusing side of the coin, perhaps he talked a lot to the feds (thinking he was helping them convict Lance) and ended up incriminating himself. And perhaps he did so without an attorney? Man, that would be really dumb. I hope that's not the case.

Floyd had counsel (Wilson Sonsini firm (advertises representation in qui tam cases)) at the time of the revelations in May, '10. They do criminal stuff too.

 

[thehog]

I've had enough life experience to say this now:

I'd never answer any question posed by a law enforcement officer or prosecutor (other than my name and address) unless specifically advised to do so by my attorney. I wouldn't care HOW it looked to an outsider. I'd instantly lawyer-up.

I have often wondered during the past two weeks if Floyd is in his current mess due to a potential FAILURE to lawyer-up during the progression of the Armstrong case. I know that his finances are not great, and that being on the accusing side of the coin, perhaps he talked a lot to the feds (thinking he was helping them convict Lance) and ended up incriminating himself. And perhaps he did so without an attorney? Man, that would be really dumb. I hope that's not the case.

I think you could be right. But everyone has a right to be treated equally an fairly by the courts regardless of their financial status.

None the less this is the Johan thread. Not the Floyd thread though. I guess we should ask the question does JB have the financial resources to defend himself? I’d like to think that Armstrong has assisted in this area? Thoughts?

In 2010 Johan went on record and said he nothing to hide. Wonder why he’s not talking now?

 

[thehog]

I agree, though, that the comeback for Lance was inviting trouble. You and I see that; maybe, say, Indurain would have seen it; most people perhaps would have seen it; but Lance and Bruyneel, they didn't see it, apparently.

I still can't believe Bruyneel just blithely, blindly flew into the U.S., so soon after the recent contretemps.

Makes you wonder doesn’t it what sort of advice he was getting? It’s a stretch but with the USADA stuff coming up maybe LA wanted to position this as evil DS forcing PED’s on the riders? Might be his way out public perception wise? Surely he didn't tell him everything was in the clear?

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I think you could be right. But everyone has a right to be treated equally an fairly by the courts regardless of their financial status.

None the less this is the Johan thread. Not the Floyd thread though. I guess we should ask the question does JB have the financial resources to defend himself? I’d like to think that Armstrong has assisted in this area? Thoughts?

In 2010 Johan went on record and said he nothing to hide. Wonder why he’s not talking now?

I would think that HOG has counsel. YMMV
No need to police the thread in regards to Floyd. Most understood why BB used that as a comparison. again YMMV

HOW DO YOU know he is not talking to the Fed's? You have some inside info? Please share -----(with links of course)

 

[BotanyBay]

Makes you wonder doesn’t it what sort of advice he was getting? It’s a stretch but with the USADA stuff coming up maybe LA wanted to position this as evil DS forcing PED’s on the riders? Might be his way out public perception wise? Surely he didn't tell him everything was in the clear?

Enter former teammate Steven Swart. He's gone on-record as saying that Lance was the biggest, baddest dope-dog the peloton had ever seen. A guy obsessed with finding the bestest, baddest dope he could find. Intent on pressuring others on the team to do the same.

My belief is that JB and Lance were like a perfect match for each other. Unafraid to go for it. Smart enough to execute it. Willing to sacrafice all in order to get it. JB being the supply chain and logistics strategist and Lance being the race horse. Ferarri the trainer.

Carmichael was the decoy. Got himself set-up in a nice business with the best endorsement one could ever hope to get, and all he needed to do was pretend to be the coach. Not a bad deal. Interact with the media and give training tips to Bicycling Magazine so that the cycling press doesn't bother tailing Lance into parking lots in Italy.

They all did a fantastic job of "managing" the ruse. They concocted and executed the Cycling equivilent of The Hills. Better reality THAN reality. 3 fabulously planned camera angles for each and every scene. Everyone wins. Cancer gets killed. Even Phil and Paul can't go anywhere without people comping all of their meals and drinks. It's a win-win situation. Nike makes millions. Trek makes millions.

People that leave the team are like those who leave Tony Soprano's crew. There's only one way to leave the crew. Dead or humilated. Or if you're Dylan C, you maintain the story even in retirement.

 

[BotanyBay]

I guess we should ask the question does JB have the financial resources to defend himself?

Just ask some of the many riders whom JB has refused to pay over the years, meanwhile, pocketing the money the sponsors gave. Remember, the UCI doesn't really protect the riders from thugs like him.

Lance gets to put his millions into a bank in the Cayman Islands. Johan gets to stuff his in bags full of duck feed in the back yard. But he's a wealthy guy too.

 

[BotanyBay]

I would think that HOG has counsel. YMMV
No need to police the thread in regards to Floyd. Most understood why BB used that as a comparison. again YMMV

HOW DO YOU know he is not talking to the Fed's? You have some inside info? Please share -----(with links of course)

Wait, the music is starting to stop.

 

[MarkvW]

Enter former teammate Steven Swart. He's gone on-record as saying that Lance was the biggest, baddest dope-dog the peloton had ever seen. A guy obsessed with finding the bestest, baddest dope he could find. Intent on pressuring others on the team to do the same.

My belief is that JB and Lance were like a perfect match for each other. Unafraid to go for it. Smart enough to execute it. Willing to sacrafice all in order to get it. JB being the supply chain and logistics strategist and Lance being the race horse. Ferarri the trainer.

Carmichael was the decoy. Got himself set-up in a nice business with the best endorsement one could ever hope to get, and all he needed to do was pretend to be the coach. Not a bad deal. Interact with the media and give training tips to Bicycling Magazine so that the cycling press doesn't bother tailing Lance into parking lots in Italy.

They all did a fantastic job of "managing" the ruse. They concocted and executed the Cycling equivilent of The Hills. Better reality THAN reality. 3 fabulously planned camera angles for each and every scene. Everyone wins. Cancer gets killed. Even Phil and Paul can't go anywhere without people comping all of their meals and drinks. It's a win-win situation. Nike makes millions. Trek makes millions.

People that leave the team are like those who leave Tony Soprano's crew. There's only one way to leave the crew. Dead or humilated. Or if you're Dylan C, you maintain the story even in retirement.

They were not masterminds. They spread the circle of knowledge really wide because the entire TdF squad was always on the program. Success of the criminal scheme depended entirely upon the loyalty of the relatively low-paid domestiques. If any one of them would have turned, at any time during the Postie/Disco Era, then the whole thing would have collapsed like a house of cards. All it would have taken is one police raid to one residence in Girona...

Lance was lucky that nobody dropped a dime. His team of liars maintained the lie for just long enough for him to get over (just barely).

 

[BroDeal]

Makes you wonder doesn’t it what sort of advice he was getting? It’s a stretch but with the USADA stuff coming up maybe LA wanted to position this as evil DS forcing PED’s on the riders? Might be his way out public perception wise? Surely he didn't tell him everything was in the clear?

The funny thing is that any prosecution of team management or civil case will make public lots of information about Armstrong. It would be hilarious to see Armstrong called as a witness and have to admit to being a dope cheat. In any criminal trial, the defendents will minimize their own involvement and point to the person who is not on trial as the ringleader. That's Armstrong.

 

[thehog]

Enter former teammate Steven Swart. He's gone on-record as saying that Lance was the biggest, baddest dope-dog the peloton had ever seen. A guy obsessed with finding the bestest, baddest dope he could find. Intent on pressuring others on the team to do the same.

My belief is that JB and Lance were like a perfect match for each other. Unafraid to go for it. Smart enough to execute it. Willing to sacrafice all in order to get it. JB being the supply chain and logistics strategist and Lance being the race horse. Ferarri the trainer.

Carmichael was the decoy. Got himself set-up in a nice business with the best endorsement one could ever hope to get, and all he needed to do was pretend to be the coach. Not a bad deal. Interact with the media and give training tips to Bicycling Magazine so that the cycling press doesn't bother tailing Lance into parking lots in Italy.

They all did a fantastic job of "managing" the ruse. They concocted and executed the Cycling equivilent of The Hills. Better reality THAN reality. 3 fabulously planned camera angles for each and every scene. Everyone wins. Cancer gets killed. Even Phil and Paul can't go anywhere without people comping all of their meals and drinks. It's a win-win situation. Nike makes millions. Trek makes millions.

People that leave the team are like those who leave Tony Soprano's crew. There's only one way to leave the crew. Dead or humilated. Or if you're Dylan C, you maintain the story even in retirement.

So running with this theory.

Why would the Feds want to speak with JB? Do they need more information on Lance if that case is closed? Or maybe they see him as the “trafficker” and needs to be charged and Armstrong more just a “user” thus no charges?

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Wait, the music is starting to stop.

Well eventually someone is going to be A$$ out!