Jonathan Tiernan-Locke written to by UCI, asked to explain blood values

[thehog]

JTL was training with Sky since April 2012.

 

[JimmyFingers]

He isn't a mod anymore, Jimmy brother.

Then he's being a *** pure and simple

 

[JimmyFingers]

And good, perhaps standards will improve

 

[the sceptic]

JTL was training with Sky since April 2012.

So the team with the most attention to detail cant even figure out when their own riders are dopings. That is worrying. Personally I no longer trust anyone at sky, even without evidence.

 

[MatParker117]

JTL was training with Sky since April 2012.

Garmin tested him in April (Nothing ununusal), trained with Sky in May which is pretty common for most BC affiliated riders as I believe Ed Clancy & Steven Burke were there at the time preparing for the Olympics. Sky then tested him after the world championships.

 

[JimmyFingers]

tend to agree, think Sky comes out somewhat neutral here.

I would rather spend time and resources going after the rider agent element. How deep does the rot go?

note: personally don't think Sky is more advanced than other teams with respect to recruitment etc.

I think Sky's uber-professional, meticulous, leave-no-stone-unturned PR guff gets exposed though. There was a lot of suspicion surround JTL when they signed him: late twenties, break-out season while not under BP scrutiny, and then a fat contract at the end of it. Was it 3 years he was out of the sport due to the virus? Comes back in, time is getting short to build the career, get the big contracts, win the big races, make his name. As I said, story old as time. Sky got mugged off IMO: as soon as he was riding for them there were stories about him getting ill from the training. He was mediocre to the point of invisible in the few races he did ride in 2013, classic racehorse to donkey stuff. Whether they leaked it on purpose to Walsh, or whether he picked up whispers of it when he was 'embedded' there, people at Sky must have twigged at some point surely, before news of the investigation broke.

He looks bang to rights, 2 year ban beckoning and good riddance to him.

 

[The Hitch]

As has been pointed out many times there have been many British athletes sanctioned for doping offences, I at least know we're not whiter than white. There is the little Englander attitude of some sort of moral superiority but it's now all pervasive. .

I'm not saying you were one of the people who demonstrated that attitude. It has been It has been promoted both explicitly and implicitly in the media and by commentators and cyclists and some fans, but I'm not saying everyone, nor that it was you.

 

[thehog]

Garmin tested him in April (Nothing ununusal), trained with Sky in May which is pretty common for most BC affiliated riders as I believe Ed Clancy & Steven Burke were there at the time preparing for the Olympics. Sky then tested him after the world championships.

Nothing unusual apart from his positive test whilst training with Sky?

 

[JimmyFingers]

Garmin tested him in April (Nothing ununusal), trained with Sky in May which is pretty common for most BC affiliated riders as I believe Ed Clancy & Steven Burke were there at the time preparing for the Olympics. Sky then tested him after the world championships.

There's a little semantic element here: training with Sky is actually trained with Sky. And by the time he did train with them he was already winning things on the road. And it still begs the question why he would suddenly stop when arriving at Sky if they had a hand in it: if you are blood doping or using EPO and you stop, your values plummet and it will show up as a violation. Stay on the juice and you don't get the same fluctuations. Perhaps JTL thought he's get the good stuff from Sky and could continue?

 

[pastronef]

Nothing unusual apart from his positive test whilst training with Sky?

out of comp test you mean?

 

[Catwhoorg]

NFTO (Russ and Dean Downing among them) were on Mallorca at the same time as Sky per various Twitter comments recently.

The teams apparently did one or more rides together.

Not that it has anything to do with Endura etc in 2012, but does show that Continental (or is it Pro-conti) British teams do occasionally link up with the Sky boys.

 

[JimmyFingers]

I'm not saying you were one of the people who demonstrated that attitude. It has been It has been promoted both explicitly and implicitly in the media and by commentators and cyclists and some fans, but I'm not saying everyone, nor that it was you.

I agree: there is a media mis-representation at work, helps keep the hoy poloy happy.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I think Sky's uber-professional, meticulous, leave-no-stone-unturned PR guff gets exposed though. There was a lot of suspicion surround JTL when they signed him: late twenties, break-out season while not under BP scrutiny, and then a fat contract at the end of it. Was it 3 years he was out of the sport due to the virus? Comes back in, time is getting short to build the career, get the big contracts, win the big races, make his name. As I said, story old as time. Sky got mugged off IMO: as soon as he was riding for them there were stories about him getting ill from the training. He was mediocre to the point of invisible in the few races he did ride in 2013, classic racehorse to donkey stuff. Whether they leaked it on purpose to Walsh, or whether he picked up whispers of it when he was 'embedded' there, people at Sky must have twigged at some point surely, before news of the investigation broke.

He looks bang to rights, 2 year ban beckoning and good riddance to him.

sure, but that was partly my point with the last sentence in my post. Separated PR from reality some time ago. Sky isn't any better at recruitment, training, plans and tactics when it comes to running a team. The only outstanding element is the actual performance in stage races.

 

[thehog]

NFTO (Russ and Dean Downing among them) were on Mallorca at the same time as Sky per various Twitter comments recently.

The teams apparently did one or more rides together.

Not that it has anything to do with Endura etc in 2012, but does show that Continental (or is it Pro-conti) British teams do occasionally link up with the Sky boys.

They put JTL with the Tour riders in Tenerife.

 

[JRanton]

i'd heard the same thing.

Also, http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/road/article/roa20100314-Jock-Wadley-Memorial-Road-Race-0

the guy he beat, Dan Staite, was banned for EPO and JTL smashed that race.

Interesting, thanks. Did you race against JTL? There must be some posters on here who did I imagine. It's a shame nobody tipped off UKAD like they did with Staite, or maybe someone did and he slipped the net?

 

[thehog]

They put JTL with the Tour riders in Tenerife.

Sky's April training camp

Despite having been ill after the Settimana Coppi e Bartali, the capabilities Tiernan-Locke displayed at Sky's Tenerife training camp in April were instrumental in orchestrating his move for 2013.

"I had an SRM on and we were doing all these timed efforts and tests. Tim Kerrison was there analysing all that data, doing all the blood lactate checks and all that.

"I hadn't used power in a while and it surprised me. We set off at different intervals for an hour-long climbing test. It was half of their Tour de France team and me, and although we couldn't see each other because we set off at different times, I was right up there.

"Ever since that training camp I've changed a few things; my position has changed a bit and I'm not pushing such a big gear."

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/535775/jonathan-tiernan-locke-ready-for-sky-move.html

Tiernan-Locke's 2012
Feb 9-12
Tour of the Med
1st
Feb 18-19
Tour du Haut Var
1st
Mar 3-4
Vuelta a la Region de Murcia
2nd
July 25-29
Tour Alsace
1st
August 7-11
Vuelta a Leon
6th
September 9-16
Tour of Britain

 

[Catwhoorg]

And right now the Brownlee brothers are with the Sky boys.

(they are triathletes if anyone doesn't know. Regularly win Olympic distance stuff, both medalled at London 2012 Gold and Bronze. And I think were 2nd and 4th in the World Tri Series this year)

 

[JimmyFingers]

I would hope the Brownlee's are spared suspicion: proper Yorkshire hardmen, never happier than training in the cold and wet, dominant in their sport yes but I've never heard any innuendo about them, unless we simply apply the 'they win ergo they dope' paradigm.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Sky's April training camp

Despite having been ill after the Settimana Coppi e Bartali, the capabilities Tiernan-Locke displayed at Sky's Tenerife training camp in April were instrumental in orchestrating his move for 2013.

"I had an SRM on and we were doing all these timed efforts and tests. Tim Kerrison was there analysing all that data, doing all the blood lactate checks and all that.

"I hadn't used power in a while and it surprised me. We set off at different intervals for an hour-long climbing test. It was half of their Tour de France team and me, and although we couldn't see each other because we set off at different times, I was right up there.

"Ever since that training camp I've changed a few things; my position has changed a bit and I'm not pushing such a big gear."

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/535775/jonathan-tiernan-locke-ready-for-sky-move.html

But he was winning before he trained with Sky, right? It's not as if the performance improvement started there.

 

[BroDeal]

The tragic part of this is that it did not need to happen. The Brits have discovered how to equal the performance of history's greatest dopers without doping. If only JTL had been willing to train an extra two hours a day. So sad. A career cut short because of laziness.

Brailsfraud needs to call Bruyneel. This sort of thing never happened on Bruyneel's watch.

 

[BroDeal]

"I had an SRM on and we were doing all these timed efforts and tests. Tim Kerrison was there analysing all that data, doing all the blood lactate checks and all that.

"I hadn't used power in a while and it surprised me. We set off at different intervals for an hour-long climbing test. It was half of their Tour de France team and me, and although we couldn't see each other because we set off at different times, I was right up there."

Gosh. This revolutionary training discovered by Kerrison sounds exactly like the revolutionary training used by Dr. Ferrari. Lactate tests at the top of climbs? Where are all the space age gadgets and hi tech training that none of those primitive Continentals are not smart enough to use?

 

[the sceptic]

I would hope the Brownlee's are spared suspicion: proper Yorkshire hardmen, never happier than training in the cold and wet, dominant in their sport yes but I've never heard any innuendo about them, unless we simply apply the 'they win ergo they dope' paradigm.

Hard work, british, trains harder than anyone else, no evidence.

Nothing to worry about Jimmy. Doping doesnt work in triathlon anyway.

 

[The Hitch]

I would hope the Brownlee's are spared suspicion: proper Yorkshire hardmen, never happier than training in the cold and wet,

Anti doping can never succeed until people drop the mentality that the above is any sort of argument for cleanliness.

Alexander Vinokourov was from ****ing Kazakhstan. Guy did't care if it was wet middle English autumn or Siberian winter snowstorm. He still trained in summer clothing, took ice showers and filled his bidons full of whiskey. He came back from a horrific injury that the doctors told him he would never recover from and told him to retire, to win the olympics barely a year later.

Dude also doped so hard even Pat Mcquaid considered it excessive and regularly bought and sold races like it was ebay.

Everytime anyone tries to explain an athletes performance with - he is really dedicated and trains really hard and you wouldnt believe how tough he is bla bla bla bla, that makes me 10x more suspicious.

Every athlete at that level has insane dedication, mental toughness and trains so hard the body may suffer in later years. They wouldnt be at the top if that wasn't the case. No need to put down everyone elses dedication. That suggests trying to hide something.

 

[BroDeal]

As has been pointed out many times there have been many British athletes sanctioned for doping offences, I at least know we're not whiter than white. There is the little Englander attitude of some sort of moral superiority but it's now all pervasive.

Luckily Walsh has written "Sky's Kampf" to explain British superiority over the mongrel countries.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Anti doping can never succeed until people drop the mentality that the above is any sort of argument for cleanliness.

Alexander Vinokourov was from ****ing Kazakhstan. Guy did't care if it was wet middle English autumn or Siberian winter snowstorm. He still trained in summer clothing, took ice showers and filled his bidons full of whiskey.

Dude also doped so hard even Pat Mcquaid considered it excessive and regularly bought and sold races like it was ebay.

Everytime anyone tries to explain an athletes performance with - he is really dedicated and trains really hard and you wouldnt believe how tough he is bla bla bla bla, that makes me 10x more suspicious.

Every athlete at that level has insane dedication, mental toughness and trains so hard the body may suffer in later years. They wouldnt be at the top if that wasn't the case. No need to put down everyone elses dedication. That suggests trying to hide something.

It was more an honest 'I hope to god they haven't' and that I hadn't heard the slightest whiff of doubt directed at them