Jonathan Tiernan-Locke written to by UCI, asked to explain blood values

[SundayRider]

this is what needs drilled into....

change of culture my ar*e...if that is his excuse and it is rubbish...the whole sky team must know...where's their page ripping disgust now??? They must know this now...

and if its true then (well apart from it not actually scientifically working for him) where's there nutella avoiding patter now? Hammered a couple of days before the worlds? Where, who with how much....

Stannard was going well...were you both out on a bender???

The nutella stuff makes you laugh, Kennaugh on Twitter the other day was saying how much he loves Turkish Delight...

 

[gillan1969]

i often read 'strawman' in posts but here it appears members are clutching at straws hoping that JTL has much to tell about team sky and when banned will
be eager to do so

JTL did what he did to move on up................. it is unlikely that team sky were involved

Mark L

i take it you also swallowed the "one rougue reporter" defence, from News International, of Clive Goodman

i wonder who JTL's Mulcaire is???

 

[ebandit]

read

i take it you also swallowed the "one rougue reporter" defence, from News International, of Clive Goodman

i wonder who JTL's Mulcaire is???

did not read that............just my observation JTL excelling briefly with endura
then.................................

and yes! he is a team sky rider but to say sky are involved id his 'doping'
..................

Mark L

 

[gillan1969]

did not read that............just my observation JTL excelling briefly with endura
then.................................

and yes! he is a team sky rider but to say sky are involved id his 'doping'
..................

Mark L

as a brief recap..Sky's major shareholder managed to get through a whole criminal trial with that defence much to every 'thinking' persons incredulity....

of course, as eventually transpires, the whole organisation is in it up to, and beyond, their necks....

And Goodman didn't squeal...although has subsequently become a bit 'tetchy' when Coulson (for JTL read Sir Dave) reneged on his promises of financial support.....of course his silence is now worth nothing as we all know the truth..

let's see what proportion of his contract JTL gets to keep....that might tell us something

 

[Biggut]

He got caught doping whilst with Sky after Endura handed him over.
QUOTE]

The only thing I have seen says with Sky for the last quarter. That is October, November, December. I thought that the dubious profile results were supposed to have been September, when he was still with Brian Smith, a man who has less than a pure personal record on exposing doping.

 

[kingsouth]

The nutella stuff makes you laugh, Kennaugh on Twitter the other day was saying how much he loves Turkish Delight...

Yeah, it reminded me of this. http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/photos/inside-the-team-sky-service-course/115740

 

[gillan1969]

Yeah, it reminded me of this. http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/photos/inside-the-team-sky-service-course/115740

brilliant...

 

[Benotti69]

The only thing I have seen says with Sky for the last quarter. That is October, November, December. I thought that the dubious profile results were supposed to have been September, when he was still with Brian Smith, a man who has less than a pure personal record on exposing doping.

His anomaly was during the world championships when he was with TeamGB (Brailsford) which is Sky.

As Gillian has said, how Sky treat him will tell us all we need to know.

 

[happychappy]

Yeah, it reminded me of this. http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/photos/inside-the-team-sky-service-course/115740

Anyone that likes that **** is delusional.

 

[Benotti69]

Anyone that likes that **** is delusional.

recently traces of faeces have been found in nutella. So it truly is sh!t.

 

[Biggut]

Bennotti that is crap. Are you saying that if Cavendish or Cummings had been caught doping at the worlds then it would be Team Sky who were to blame?

It's plain stupid.

Also it's one thing to sugest that a team should know from having somebody long term in their control and being able to monitor them over a prolonged period. But to try to make out that you should be able to spot doping that is uncovered by a passport violation after being with somebody for a couple of weeks max, most likely whilst they are consistently doping and keeping their level the same, is ridiculous.

Is it your belief that riders are kept under 24 hour observation by teams and governing bodies. How would you suggest they would spot the doping on such a short term basis?

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Are you saying that if Cavendish or Cummings had been caught doping at the worlds then it would be Team Sky who were to blame?

I'm pretty sure that if this happens then Benotti will blame Sky!

Of course individual riders never dope. It's only those nasty teams that make them do it.

 

[gooner]

Bennotti that is crap. Are you saying that if Cavendish or Cummings had been caught doping at the worlds then it would be Team Sky who were to blame?

This isn't the first time Benotti has said this and I pointed out similar before.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1378592&postcount=752

 

[Benotti69]

Bennotti that is crap. Are you saying that if Cavendish or Cummings had been caught doping at the worlds then it would be Team Sky who were to blame?

It's plain stupid.

Also it's one thing to sugest that a team should know from having somebody long term in their control and being able to monitor them over a prolonged period. But to try to make out that you should be able to spot doping that is uncovered by a passport violation after being with somebody for a couple of weeks max, most likely whilst they are consistently doping and keeping their level the same, is ridiculous.

Is it your belief that riders are kept under 24 hour observation by teams and governing bodies. How would you suggest they would spot the doping on such a short term basis?

This isn't the first time Benotti has said this and I pointed out similar before.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1378592&postcount=752

I dont see any difference in TeamGB/Sky.

Team Garmin spend 500,000 a year keeping their riders under the doping radar. TeamGB/Sky are not doing the same?

 

[ebandit]

hard

I dont see any difference in TeamGB/Sky.

Team Garmin spend 500,000 a year keeping their riders under the doping radar. TeamGB/Sky are not doing the same?

hardly...........all team GB riders don't ride for team sky ..........and team sky have foreign riders ineligible for team GB.............different teams

only linked by management personnel filling more than 1 role and similar funding

you CHOOSE not to see a difference..............I see no ships!

Mark L

 

[gooner]

I dont see any difference in TeamGB/Sky.

Team Garmin spend 500,000 a year keeping their riders under the doping radar. TeamGB/Sky are not doing the same?

His suspicious test happened when he wasn't officially at Sky and it seems his baseline value ones up to February are when he was indeed with them.

So will you blame Sky if Cav, Cummings or Fenn get busted during a similar period if it happens in years to come?

 

[MartinGT]

His suspicious test happened when he wasn't officially at Sky and it seems his baseline value ones up to February are when he was indeed with them.

So will you blame Sky if Cav, Cummings or Fenn get busted during a similar period if it happens in years to come?

There you are

He was training with them throughout the year and under the watchful eye of Brailsford.

There is too much murky waters between Sky and GB. Sutton, Brailsford, Kerrison etc etc, too much and thats the problem.

What would people think if Wiggins got caught? The general public soon start to question the medals won on the track.

Brailsfraud will be sweating about the JTL thing, thats why they are quick to wash their hands of him and say he was still an Endura rider.

Its messy, very messy.

This is a team that shout out that the look at every minute detail, yet don't seem to have tested a rider that they are willing to spend thousands and thousands on. What a complete joke.

 

[gillan1969]

His suspicious test happened when he wasn't officially at Sky and it seems his baseline value ones up to February are when he was indeed with them.

So will you blame Sky if Cav, Cummings or Fenn get busted during a similar period if it happens in years to come?

you're comparing apples an oranges

guys who are riding with established big teams are joining GB and going to a similar organisation i.e. any program they might be on (and I am not saying they are on one of course) would be intrinsically linked to their team race program...which are all the big races e.g Cippollini's program from his stand out season in 2002. JTL was 'moving on up'. He was riding the Worlds as opposed to the smaller races he had been riding with Endura i.e. so whatever he did was certainly specific to the GB/Sky race program..the question then is how much did they know about his other program?

 

[ebandit]

Jtl

obviously one must wonder why team sky employed JTL without serious testing............not many knowledgable fans would have put £ on him being clean

but again the differences between Team GB and Team Sky are well defined

as to the BIG IF wiggo was caught doping.............come back IF it happens

Mark L

 

[MartinGT]

obviously one must wonder why team sky employed JTL without serious testing............not many knowledgable fans would have put £ on him being clean

but again the differences between Team GB and Team Sky are well defined

as to the BIG IF wiggo was caught doping.............come back IF it happens

Mark L

I am playing devils advocate here eBandit. Just think about it.

The highlighted bit for me is the bit IMO that shows Sky are all hot air when it comes to minute detail.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

This is a team that shout out that the look at every minute detail, yet don't seem to have tested a rider that they are willing to spend thousands and thousands on. What a complete joke.

Apparently Sky relied on testing that Garmin had done, which seems an odd thing to do. I'd like to rely on testing I'd commissioned rather than something done for someone else.

If there was some team-level collusion with JTL then we have the bizarre situation of Sky/GB helping JTL dope, Sky signing him and then overseeing him not doping and hence being cr*p.

I wouldn't have signed JTL if I'd been at Sky, as his career progression looks decidedly dodgy, albeit at sub-Froome levels in absolute terms, and he was thus "high risk". Maybe they knew he was dodgy and wanted to be able to sack him to demonstrate their credentials, knowing that the "He was at Endura, guv" defence would satisfy the masses?

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

you're comparing apples an oranges

guys who are riding with established big teams are joining GB and going to a similar organisation i.e. any program they might be on (and I am not saying they are on one of course) would be intrinsically linked to their team race program...which are all the big races e.g Cippollini's program from his stand out season in 2002. JTL was 'moving on up'. He was riding the Worlds as opposed to the smaller races he had been riding with Endura i.e. so whatever he did was certainly specific to the GB/Sky race program..the question then is how much did they know about his other program?

The point is that Gooner was responding specifically to Benotti to whom "GB = Sky = Sir Dave = bad = guilty of doping" suffices as a framework for reasoning. Thus, a more nuanced, coherent position such as the one you put forward would be a waste of time.

 

[Benotti69]

His suspicious test happened when he wasn't officially at Sky and it seems his baseline value ones up to February are when he was indeed with them.

Officially he wasn't at sky, but unofficially he was.

So will you blame Sky if Cav, Cummings or Fenn get busted during a similar period if it happens in years to come?

It depends if their test is while they are on a teamGB training camp or with TeamGB for a championship. To blame Sky's personal, who are all teamGB people, meh dont see the difference!

But to compare Cav, Cummings, Fenn with JTL's situation is a fail.

JTL trained a lot with Sky in 2012. Cav, Cummins and Fenn were not in the same position of moving from a conti up to a WT team.

 

[Benotti69]

The point is that Gooner was responding specifically to Benotti to whom "GB = Sky = Sir Dave = bad = guilty of doping" suffices as a framework for reasoning. Thus, a more nuanced, coherent position such as the one you put forward would be a waste of time.

TeamGB Brailsford = Sky Brailford.

Sorry you cannot see it.

TeamGB has a link on its page for Sky FFS!

 

[gooner]

Officially he wasn't at sky, but unofficially he was.

Here we have it, Sky/GB had JTL dope for the worlds and then reined him back in for the new season after signing a big fat contract. That's great logic. If that's what you want to believe, off with you.

It depends if their test is while they are on a teamGB training camp or with TeamGB for a championship. To blame Sky's personal, who are all teamGB people, meh dont see the difference!

But to compare Cav, Cummings, Fenn with JTL's situation is a fail.

JTL trained a lot with Sky in 2012. Cav, Cummins and Fenn were not in the same position of moving from a conti up to a WT team.

Hold on.

You said this period is specifically Sky and used the Team GB association to prop up your argument. Nothing about beforehand.

So the question is a valid one in the way you put your point across. You're spinning it to further a narrative of a doping program.

I don't deny Sky deserve criticism for their ignorance in particular of the l'Equipe article and in comparison to what Garmin did.