Jonas Vingegaard: Something is Rotten

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That's definitely a part of the ever sharper competitive edge.

We've been around the block a couple of times so we know from experience that it is not so simple as forcing all sports to be amateur, sadly.

Hopeful that, perhaps, spreading the money around more evenly, counteracting the revenue inequality (between teams, riders, etc) could maybe curb out some excesses ?

The fragility of cycling economy, with on one side a few events making a massive amount of the actual money and on the other teams being in a precarious state of having to find new sponsors every handful of years, is probably not helping.
This! As a cycling noob it makes no sense to me that teams can have such amazingly different budgets and be expected to compete on the same levels. Jumbo is getting middle eastern sponsors for next year so the inequalities won't change for the better either :/ But as you said other teams asking them to take it down a notch might have more effect. That is realistic.
 
It doesnt warrant this insane overreaction, this thread is exploding, if Pogacar won in the same fashion the reactions wouldnt be the same, not even remotely... I just find the double standard ridiculous
Of course not. Simply, Vingegaard is not so popular than pogacar. They are all in the same "mix", simply Vingegaard is a better GC rider than pogacar. People forget that pogacar's boss are gianneti and matxin, the same guys that were with ricardo ricco. They have money....do you all think that emirates is not using the same that jumbo is using? Of course not. They are all in the same "mix".
 
There should be a cover charge to this comedy club. The responses that is
It's party time here and also time for fun and laughs :)

Conclusions are drawn faster than the fly that disturbs me here, trying to sleep, but if there should not be this kind of party now, I have a hard time seeing when else.

Unless Pogi pulls a Landis from his closet. But have my doubts. The yellow wasp has bitten and stung hard today and will continue flying around Pogi for the next days.
 
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This! As a cycling noob it makes no sense to me that teams can have such amazingly different budgets and be expected to compete on the same levels. Jumbo is getting middle eastern sponsors for next year so the inequalities won't change for the better either :/ But as you said other teams asking them to take it down a notch might have more effect. That is realistic.

Cycling might actually be less bad than some other sports on that front though ? Ineos has 10x to 6x the budget of Alpecin, supposedly (to take the richest to most modest World Tour teams).

It's also a little harder to decipher than -say football- because of the variety of teams, levels mingling and different race formats throughout the season... So far, the disparate nature of road cycling still protects some variety, a team or rider can't spread himself to every GT, Classics, Monuments, etc.

There's no denying teams in cycling are maybe in a particularly precarious position in general compared to most team sports and so much so reliant on sponsorship (it's right in their name !)

It's been a longstanding debate that teams would like ASO/Le Tour to trickle down a little more cash to them and I think that's a legitimate demand.
 
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Big Mig wasn't as aero, and he definitely didn't bring his own pillow.

which is an important point, marginal gains stuff didnt really come in as the "rounder wheels" performance boost till the late noughties, yet look how many riders seem to do interviews on the rollers post stage now, back when Big Mig was riding there were going to be big gains found just by almost being just a bit more professionally focussed on some of those areas just a tiny bit more than the rest, he didnt have to be perfectly aero to beat everyone, because no one was perfectly drilled to be aero then.

its like when Schumacher turned up in F1 in the same era, and all the drivers were amazed he went to the gym to boost his fitness, or when Wenger turned up at Arsenal and effectively cured the smoking/drinking culture of professional footballers and taught them about sports nutrition.

but thats almost why thesedays riders are generally alot more closer in performance, and gains are tiny, I saw SD Worx put out a promo today ahead of the TdFF about how they use big data analytics to measure wattage gain and riders progression towards a goal, every team is analysing everything to the nth degree they tend to converge on the performance.

which is why big gaps ring alarm bells more than they would have in Indurains era, imo at least.
 
I think it's the same song and dance as ever : It's very hard (long and arduous) to prove and corroborate doping allegations and probably beyond the means of pundits. So why ruin a good thing, rock the boat and put your career in jeopardy over it ?

I used the term "kayfabe" from wrestling earlier. It's not exactly a novel analogy, I think many (here notably) spent the late 90 and early aughts witnessing a neverending meltdown met by "it's still real to me, dammit !" from many a fan. To a certain extent all pro sports are performative in the same sense wrestling (of the American variety) is.

I've taken an interest in pro boxing recently and it's a very good case of a sport that dropped all the pretenses of being anything other than show business. There's no league, 4 organisations at least crowning separate "world champions" in a dozen+ weight categories, fighters are carefully curated on their way to becoming contenders. The main goal for promoters is to stage events that will make good ratings or sell PPVs and that often means that the best don't fight the best because you don't want to ruin the commercial potential of a top fighter by adding loss to his record. And of course a long history of corruption and organised crime ties. Not to mention the grueling cost a lot of athletes pay because of how destructive it is. Star fighters can cash in 8 figures purses but 99% of pros will not see those prizes.

Most other sports will put a more respectable facade & enforce a supposedly more equal system but ultimately you find those tendencies everywhere.

With years passing, as I said, I grew numb at the whole ordeal. I follow sports casually now and like most people, I enjoy a good show. I'm not ignorant at the cost of it or the unsavoury parts (from capital concentration to broken lives through sportwashing) but heh... What can you do ?
I came to the conclusion doping in cycling (and sports in general) is a systemic issue that you can't fix with current means or even with a few large serious efforts every couple decades. I'm not certain anymore, even on an abstract level, you can fix it... Though I would still like to think we could fix it or guarantee a more even playing field.

Being cynical there's some truth to the idea that continued scandals or the perpetuation of the post Festina / Armstrong mood would probably kill pro cycling mid term... and that it would be "unfair" because a lot of other disciplines were never held to the same standard (despite track & field, football and tennis getting some ripple aftershocks of Balco, Puerto, etc).

In short, I believe you'd need to basically completely reinvent the incentive structure of pro sports (in the complete opposite way of the current natural slope) and have some global authorities being really dedicated in monitoring it... And even that I'm unsure because the more stringent the anti-doping regulation is, the more specialized, arcane, isolated and sophisticated the sport bubble gets. You need a full medical staff to make sure athletes don't use a bunch of common medications that are also on banned substances lists (to use a recent example in cycling and baseball).

Anyhow, don't know where I'm going with this.
The masquerade will carry on until the next breaking point for another cycle. If Vingo's otherworldly performances are illegally enhanced, I hope the peloton will at least have the common sense to tell Jumbo to scale it back a notch to keep the illusion going. That's pretty rotten (inefficient & naive) to rely on the omerta but that's honestly how low my expectations are.
You will never eradicate it. Would be better to let doping be legal, and just monitor for bad health effects etc, a bit like legalisation of illegal drugs for harm reduction in some countries now.
 
This thread is hilarious. If Pogacar would have won all would be 🌈 and 🦄.

if Pog had done Vings style of performance today I think the cycling world would have imploded, I think if Froome had done it this board would have imploded along with it.

Id say the reaction overall to Vingegaard today so far theres very much a deep inhale of breath and a pregnant pause in response, he is being given the benefit of the doubt so far, when alot of riders would already have been condemned, in a sport with a chequered history of people saying "just believe it".
 
which is an important point, marginal gains stuff didnt really come in as the "rounder wheels" performance boost till the late noughties, yet look how many riders seem to do interviews on the rollers post stage now, back when Big Mig was riding there were going to be big gains found just by almost being just a bit more professionally focussed on some of those areas just a tiny bit more than the rest, he didnt have to be perfectly aero to beat everyone, because no one was perfectly drilled to be aero then.

its like when Schumacher turned up in F1 in the same era, and all the drivers were amazed he went to the gym to boost his fitness, or when Wenger turned up at Arsenal and effectively cured the smoking/drinking culture of professional footballers and taught them about sports nutrition.

but thats almost why thesedays riders are generally alot more closer in performance, and gains are tiny, I saw SD Worx put out a promo today ahead of the TdFF about how they use big data analytics to measure wattage gain and riders progression towards a goal, every team is analysing everything to the nth degree they tend to converge on the performance.

which is why big gaps ring alarm bells more than they would have in Indurains era, imo at least.
You know I was also joking right?
 
if Pog had done Vings style of performance today I think the cycling world would have imploded, I think if Froome had done it this board would have imploded along with it.

Id say the reaction overall to Vingegaard today so far theres very much a deep inhale of breath and a pregnant pause in response, he is being given the benefit of the doubt so far, when alot of riders would already have been condemned, in a sport with a chequered history of people saying "just believe it".
Spot on, I'm reading comments of casual Joes on social media and it baffles my mind how gullible some people are, all these decades of turmoil in pro cycling didn't change anything, the mentality is still the same, "but he didn't test positive so he must be clean", "don't be paranoiac" or "you are just jealous", etc. The whole peloton can get popped tomorrow and the next year all will be forgotten by the general public. It's insane how they feel the urge to believe the "miracle" Lance was talking about in 2005, no questions asked.
 
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