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Juan Ayuso discussion thread

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scribers

scribers

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Logic-is-your-friend said:
Well, he knew what he signed up for. He chose the big bucks in a super team with Pogacar. If he wanted leadership, he could have gone to basically any other team. But this was his choice, and Pogacar is the undisputed leader, so he should be expected to do what he is paid for. Currently he is not better than Almeida, so there is no reason for him to weasel out of his duties. His choice, his money. So if people, fans, teammates don't like that, there is little you can do or say about it. He is a big talent, but he is not as big a talent as Pogacar, Evenepoel or Vingegaard. I don't think he should be treated as a chicken with the golden eggs. He could also have told the team it was too soon for him to ride the TDF and ask for leadership in the Vuelta, but he also didn't do that.
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Apparently they cannot specify such details in a contract. At least that what Broe said today. He should know as he’s a trained attorney and involved in teams (visma)
 
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Logic-is-your-friend

Logic-is-your-friend

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scribers said:
Apparently they cannot specify such details in a contract. At least that what Broe said today. He should know as he’s a trained attorney and involved in teams (visma)
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Sure, then neither does Almeida have to work. Let's see how that goes.
It's easy, if the team finds he doesn't hold up his end and do the job they ask of him and pay him for, they also don't have to send him to races to begin with, and they can just keep him home. I wonder if he likes that better. Legally they only have to offer him a place in a team once every 2 months. The big issue is when the team just lets him do this stuff without consequence, because that's just opening Pandora's box. If i were Almeida, i'd tell Matxin "deal with it, or i'll ride for myself from now on as well". Easy.
 
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Unterlenkerfahrend

Unterlenkerfahrend

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Shaping up to be my favorite rider for this Tour. I need all the drama and disharmony in UAE that I can get.
The way he was hiding at the back of the group like a pupil trying to dodge the teachers glance in order to avoid being asked questions in class. Hilarious stuff. Almeida gesturing at him to get his fat ass at the front into the wind might be my favorite moment already in this tour.

It's also good information for opposing GC guys that they'll have a breather once Ayuso is forced to take over because you can be sure as heck that he'll save his legs and put in some half arsed turns. Saved Roglic yesterday.
 
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Didinho

Didinho

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Everyone saying Almeida was stronger than Ayuso. Isn’t it normal that Ayuso was in the back because Almeida’s pace was too hard? Those pulls were really hard. He needed a moment to recover and after he came to the front. It’s not like he refused to work. Almeida decided to take shorter pulls because of the headwind and made sure Ayuso knew.

We’ll see in the next mountain stages. Expecting Yates better again, he had a bad day and said himself to work earlier. Pogi wanted a fast pace the whole Galibier.

Edit: when Almeida started pulling (6,8km to top) Ayuso was behind Carapaz in 20th position or so. He first pulled 1km and when Mas dropped Ayuso was still in 15th at the end. Couple corners later (5,5km to top) Ayuso said something in the radio, Almeida looked behind immediately and slowed down so he could gain positions.
Ayuso just got with the others in front as Yates started pulling and he took over from him.
 
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topcat

topcat

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Unterlenkerfahrend said:
Shaping up to be my favorite rider for this Tour. I need all the drama and disharmony in UAE that I can get.
The way he was hiding at the back of the group like a pupil trying to dodge the teachers glance in order to avoid being asked questions in class. Hilarious stuff. Almeida gesturing at him to get his fat ass at the front into the wind might be my favorite moment already in this tour.

It's also good information for opposing GC guys that they'll have a breather once Ayuso is forced to take over because you can be sure as heck that he'll save his legs and put in some half arsed turns. Saved Roglic yesterday.
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You could see Roglic as he was dropping past even Ayuso saying to Ayuso "you're not going to get away with it any longer, get to the front. Do it for me, Juan".
 
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Lequack

Lequack

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I mean who know what they promised Ayuso for this Tour, if he was taken strictly as a helper then there is no debate. But if he was promised a free role or just stay on the GC for as long as possible type of deal, then I can see his frustration, even though they have a bigger goal obviously.

But anyhow, I think yesterday could've been played better. Have Almeida and Yates pace as they did, but make Ayuso attack a few km from the top, and UAE and Pog then just mark anyone following. Pog can still attack from the same point he did later. Ayso was clearly in good shape, and would be a lot more motivated to attack than to just set the tempo. If he gets caught at least they gave hi ma shot, if he doesn't, even better. It worked out yesterday because Pog was so strong, but it could've been played better, and it would give Ayuso more motivation.
 
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scribers

scribers

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Lequack said:
I mean who know what they promised Ayuso for this Tour, if he was taken strictly as a helper then there is no debate. But if he was promised a free role or just stay on the GC for as long as possible type of deal, then I can see his frustration, even though they have a bigger goal obviously.

But anyhow, I think yesterday could've been played better. Have Almeida and Yates pace as they did, but make Ayuso attack a few km from the top, and UAE and Pog then just mark anyone following. Pog can still attack from the same point he did later. Ayso was clearly in good shape, and would be a lot more motivated to attack than to just set the tempo. If he gets caught at least they gave hi ma shot, if he doesn't, even better. It worked out yesterday because Pog was so strong, but it could've been played better, and it would give Ayuso more motivation.
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I’m not sure they can trust Ayuso’s in-race assessment of his own potential given his want to swing around the back yet never becoming unmoored by given pace.

It does sound like a good tactic in theory to me
 
T

Top Climber

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Lequack said:
I mean who know what they promised Ayuso for this Tour, if he was taken strictly as a helper then there is no debate. But if he was promised a free role or just stay on the GC for as long as possible type of deal, then I can see his frustration, even though they have a bigger goal obviously.

But anyhow, I think yesterday could've been played better. Have Almeida and Yates pace as they did, but make Ayuso attack a few km from the top, and UAE and Pog then just mark anyone following. Pog can still attack from the same point he did later. Ayso was clearly in good shape, and would be a lot more motivated to attack than to just set the tempo. If he gets caught at least they gave hi ma shot, if he doesn't, even better. It worked out yesterday because Pog was so strong, but it could've been played better, and it would give Ayuso more motivation.
Click to expand...

That would have been the best tactic, when Jorgenson is dropped from the front group and Vingegaard is isolated, it was the time to attack him and Vingeggard would have to work facing the wind or if he decides not to go out on the attack and lets Ayuso go alone, Pogacar could still launch his attack in the last kilometer and join Ayuso on the descent.

On the other hand, I remember an anecdote that David de la Cruz told when he was in the UAE team and Fabio Aru was the leader and he got angry with Pogacar because he didn't help him. These things always happen in teams because talented young riders have their own ambitions, as also happened in the SKY team when Froome attacked and from the radio they told him to stop because Wiggins was the leader .........
 
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memyselfandI

Jun 4, 2009
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ice&fire said:
Pog lost his tyrant aura with his defeat two years ago
Jonas has lost it with his injury this year
We need a new villain in town
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This is it. The whole scam is just them UAE's making storylines for the netflix saga, wiping that table too from the royalties share. Coming season episodes 100% sure. Get your tickets now. :tearsofjoy:

Or maybe it's a real golden egg and Ayuso ruins the team balance in a way that creates unpredictable race.

Yeah I'm already reaching saturation point for this Michael Schumacheresque Pogi-fantasy, beautiful and happy perfection. :rolleyes:
 
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zekance

zekance

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Top Climber said:
On the other hand, I remember an anecdote that David de la Cruz told when he was in the UAE team and Fabio Aru was the leader and he got angry with Pogacar because he didn't help him. These things always happen in teams because talented young riders have their own ambitions...
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Are we really comparing Pogačar to Aru here?

The only time Pogačar and Aru raced together while David de la Cruz was at UAE was at 2020 TDF and Pogačar was no.1 in that race and if I remember correctly he won that race while Aru DNF. They never raced togather since.

Prior to that TDF they only raced together twice. Vuelta Algavre 2019 (Pogačar 1st, Aru 29th) and Vuelta 2019 (Pogačar 3rd - if he didn't wait for Aru on stage 7 he could have finished 2nd, Aru DNF).
 
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Miha81

Miha81

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topt

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Top Climber said:
That would have been the best tactic, when Jorgenson is dropped from the front group and Vingegaard is isolated, it was the time to attack him and Vingeggard would have to work facing the wind or if he decides not to go out on the attack and lets Ayuso go alone, Pogacar could still launch his attack in the last kilometer and join Ayuso on the descent.

On the other hand, I remember an anecdote that David de la Cruz told when he was in the UAE team and Fabio Aru was the leader and he got angry with Pogacar because he didn't help him. These things always happen in teams because talented young riders have their own ambitions, as also happened in the SKY team when Froome attacked and from the radio they told him to stop because Wiggins was the leader .........
Click to expand...
when you hav a Pog as a leader they shouldnt; Pogacar was clearly the better rider than Aru, Ayuso is not even close to Pog
 
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staubsauger

staubsauger

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The best tactics would be to let Pogačar attack a bit earlier to test waters regarding Vingegaards strength. If the Dane follows let Ayuso join them and then he works for Pogačar, while riding himself away from Evenepoel for the podium spot.

If Pogačar is significantly stronger than Ayuso he just attacks and rides away, while Ayuso keeps going to stay away from Evenepoel & Roglic!
 
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SafeBet

SafeBet

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zekance said:
The only time Pogačar and Aru raced together while David de la Cruz was at UAE was at 2020 TDF and Pogačar was no.1 in that race and if I remember correctly he won that race while Aru DNF. They never raced togather since.
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The whole world knew Pogacar would lead the team but UAE kept spreading the co-captain BS and Aru himself might have bought it.
So I wouldn't be entirely surprised if De la Cruz is telling the truth.

BTW Aru abandoned after being dropped in a flat stage.
 
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