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Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard: The Wizard of Visma

Page 160 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.

Which thread title(s) do you prefer? (you may submit your own)

  • The Chicken who eats Riis for breakfast

    Votes: 32 33.3%
  • When they go low, Vingo high

    Votes: 6 6.3%
  • Wings of Love

    Votes: 8 8.3%
  • The Fishman Cometh

    Votes: 14 14.6%
  • The Mysterious Vingegaard Society

    Votes: 12 12.5%
  • Vingo Star

    Votes: 15 15.6%
  • The Jonas Vingegaard Discussion Thread

    Votes: 29 30.2%
  • Vingegaard vs Roglič

    Votes: 6 6.3%

  • Total voters
    96
  • Poll closed .
Valter was on the limit precisely because the plan was changed, no one would expect from him to drill the climb all the way to the last km. They wanted to make it hard earlier and then Valter went full gas from the bottom, and lasted as long as he could.
Vingegaard ask for permition way before the climb, Niermann agreed and that's why they rode it like that.
Probably they expected more from kelderman, but it was right to change the plan when they saw there were no domestiques to control the race until the last km.

I think vingegaard asked for permition during the climb.
 
Because it was tactically a good move! It's UAE who messed up. You expect them to chase, Roglic and Kuss sitting comfortably on the wheel. If anyone should have been told not to go solo, it was Fisher-Black. Completely pointless move.
Believe it or not, I agree with this. I don't blame Vingegaard for asking or for wanting to win for himself (or his teammate). I more take issue with the team's inconsistency and the narrative of Vingegaard being this gentle giving creature and Roglic selfish. All 3 wanted to win and all 3 had reasons why it made sense for them to win and all 3 at times rode selfishly and at times selflessly. Ultimately, it was the team car that decided who won and who was second and who was third. And that is tough to get past if you’re Roglic in your twilight years trying to tie the record for Vuelta wins and win your first Tour.
 
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Thanks guys for evolving Remco. As for Rogla changing his winning ways. It could be that changing teams will change his racing style, slightly, too. Still in 2024 season i lean more towards two possible scenarios. That is if we focus on Rogla vs Jonas.

Jonas will need to ride away on some hill, or Rogla will stomp him. Now Remco can play along or can do his own thing. That doesn't change much. In the end it's appropriate, for Rogla to beat Jonas in the way, he couldn't any more at Visma. That is if Jonas won't just ride away, as some seem to suggest. If Jonas can do that then there is nothing to worry about, for Jonas and his fans. Otherwise indeed tough luck. We'll see.
 
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Thanks guys for evolving Remco. As for Rogla changing his winning ways. It could be that changing teams will change his racing style, slightly, too. Still in 2024 season i lean more towards two possible scenarios. That is if we focus on Rogla vs Jonas.

Jonas will need to ride away on some hill, or Rogla will stomp him. Now Remco can play along or can do his own thing. That doesn't change much. In the end it's appropriate, for Rogla to beat Jonas in the way, he couldn't any more at Visma. That is if Jonas won't just ride away, as some seem to suggest. If Jonas can do that then there is nothing to worry about, for Jonas and his fans. Otherwise indeed tough luck. We'll see.
You need to think about the possibility very realistic, that Vingegaard does another superb TT in the last stage of the Tour 2024. He is always more strong than everybody in the TTs of the last week of the Tour.

So, based on this, Roglic has more need to attack than Vingegaard. He will have to get out of his comfort zone.


C'mon @CyclistAbi let's be honest, you deep down know that Vingegaard can drop roglic. If Vingegaard can drop Pog, then he can drop every human being in this world.
 
Do we have any examples of Pogačar dropping Roglič in a stage race as to do transitive implication that Jonas can drop Roglič because he dropped Poagačar?
I remember the Pogačar Vuelta 19 and Tour 2020 escapes, but I would argue Roglič let him go much more than being dropped. There is also the Tour 2021 and 2022 stages when Roglič was badly injured and got dropped by everyone.
Other than that, it was only Roglič actually dropping Pogačar when both dueled against each other.
But to avoid a Pogačar turn... how many times did Jonas drop Roglič in any race when Roglič was not injured or "forced" to let him to?

About the last TT advantage, if Jonas can replicate the 2023 performance, that is indeed a bigger challenge than worrying about being dropped in the mountains and maybe the gathered stomps advantage would not suffice, but I would never count Roglič out, he's done some great TTs too and has a knack for miraculous.
 
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Do we have any examples of Pogačar dropping Roglič in a stage race as to do transitive implication that Jonas can drop Roglič because he dropped Poagačar?
I remember the Pogačar Vuelta 19 and Tour 2020 escapes, but I would argue Roglič let him go much more than being dropped. There is also the Tour 2021 and 2022 stages when Roglič was badly injured and got dropped by everyone.
Other than that, it was only Roglič actually dropping Pogačar when both dueled against each other.
But to avoid a Pogačar turn... how many times did Jonas drop Roglič in any race when Roglič was not injured or "forced" to let him to?

About the last TT advantage, if Jonas can replicate the 2023 performance, that is indeed a bigger challenge than worrying about being dropped in the mountains and maybe the gathered stomps advantage would not suffice, but I would never count Roglič out, he's done some great TTs too and has a knack for miraculous.
Well that is the potential beauty of this year's TdF, all the unanswered questions. In the slim chance that non of the main contenders has any real bad luck, we might get our epic showdown.

I'm a little nervous that Jonas and Pog are just going to go into space again. Roglic usually races head to head with the guys that might as well not exist, when the two others are doing their thing in the tour. I really hope this is too simplistic and we get our fireworks.
 
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Do we have any examples of Pogačar dropping Roglič in a stage race as to do transitive implication that Jonas can drop Roglič because he dropped Poagačar?
I remember the Pogačar Vuelta 19 and Tour 2020 escapes, but I would argue Roglič let him go much more than being dropped. There is also the Tour 2021 and 2022 stages when Roglič was badly injured and got dropped by everyone.
Other than that, it was only Roglič actually dropping Pogačar when both dueled against each other.
But to avoid a Pogačar turn... how many times did Jonas drop Roglič in any race when Roglič was not injured or "forced" to let him to?

About the last TT advantage, if Jonas can replicate the 2023 performance, that is indeed a bigger challenge than worrying about being dropped in the mountains and maybe the gathered stomps advantage would not suffice, but I would never count Roglič out, he's done some great TTs too and has a knack for miraculous.
I think in the Dauphiné 2022 it was quite clear that Vingegaard could have dropped Roglic if he wanted to. But he was a loyal domestique, as he has always been until it turned out he was actually stronger. It's just a natural progression, not a forced one or the team holding Roglic back.

But let's be honest, has Vingegaard ever needed Kuss to pace him back to the leaders, like Roglic has several times? There were times when Roglic didn't even look like the strongest climber in his own team, let alone in the race. On real epic mountain stages he's vulnerable, just like Pogacar is actually. Visma know this, that's why not having him there at the Tour actually helped them in a way because it made the tactic much "easier": just make the race super hard on every stage. This suits Vingegaard, but not necessarily Roglic.
 
You need to think about the possibility very realistic, that Vingegaard does another superb TT in the last stage of the Tour 2024. He is always more strong than everybody in the TTs of the last week of the Tour.

So, based on this, Roglic has more need to attack than Vingegaard. He will have to get out of his comfort zone.


C'mon @CyclistAbi let's be honest, you deep down know that Vingegaard can drop roglic. If Vingegaard can drop Pog, then he can drop every human being in this world.

In my opinion it's the opposite in regards to the first part. That is more and more the final ITT will be on the horizon then more and more nervousness will be involved. That is if Rogla and Jonas will still be close. And the nervousness in my opinion will be building more on Jonases side.

As for Jonas easily dropping Rogla, that is the thing i guess, he will need to do exactly that, wanting to win the Tour 2024. If he will then good for him. If not then tough luck, as we know what to follow.
 
I think in the Dauphiné 2022 it was quite clear that Vingegaard could have dropped Roglic if he wanted to. But he was a loyal domestique, as he has always been until it turned out he was actually stronger. It's just a natural progression, not a forced one or the team holding Roglic back.

But let's be honest, has Vingegaard ever needed Kuss to pace him back to the leaders, like Roglic has several times? There were times when Roglic didn't even look like the strongest climber in his own team, let alone in the race. On real epic mountain stages he's vulnerable, just like Pogacar is actually. Visma know this, that's why not having him there at the Tour actually helped them in a way because it made the tactic much "easier": just make the race super hard on every stage. This suits Vingegaard, but not necessarily Roglic.
So that’s a no then?
 
So that’s a no then?
Most races where they rode together Vingegaard was pulling on the front for Roglic, so logically he didn't actually attack him.

That's the strange thing, Roglic fans complain about Vingegaard all the time, when in fact if one has more right to claim he's been held back by the other, surely it's Vingegaard. Short memories, I guess (unless it's for supposed injustice done to Roglic, plenty of memory for that).
 
I don't agree with this. Strade bianche would be a good training for the gravel stage of the Tour.

At least he could do milan san remo, fleche wallone and il lombardia. I see no reasons for him to do bad in these races. He can perfectly do top 5/10.

He also should try in the future the classica de SanRemco.

It would be interesting to see him descending poggio like a mad man and surprise everybody. He can descend very well.
 
I
I said this before, but vingegaard really should target Milan san Remo. He is so good in the descents, he can do something in the descent of poggio.
He can do some "surprise" on Milan san Remo, an Il lombardia. He should targets those two monuments.
I'm not completely writing one days off anymore. The things he has shown last year, seems to indicate that he doesn't need 3 weeks and several cat1 climbs to make a difference. He also has much more confidence.
 
I said this before, but vingegaard really should target Milan san Remo. He is so good in the descents, he can do something in the descent of poggio.
He can do some "surprise" on Milan san Remo, an Il lombardia. He should targets those two monuments.

MSR is a very different race than Lombardia and the long fight for position won't suit him much. He won't be able to do a Motorič descent either, so he'll probably have to have a gap over the top, which will be difficult for him to get.
 
I

I'm not completely writing one days off anymore. The things he has shown last year, seems to indicate that he doesn't need 3 weeks and several cat1 climbs to make a difference. He also has much more confidence.
I think even on the ardennes classics like amstel, fleche, liege bastogne liege or other one day races like strade bianche and classica san sebastian, he can do top 10. There's no reasons to think he can't do bad there. Probably he would be there with the best on the front, but he would lose because he is not explosive in the sprint.
 
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MSR is a very different race from Lombardia and the long fight for position won't suit him much. He won't be able to do a Motorič descent either, so he'll probably have to have a gap over the top, which will be difficult for him to get.
I don't think he could drop everybody on poggio, it's a easy climb, but i not rule out that he can descent so well like mohoric did.
 
I said this before, but vingegaard really should target Milan san Remo. He is so good in the descents, he can do something in the descent of poggio.
He can do some "surprise" on Milan san Remo, an Il lombardia. He should targets those two monuments.

He doesn't have Pogacar's explosivity...not to mention MVP. Even staying with them on Poggio is not easy and I don't think he descends good enough to beat guys like MVP or Mohoric downhill. Lombardy is the best for him. Liege and Strade are also worth giving a shot (due to cumulative elevation gain). Then again, Pogacar is looming large in these races and Vingo lacks finish-line explosivity.
 
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