Jonathan Tiernan-Locke written to by UCI, asked to explain blood values

[thehog]

But if he was impressing Kerrison with power numbers, he would have been doping to do so. And would have had to continue to dope to keep said power numbers (values) up.

This is how I read The Hog's post.

It looks to me like a simple misunderstanding.

Correct. Not sure why there would be confusion. I don't think what I'm stating is controversial. Fairly straight forward.

 

[Race Radio]

But if he was impressing Kerrison with power numbers, he would have been doping to do so. And would have had to continue to dope to keep said power numbers (values) up.

This is how I read The Hog's post.

It looks to me like a simple misunderstanding.

No missunderstanding

Sky were testing his blood after the Worlds when he wasn't a Sky rider. They knew his values.

How did they know his values if Manchester was his first test?.......oh, I forgot, Sky was already running his doping program. Sorry, hard to keep up with all the theories

 

[Race Radio]

But if he was impressing Kerrison with power numbers, he would have been doping to do so. And would have had to continue to dope to keep said power numbers (values) up.

This is how I read The Hog's post.

It looks to me like a simple misunderstanding.

Blood values are a common phase.....power values? Not common

Did they do a power test in Manchester too?

 

[thehog]

Blood values are a common phase.....power values? Not common

Did they do a power test in Manchester too?

I believe you may be reaching on this one.

Blood values on their own don't tell you a lot. A one off test very little.

I agree with JV on this one. You need power, lactate and blood tests. Considering no one knew of the post worlds Manchester test who's to say there're wasn't another prior?

But to the point, power as well as blood is very common forms of testing. Blood alone tells you not a lot as it's a snap shot in time and could mean anything. That's why the passport is longitude in nature.

JV agrees.

Jonathan Vaughters @Vaughters · 6h
@jeffvolkmer @SSbike @RushianLFC @notnix so, good test, good race results, normal hematology 4/5 times in the year = clean rider.

Jonathan Vaughters @Vaughters · 6h
@jeffvolkmer @SSbike @RushianLFC @notnix we try and triangulate physiological (power, lactate) profile with hematology and race results.

To the previous post; Sky were investing £400,000 into JTL. His power numbers, lactate and training camps must have impressed to take him from £40k to £400,000.

 

[sittingbison]

steady gentle(wo)men, steady,

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If you break these rules, you're risking being banned. Think before you post.

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cheers
bison

 

[stutue]

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/08/the-secret-pro-transfer-season/

Looks like that SecretPro page has been wiped off the face of the planet.

Nervous lawyers?

 

[RownhamHill]

He was given a Sky SRM in April and supplied all his power numbers to Kerrison from that point onwards, from the camps and otherwise.

Hi Thehog, could you clarify the claim that he was given a power meter by Sky in April, that he kept in order to supply all his power data to Sky for the rest of the year (and did that include in the ToB when he was racing Sky and beating them?). It's quite an important claim I think, but doesn't seem to be backed up by what you've quoted so far:

. . . the capabilities Tiernan-Locke displayed at Sky's Tenerife training camp in April were instrumental in orchestrating his move for 2013.

"I had an SRM on and we were doing all these timed efforts and tests. Tim Kerrison was there analysing all that data, doing all the blood lactate checks and all that.

. . .

"Ever since that training camp I've changed a few things; my position has changed a bit and I'm not pushing such a big gear."

I've added some italics for emphasis, but it's pretty clear from that particular source that he is talking about having his power taken and analysed by Sky in April, and that data was instrumental in his move, but it makes no mention of him keeping the power meter, or Sky continuing to analyse his data afterwards. In fact when he explicitly names the things he's changed he doesn't mention continuing to ride with power at all, but mentions position and gears.

So, I'm wondering if you could clarify the source of your wider claim that Sky analysed all his power after April? Thanks.

 

[SundayRider]

That doesn't sound very plausible.

So if he wasn't taking EPO earlier in the 2012 what explains his results?

 

[jens_attacks]

hog's show here is the best
haut var and tour med at 20 hemoglobin and still blames team sky
i wonder what hemoglobin had normal in 2013...around 14? he should have stayed at sky all time time at 18 hemoglobin imo, best case scenario, found a relative in the andes and get a prescription from uci. with the retics though, kind of hard to change something, he acted like an amateur.

good luck for us that saint brian smith comes at mtn chubeka

 

[del1962]

I was having a llok at the Brian Smith thread

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=1049654#post1049654

Darryl Webster seems to defend him

Either he is extremely naive (not knowing JTL doping) and not knowing Lance doping or he is full of bs

 

[BYOP88]

I was having a llok at the Brian Smith thread

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=1049654#post1049654

Darryl Webster seems to defend him

Either he is extremely naive (not knowing JTL doping) and not knowing Lance doping or he is full of bs

Smith was a full time Lance defender before Lance admitted. Smith is part of cycling's problems and needs to be ushered out of the sport.

 

[M Sport]

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/08/the-secret-pro-transfer-season/

Looks like that SecretPro page has been wiped off the face of the planet.

Nervous lawyers?

I think it's about time they gave the TSP gig away, the original TSP hasn't written an article for nearly a year. It will be interesting to see what is removed if it pops back up.

 

[jens_attacks]

I was having a llok at the Brian Smith thread

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=1049654#post1049654

Darryl Webster seems to defend him

Either he is extremely naive (not knowing JTL doping) and not knowing Lance doping or he is full of bs

"Quelli che fanno gli angioletti sono i peggio"
Riccardo Ricco.

it's people like this smith,garmin once upon the time,htc-colombia and other mostly anglo people in the sport who piszes me off the most with their clean lies
that's why people like oleg tinkov is something refreshing for this sport. i just hope ricky ricco will be allowed next year back in the peloton.

 

[Catwhoorg]

There was more than one sample that required calibration explanations, and they were tests conducted at GTs.

I believe DW is referring to

And the similar ones posted for Ryder (Sorry don't have a link for those), but Obviously there is a question about Wiggo's Sion reading, which I do think is within the range of variation one may expect fro different labs, instruments etc. DW I believe does not

For Ryder I recall two issues, the first being the 'machine error' for the initial reading, the second the large difference in ret% between the last two samples (taken either the same day I think or at most a day apart)



The problem is I think a matter of scale.
Looking at this historical off score set

Kind of puts Wiggo's variation into perspective.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Oh and back on JTL:
155 ?

LANCE FREAKING ARMSTRONG's worst offscore was 112 on his comeback.

JTL was taking the **** if he thought he could get away with that,

 

[SundayRider]

Oh and back on JTL:
155 ?

LANCE FREAKING ARMSTRONG's worst offscore was 112 on his comeback.

JTL was taking the **** if he thought he could get away with that,

Lance had much more experience and better help at 'managing' these things didn't he.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

And this:

Still, it was Vaughters himself who received a fright at the pre-Tour medical tests, as his hematocrit posted a 51 percent reading, above the UCI's limit of 50 percent, but still under his special dispensation of 52 percent. (Frequent testing had shown that Vaughters - like many good climbers - have naturally high hematocrit levels and they are granted dispensation from doctors.)

"I'd never tested (at a race) above 50 percent, except before the start of the '99 Tour," he said. "I told the team doctor 'don't worry, I've got a certificate, I've got a hall-pass for this'," he recalled. "But the doctor said it wasn't me they were worried about, it was that the whole team was very close (to the 50 percent limit)."
Jon Vaughters in his post-racing role as director of the TIAA-CREF team
Photo ©: Beth Seliga

But that year, it is now widely accepted even by the UCI, according to Vaughters, that its testing apparatus was calibrated somewhat high. He said this is not that uncommon, given that the machines are carried from race-to-race, through baggage handling and screening, and while efforts are made to ensure they are accurately calibrated, "there is some slop room" for variations.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=features/2005/vaughters_1999

 

[the sceptic]

hog's show here is the best
haut var and tour med at 20 hemoglobin and still blames team sky
i wonder what hemoglobin had normal in 2013...around 14? he should have stayed at sky all time time at 18 hemoglobin imo, best case scenario, found a relative in the andes and get a prescription from uci. with the retics though, kind of hard to change something, he acted like an amateur.

good luck for us that saint brian smith comes at mtn chubeka

yeah he was riding like Riis back then. I wonder what sky were thinking?

"hey maybe this guy is clean, imagine how good he will be if we can get him on our program" morons.

 

[thehog]

So if he wasn't taking EPO earlier in the 2012 what explains his results?

Winning a 77km stage in February requires EPO? News to me.

His Worlds result was off the scale. I've always said this. His biggest result by far and his blood results just released demonstrate this.

BC/Sky have some explaining to do. Because they tested him one day after a huge effort of the Worlds and he was still "high". And they still pushed on with his contract!

They had his power readings and blood results after a 260km world road race.

What does that tell you about Sky?

 

[TourOfSardinia]

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/08/the-secret-pro-transfer-season/

Looks like that SecretPro page has been wiped off the face of the planet.

Nervous lawyers?

For our eyes only

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...om.au/2014/08/the-secret-pro-transfer-season/

wfm

 

[Race Radio]

JTL was taking the **** if he thought he could get away with that,

This

It is not like he did not have guidance. Andrew McQuaid is his agent. How is it that Andrew does tell him how ridiculous defending this would be? ......but then again given how clueless his doping program was perhaps we should not be surprised he was stupid enough to think he could get away with it

 

[Benotti69]

"Quelli che fanno gli angioletti sono i peggio"
Riccardo Ricco.

it's people like this smith,garmin once upon the time,htc-colombia and other mostly anglo people in the sport who piszes me off the most with their clean lies
that's why people like oleg tinkov is something refreshing for this sport. i just hope ricky ricco will be allowed next year back in the peloton.

the sport is huge trouble if Tinkov is something refreshing!!!!!

 

[SundayRider]

Winning a 77km stage in February requires EPO? News to me.

His Worlds result was off the scale. I've always said this. His biggest result by far and his blood results just released demonstrate this.

BC/Sky have some explaining to do. Because they tested him one day after a huge effort of the Worlds and he was still "high". And they still pushed on with his contract!

They had his power readings and blood results after a 260km world road race.

What does that tell you about Sky?

Yes I sort of agree, however it was his early season performances that got him noticed by Sky wasn't it.

 

[The Hitch]

lol did secret pro really say he knew tl was doping because he was so good

From the same guy who's defended quite a few guys who had transformations 10 x greater than tl's

 

[King Boonen]

Yes I sort of agree, however it was his early season performances that got him noticed by Sky wasn't it.

I believe Hogs point is that after that performance and looking at the data they now had they should have been questioning how he did it not just turning a blind eye and getting him signed up.